Mixed doubles - the most unlikely pairings pre-1968

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

 The bridge testing with TWO double headed Kings light engine was in 1933.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Bridge testing was a different matter of course.  There is a photo somewhere of a bridge being tested by four 'Kings' (2x2 coupled on adjacent lines) and that too was in the 1930s.  The bridge test and would of course be specially authorised by Notice - not to be confused with normal working and definitely not to be confused with normal route restrictions in terms of various Classes of locos being allowed to work coupled together.  And do we know if the 'Kings were allowed to work coupled in order to reach the bridge in question?

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

.  There is a photo somewhere of a bridge being tested by four 'Kings' (2x2 coupled on adjacent lines) and that too was in the 1930s.

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwro1578.htm

Edited July 16, 2019 by melmerby

[pH]

I've sometimes wondered what happened if bridges failed such tests!

[Titan]

42 minutes ago, pH said:

I've sometimes wondered what happened if bridges failed such tests!

 

I would imagine they are just deflection tests to ensure that reality matches design. The bigger the weight the less the % error in the measured deflection. A bridge that failed such a test would still be a very long way from suffering an immediate catastrophic failure, but may require strengthening in order to achieve a sufficiently low deflection to avoid eventual fatigue failure under normal use. Plus of course serious words would be had with the engineers...

[jamie92208]

5 hours ago, melmerby said:

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwro1578.htm

The whole episode is well covered in O S Nock's, Steam Railways in Retrospect. There is a chapter on the work of the Bridge Stress Committee IIRC. At the time the new pair of GWR running lines south from Birmingham had just been completed and they used the 2 pairs of Kings for the job, each bridge was, I think, tested at 3 different speeds. Nock was there to watch.  It's a very good read.

 

Jamie

Edited July 16, 2019 by jamie92208

[Norton961]

If you want lots of locos, Crewe works would regularly send 2, 3 or 4 locos coupled together from Crewe to Whitchurch where the locos and bearings would be checked before going back to Crewe. The combinations would include B5, 8F, Rebuilt Scots, original Patriot, Duchesses, Princesses, WD.

 

David

[LMS2968]

Do you mean Whitmoor, not Whitchurch?

[jonny777]

This is a screen grab from the Marsden Rail Vol 3 video at Carlisle, and has always brought a smile to me. 

 

It shows a class 20 assisting an ailing 40 on the Royal Scot, passing Kingmoor. The 20 even has the Royal Scot headboard attached somehow under the cab window. 

 

 

 

[stewartingram]

I was at Everton crossing one miserable grey day, up on the footbridge, long since removed. Gates were closed, the down fast peg was pulled off, and we looked towards Sandy. A train came round the bend in the distance, we could hear it was a Deltic (lovely), but couldn't make out the shape (no lights or full yellow ends in those days). It made its way towards us, until at some point we could see the recognisable shape at the front of..............a Brush 2 ! Going at a pace it was too, with the Deltic sounding lovely....I've often wondered why it was there on the front of a long passenger rake.

 

Stewart

[melmerby]

7 hours ago, LMS2968 said:

Do you mean Whitmoor, not Whitchurch?

Why would LMS locos be going to Surrey?

Whitchurch is 13 miles from Crewe on the ex LNWR line to Shrewsbury

[LMS2968]

Whitmoor Summit was about ten miles south of Crewe on the WCML and was the usual first point of test runs, with several locos coupled together. On arrival, they would enter a siding and fitters check that all was well, bearings cool, etc., then they would return to the works for another check over before beginning running-in turns, usually from one of the Crewe sheds.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, LMS2968 said:

Whitmoor Summit was about ten miles south of Crewe on the WCML and was the usual first point of test runs, with several locos coupled together. On arrival, they would enter a siding and fitters check that all was well, bearings cool, etc., then they would return to the works for another check over before beginning running-in turns, usually from one of the Crewe sheds.

Try Whitmore!

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=52.9605&lon=-2.3053&layers=168&right=BingSat

 

Use of the Shrewsbury line for ex works running is well documented, so I assume Whitchurch as a suitable run was perfectly logical. There was even an engine shed & turntable there.

[LMS2968]

2 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Try Whitmore!

 

Could be. I'm an engineer: spelling was never my strong point!

[Dunsignalling]

Not a loco in sight, but I reckon this qualifies as a "mixed double". It represents a rather charming "prototype for everything" anyhow.

 

I yesterday enjoyed a couple of round trips on the Seaton Tramway - commencing and ending under cover at the very impressive terminal building that opened (I think) last year.

 

Within the terminal, there are a number of screens on the main wall showing adverts, timetable info and old footage of the line, both in tramway days and during its previous incarnation as an ex-LSWR branch. 

 

One grainy but very interesting clip showed a Gloucester "bubble car" (Class 122) hauling the Gresley SK that used to be added when demand exceeded the capacity of the single unit, prior to a "proper" matching Gloucester DTS becoming available.

 

I'd noticed said beastie in a siding at Seaton Junction a number of times back in the day, but never observed the ensemble in action. 

 

John

Edited July 18, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Steamysandy]

On 20/04/2015 at 10:00, andytrains said:

Pair of Claytons on an Orangemans special in Scotland.

