Kadee Couplers

[Suzie]

Code 75 rail is not high enough to allow the Kaydee permanent magnets to sit on top of the sleepers - they have to be cut away so it can be recessed (83 - 75) thingys

[juke]

Code 75 rail is not high enough to allow the Kaydee permanent magnets to sit on top of the sleepers - they have to be cut away so it can be recessed (83 - 75) thingys

I'm fairly new to using Kadees. I read the instructions on the #322 packet and with too little thought cut out the sleepers and began packing up with thin card for test purposes. Then I had a rethink, aren't 83 and 75 thousands of an inch? I'm guessing but I think that's right.

So a difference of 8 thou or .2mm. AND the sleepers shouldn't be cut, in fact a shim is needed to get the #322 to the .4mm above the rail as per Kadee leaflet.

Actually just had a thought, if code 83 is 8 thou taller then the 322 would need even more of a shim for 83 track, must be getting too late for thinking. But the test below works anyway.

I have just glued one #322 at rail level, ie glued straight on, no shim and one shimmed with a thin card and both work fine. In fact the shimmed one is rubbing some of my couplers a little but easily adjusted with the Kadee pliers.

Edited February 1, 2016 by juke

[Suzie]

I thought it was the dropper that should be 0.4mm above the rail not the magnet (which must be below the droppers). When I tried fixing the magnet with the Kadee height gauge it would not sit all the way down on code 75 rail heads until I removed the sleepers.

[Dungrange]

I'm also new to using Kadee and have just bought several types of magnets for test purposes.  My understanding of the #322 is that it is designed for Code 83 rail and as such if used with Code 75 it will be 0.008 inches too high (ie 0.20 mm).  Therefore, I think you should technically be removing 0.20 mm from the top of the sleepers before installation.  If you are using thick sleepers (1.6 mm depth), then I see no reason why you can't just file the sleepers that it is to be glued to first, since you are only looking to remove 1/8th of the sleeper depth.  Obviously if you are using thin sleepers, then more of the sleeper depth would be removed.  However, given that the bottom of the trip pins are supposed to be 0.8 mm (1/32" or 0.031") above rail level, I wouldn't expect issues if the trip pins are set at the correct height, provided you can ensure that the top of the magnet is around rail level. If I'm not mistaken, the height gauge has a facility to check the height of any magnet installations (it's the opposite end from the one used to test the coupling height).

 

Edit: trip pin clearances edited to avoid confusion.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Dungrange

[juke]

Suzie, Kadee leaflet 012408 says on P2 in the first paragraph below the Fig 2 box "The uncoupler should extend above the rails by exactly 1/64" (0.4mm)" This is the white leaflet packed with the uncoupler.

 

I'm using Peco FS Code 75 and the #322 sits exactly between the chairs. I've carefully checked with a torch and the magnet is securely glued flat on the sleepers. The little recess down each side of the bottom of the magnet might actually help this. I just made sure that the two ends were not above sleepers. It really looks as if it was designed exactly for this piece of track.

 

Dungrange, as I said my couplers 'just' foul the shimmed magnet, as I just used an umeasured thin piece of card. I put the gauge on both magnets just now and the little indicator dowel looks to be recessed about .1mm on the unshimmed and the using the same test on the shimmed one, the dowel is above the top of the gauge by a very slightly larger amount.

 

As I said in my first post both positions work the mechanism correctly in each of the functions. The raised one gives me the impression that it swings to the side a little quicker but I've checked and with both magnets the coupler has fully swung to the left. Both vehicles' couplers are exactly right for height per the gauge. So I intend to reduce the thickness of the shim by a tiny amount and standardise on that.

 

I also just measured the sleeper thickness with a digital caliper, it's 1.86mm.

[RFS]

I'm also using #322 on code 75 rail fixed directly to the sleepers and it works just fine.  It's the thicker #321 designed for code 100 track that needs the sleepers removing to fit code 75 track.

Edited February 2, 2016 by RFS

[tractor_37260]

Kadee make two versions of the "delayed un-coupler magnets"   #321 for Code 100 track and  #322 for Code 75/83.  Kadee also have an alignment jig available to set the magnet accurately in the track at the correct height relative to the

 

the rail heads etc,  part # 734.  The coupler trip pins can then be set at the correct height using their gauge  #205  - this gauge can also be used to check the magnet is fitted at the correct height.

[Dungrange]

Having just opening the #322 gauge that I bought last week, I note that it does indeed state that the top of the magnet should be 1/64th inch (0.4 mm) above the rail heads.  I initially wondered if this was a misprint, but looking at the #734 gauge (which i purchased at the same time), it is clear that the top of the magnet is meant to sit higher than the tops of the rails.  Looking back at the coupler specifications, it appears that the tails of H0 couplers should be 1/32nd inch (0.8 mm) above tops of the rails, which of course means that if the uncoupling magnet and trip pin tails are correctly set, there should be 1/64th inch (0.4 mm) between the trip pins and the correctly adjusted trip pins.

 

For some reason their is a misprint in the Kadee catalog in terms of the NEM couplings, which incorrectly state that the trip pins should be 0.08 mm above the top of the rails!  They should of course be 0.8 mm just like the rest of the H0 range.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Dungrange

[CloggyDog]

For those looking for the NEM Kadees (#17-20), Model Market have them at £3.50 per packet (2pr) with very reasonable shipping -  just £2.20 for the 7 packets I've just ordered for testing with my German H0 stock.

 

On my US H0 stock I've pretty much standardised on the #153 (whiskered short shank scale head) as most suitable for my era (1950s). I nip the trip pins off, as I'm a skewer-wielding kinda guy.

 

For my UK Em stock, I only use Kadees inter-rake on MUs and coaching stock. MU's have #17 or #18 in the NEMs between cars and I use screw-links between units. On CS, I cut a slot in the headstock and mount a standard draft box with a whiskered standard head coupler, length as appropriate. Trip pins nipped off as I have no need to split the rakes, screw link on designated outer vehicles.

[Stevelewis]

Hattons ................NEM  20s  £2.90  17/18/19 £3.50  Plus  quite  a  good  overall Kadee range  as well!

[Ray H]

I'm still struggling with the Kadee couplings so thought a few pictures might give others ideas of where things need adjusting - having taken them I can see some obvious problems but I'm not sure how to address a few of them.

 

 

The test magnet. It is very slightly out of line. The track is SMP and the top surface of the magnet (as supplied) is barely at rail level so the picture shows one that has a piece of thin card underneath to raise it slightly. The mis-alignment looks worse in the picture.

 

 

This shows the alignment of the couplings over plain track.

 

 

I believe that I have the height aligned correctly with the Kadee gauge.

 

 

The alignment over the magnet. The jaws on the outer edge of the knuckle don't seem to want to open fully even on several occasions when the two wagons are pushed together manually. Both couplings have swung the same way.

 

 

A side on view of both wagons over the magnet. The covers on both draft boxes are securely fixed in position. Both are the same number couplings - the number escapes me as I write but they are in the 14x series. The sag on one is more pronounced on one wagon for a reason that I can't ascertain.

[kevinlms]

I'm still struggling with the Kadee couplings so thought a few pictures might give others ideas of where things need adjusting - having taken them I can see some obvious problems but I'm not sure how to address a few of them.

 

kadee_1.jpg

 

The test magnet. It is very slightly out of line. The track is SMP and the top surface of the magnet (as supplied) is barely at rail level so the picture shows one that has a piece of thin card underneath to raise it slightly. The mis-alignment looks worse in the picture.

 

kadee_3.jpg

 

This shows the alignment of the couplings over plain track.

 

kadee_2.jpg

 

I believe that I have the height aligned correctly with the Kadee gauge.

 

kadee_4.jpg

 

The alignment over the magnet. The jaws on the outer edge of the knuckle don't seem to want to open fully even on several occasions when the two wagons are pushed together manually. Both couplings have swung the same way.

 

kadee_5.jpg

 

A side on view of both wagons over the magnet. The covers on both draft boxes are securely fixed in position. Both are the same number couplings - the number escapes me as I write but they are in the 14x series. The sag on one is more pronounced on one wagon for a reason that I can't ascertain.

The last photo shows what the issue is. The left hand pin is much too high off the magnet & thus almost no pull, hence its not pulling to its side.

 

The photo of the track gauge, The gauge appears to be too low, to me. Is it on a piece of rail and perhaps tightened down too much? Rather than push the coupler in to gauge's coupler, just butt it against it & take another look.

[47137]

In the packet of NEM couplers there will be some red washers. On the lower coupler, run a needle file across the pivot hole on both sides, then reassemble with the washer between the coupler and the box lid.

 

If the two couplers then line up with each other but are 1 mm or so too high, try centre set couplers.