The shedmaster who allocated the engines to that train must have been Catholic, as it was likely to fail.

There is also a picture, I cannot remember where of an A4 piloted by a Black Five, I think it was on a fish train, from Aberdeen.

One of the Railways of Scotland DVDs has that on it.

However the first Scottish Grand Tour of March 25,1967 was originally intended to be eight coaches diesel hauled till an A4 became available for the section between Perth and Aberdeen.The train eventually ran with eighteen coaches led by Black5 no ,44997 leading 60009 and Perth to Edinburgh via Stirling by steam was added.Railways of Scotland DVD  No 7 shows it leaving Perth northwards.

I was on board having got a Saturday off from my job which I left 4months later!

 

 

[russ p]

On 17/07/2019 at 15:36, jonny777 said:

This is a screen grab from the Marsden Rail Vol 3 video at Carlisle, and has always brought a smile to me. 

 

It shows a class 20 assisting an ailing 40 on the Royal Scot, passing Kingmoor. The 20 even has the Royal Scot headboard attached somehow under the cab window. 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like both are under power so 3000bhp not too bad , whether the driver kept the 20  to 75mph we will never know. They can do a lot more but not strictly legal.....

[pH]

On 20/04/2015 at 02:00, andytrains said:

There is also a picture, I cannot remember where of an A4 piloted by a Black Five, I think it was on a fish train, from Aberdeen.

 

1 hour ago, Steamysandy said:

One of the Railways of Scotland DVDs has that on it.

 

Maybe not the same picture, but here's a Five piloting an A4 out of Aberdeen on a fish train:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/aglr/16269767947

 

[peanuts]

iirc in a book about Oldhams railways when there was a shortage of train crew passed on the new DMUs on the loop line they were hauled round by a steam loco ?

[Phil Bullock]

How about a BRCW Type 3 and a Black 5 double heading on a Hereford - Paddington train? Richard Moreton's excellent photo at Worcester Foregate Street on the MIAC website

 

http://www.miac.org.uk/class33.html#brd6518

 

Phil

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

How about a BRCW Type 3 and a Black 5 double heading on a Hereford - Paddington train? Richard Moreton's excellent photo at Worcester Foregate Street on the MIAC website

 

http://www.miac.org.uk/class33.html#brd6518

 

Phil

A relation involved there Phil?

[kevinlms]

6 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

How about a BRCW Type 3 and a Black 5 double heading on a Hereford - Paddington train? Richard Moreton's excellent photo at Worcester Foregate Street on the MIAC website

 

http://www.miac.org.uk/class33.html#brd6518

 

Phil

The Black 5 is possibly there for the steam heat capability?

[Phil Bullock]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

A relation involved there Phil?

 

Not this time Mike - a surprisingly common name around Worcester. 4 of us in my year at school and all unrelated. There was a distant relative who was DMPS (or equivalent) at Shrub Hill in first part of 20th Century - cant remember name now, not Bullock though.  

27 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

The Black 5 is possibly there for the steam heat capability?

 

Yes suspect you are right Kevin - that was the winter of 63, worst ever - never seen an LMS loco as rostered power for a Hereford - Padd although there were LMR workings to great Malvern - a Scot appeared IIRC and that continued in to early diesel days with BR and BRCW type 2 Bo-bos appearing. Suspect it was a case of anything goes in those conditions.

 

As the article in the link says the BRCW Type 3 s were there for crew training for the Fawley-Bomford bridge trains - but as far as I can ascertain they only travelled this route in 1963 and were re-routed via Banbury thereafter.

 

Phil 

[kevinlms]

4 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

 

Not this time Mike - a surprisingly common name around Worcester. 4 of us in my year at school and all unrelated. There was a distant relative who was DMPS (or equivalent) at Shrub Hill in first part of 20th Century - cant remember name now, not Bullock though.  

 

Yes suspect you are right Kevin - that was the winter of 63, worst ever - never seen an LMS loco as rostered power for a Hereford - Padd although there were LMR workings to great Malvern - a Scot appeared IIRC and that continued in to early diesel days with BR and BRCW type 2 Bo-bos appearing. Suspect it was a case of anything goes in those conditions.

 

As the article in the link says the BRCW Type 3 s were there for crew training for the Fawley-Bomford bridge trains - but as far as I can ascertain they only travelled this route in 1963 and were re-routed via Banbury thereafter.

 

Phil 

Took one look at the date and snow, (I remember that well and so I refuse to pay to go see snow in Australia!) add in that the Class 33 were ETH only and came up with that suggestion.

[TheSignalEngineer]

7 hours ago, peanuts said:

iirc in a book about Oldhams railways when there was a shortage of train crew passed on the new DMUs on the loop line they were hauled round by a steam loco ?

I was working on the coal wharf at Selly Oak one afternoon c1962 when  a Met Cam set from Redditch arrived behind Bromsgrove's Jinty. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by TheSignalEngineer
Auto spell has no geographical knowledge

[keefer]

"The Black 5 is possibly there for the steam heat capability?"

 

For the same reason, you could have a Crompton with a cl.24 inside to heat the train. Dont know how long this lasted, but certainly in green livery days. The pics I've seen were London non-gangwayed commuter trains

Edited July 19, 2019 by keefer