 

I have been through so too many iterations, but in the end most of my 00 stock has ended up with centre-set couplers, with a washer above or below the coupler to make the difference, and often no washer at all.

 

- Richard.

[CloggyDog]

The other option is a shim of thin (5 or 10-thou) microstrip, 1 or 2mm wide by the length of the draft box opening, glued in at the front of the coupler lid (so under) the coupling - should lift the coupling into line.

 

 

My parcel from Model Market arrived on Friday (very quick service!), so I spent an entertaining few hours over the weekend trying the various lengths in my NEM-fitted German stock - to get good close coupling I found most of my personenwagen and guterwagen needed a #17 (short) at one end and a #18 (medium) at the other even though this would mean my stock would all be handed, but I can live with that. A #17 to #17 was marginally too short for reliable coupling, #18 to #18 was too long, especially on coaching stock. I may nip the pins off either all the short or all the mediums to aid identification. I have (so far) nothing that requires the #19 (long) or #20 (extra long)

 

I also looked at some of my older, non-NEM stock - for these I have a selection of NEM mounts scavenged from my UK 4mm RTR stock (which all gets 3-linked) and I've adapted these (filing, re-shaping) to fit older Piko, Roco and Schict stock, superglued in place.

[Ray H]

The last photo shows what the issue is. The left hand pin is much too high off the magnet & thus almost no pull, hence its not pulling to its side.

 

The photo of the track gauge, The gauge appears to be too low, to me. Is it on a piece of rail and perhaps tightened down too much? Rather than push the coupler in to gauge's coupler, just butt it against it & take another look.

The height gauge is resting on the rails. It seems to have a (lateral) position where it "locks" between the sleepers preventing its movement back and forth. That is state shown in the picture.

[Dungrange]

The height gauge is resting on the rails. It seems to have a (lateral) position where it "locks" between the sleepers preventing its movement back and forth. That is state shown in the picture.

It looks like it is resting on the sleepers rather than resting on the rail.  With the gauge mounted on the top surface of the rail, it will slide back and forth (at least my one does, which is the all metal one - yours looks to be the same).  The six little cast pieces on the underside of the gauge are designed to fit over 16.5 mm gauge track with the rail passing through the grooves.

[Ray H]

Here are a few more pictures.

 

 

The height gauge is the plastic one so I can leave it in situ without risk of shorting. As can be seen in the other pictures it is sitting on the rails clear of the sleepers and the uncoupling magnet can also be seen. I've not altered anything since the earlier pictures other than placing the gauge adjacent to the magnet and moving wagons to take the pictures.

 

 

This is the other wagon - the one with the sagging coupling

 

 

Hopefully showing that the gauge is sitting on the rails.

 

 

And from the rear of the gauge.

[charliepetty]

Here are a few more pictures.

 

kadee_6.jpg

 

The height gauge is the plastic one so I can leave it in situ without risk of shorting. As can be seen in the other pictures it is sitting on the rails clear of the sleepers and the uncoupling magnet can also be seen. I've not altered anything since the earlier pictures other than placing the gauge adjacent to the magnet and moving wagons to take the pictures.

 

kadee_7.jpg

 

This is the other wagon - the one with the sagging coupling

 

kadee_8.jpg

 

Hopefully showing that the gauge is sitting on the rails.

 

kadee_9.jpg

 

And from the rear of the gauge.

By using the Kadee Pliers the dropper can be bent upwards to adjust the height, and as mentioned plasticard shims should be used to tighten up the sloppy NEM housing on the wagons, a site worth looking at here is DC kits who visit lots of model shows throughout the UK,

see http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/kadee_couplings/4mm_couplings_with_nem_fittings/nem_medium_no_18_per_20_pairs.php

[tender]

The alignment over the magnet. The jaws on the outer edge of the knuckle don't seem to want to open fully even on several occasions when the two wagons are pushed together manually. Both couplings have swung the same way.

 

 

 

Hi Ray.

Both couplings swinging the same way seems to suggest that one of the couplings is not mounted centrally on the wagon. Push the wagons individually over the magnet to make sure the Kadee swings positively to the right side before coupling them up.

 

Your height gauge looks awfully high as does the between tracks magnet.

Edited February 9, 2016 by tender

[47137]

Hi Ray.

Both couplings swinging the same way seems to suggest that one of the couplings is not mounted centrally on the wagon. Push the wagons individually over the magnet to make sure the Kadee swings positively to the right side before coupling them up.

 

Your height gauge looks awfully high as does the between tracks magnet.

Ray,

 

The height gauge does not fit bullhead track like SMP and Exactocscale and as your photo shows it ends up too high. Get yourself a length of Hornby or Peco code 100 Set-track, and use this for setting up couplers. I've got a length of track glued down to a bit of strip wood for this. Then you can hold the whole assembly up to the light and see what is going on.

 

The magnet looks too high as well but this might be the camera angle. I use the Kadee jig to locate the magnets, and bed the magnet on No More Nails to fill the void beneath it.

 

Good luck!

 

Richard.

[Ray H]

Thanks for the continuing support and advice.

 

I had a pair of the trip pin pliers on order locally and was able to collect them this afternoon. I also picked up a couple of secondhand lengths of code100 set track and the following images are the result. I've shown the code 100 & code 75 versions of the same wagon. Aside from rail height the only difference is that the magnet on the code 100 is laid loose.

 

 

 

Looking at both code 75 pictures I wonder if the height gauge is a fraction too close to the magnet with the result that the coupling end is actually resting on the angled end of the magnet.

 

I don't want to adjust the trip pins (which are still as supplied until I've resolved any other issues.

 

The couplings swing the right way - i.e. to opposite sides - when the wagons are passed over the magnet individually.

 

The secured magnet is 0.14mm above rail level which is less than half the recommended height (1/64th" )above rail level.

 

I believe the couplings are centred as the second image in post 237 attempts to show.

 

I shall attempt to spend a little more time on this over the weekend as one wagon (at least) needs the "droop" removing.

[orford]

Code 75 rail is not high enough to allow the Kaydee permanent magnets to sit on top of the sleepers - they have to be cut away so it can be recessed (83 - 75) thingys

 

I do wish people would not state things on the internet which are simply untrue, since a lot of people take what they read on-line as fact. The thinner version of the Kadee magnets (which are designed for use with Code 83 rail - a popular rail size in the USA) will sit perfectly happily on the top of the sleepers when using Code 75 track. The difference is only 8 thousandths of an inch.....less than the thickness of the sheets of writing paper on my desk (which are 9 thou thick - I just measured one) and this is well within tolerance of the Kadee system. I have 16 of the thinner magnets in use on my Code 75 layout, all mounted in this way and they all work absolutely perfectly. The difference is so slight that it is not even necessary to adjust the trip pin height provided the couplers are correctly mounted. Visually, the difference is totally indetectable.

 

However, the 'standard' (ie thicker) Kadee magnets are designed for use with Code 100 rail and those will certainly need the sleepers cutting out if you are using Code 75 rail.

 

I appreciate that this has already been stated by several others - I'm just adding my own confirmation.

Edited February 9, 2016 by orford

[Suzie]

I apologise for the error - I was just going by experience in that the magnets supplied in the Kadee starter kit were not suitable for code 75 track and the sleepers had to be cut away before they would fit using the fitting guide that is also supplied in the starter kit.

 

If Kadee make a magnet that is small enough to be fitted to code 75 track why do they not supply it with the starter kit since it can also be fitted to code 83 and code 100 when using the glueing guide since gap filling adhesive will be required anyway to get it at the correct level.

 

It is not like Kadee instructions make it clear that more suitable alternatives are available - this page is still currently on the Kadee website:-

 

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page321.htm

 

I quote:-

 

"Ready to mount on top of ties with Code 100 rail.
Cut out ties if mounting Code 83, 70, 55 or 40 rail."

 

It might be worth mentioning the mis-information to Kadee. I would do it myself if they had not banned me from the forum!

Edited February 9, 2016 by Suzie

[BR60103]

Ray:

The magnet should not be anywhere near the height gauge. The coupler is being noticeably pulled down in the photos.

The height gauge should fit on any track as long as it isn't over chairs -- may have to move a couple of sleepers.

I have Kadee magnets on some K&L or SMP bullhead and the height looks OK to me, although I would prefer to have it level with or below the rail top!

The trip wire should clear the gauge when pushed in, but it should not be adjusted until the coupler itself is at the right height. Tricky. In N, Kadee solved it by supplying a separate piece of metal for the trip pin check. They also had a pointy bit on the other end for marking the right height for the top of the draft gear box.

[Butler Henderson]

If you can find them the Bachmann Ezmate magnets are IMO better than the Kadee ones and fit below the track rather than on top of the sleepers. To identify where they are I position a bird in line with them on a lineside building, wall or fence.