Dapol HST

[Robert Shrives]

Hi gang,

My Swallow IC HST arrived today and runs a treat. Trailers all printed ok. After 20 minutes each way motor car fine. I note that again the trailer window has no glue but driver has but only picked up on this when reading above comments. I guess Dave will need to explain what a "spot" of glue means..

For a "laugh" ran my XC farish trailers between - what a difference, so plain.I had thought to run a mixed rake but this will not be possible. Just have to sit on my hands and wait I guess - I did wonder about buying a couple of NQP Mk3s from Hattxxxx to repaint for the blue grey version- might still do..

 

I did however not find on the interweb thingy any pics of the two power cars showing the large vehicle numbers on the front, Only one of 43118 with coach sized numbers on the front at KGX with 43042 alongside with small numbers underlined. Several other PCs with large numbers and I recall them from spotting days, so perhaps right at some point.

 

What might be bigest own goal is that I found a pick of 43194 without the side window on the van end in this livery taken by BTM. I wonder when conversion took place. Regardless a good model and set. Hopefully Ben will get Bernard to do a fine etch for the cooler group roof alterers among us....

Viz missing slat - not a drain but a quick mod to allow platform side rad refills during the hot summers ( remember them) of late 1970s and early 80`s when the coolergroups suffered.

happy modelling

Robert

[bennyboy]

Ah, now if they were into doing that we would have got see-through steam loco wheels from the start, wouldn't we? As well as crisper paint jobs, much higher proportions of models that don't need sending back, etc etc.

 

I like my Dapol HST (glue on window aside) a lot but it doesn't hold a candle to the Fleischmann 146 Electric I bought this week.

 

Chris

 

No, but the Fleischmann locomotive does cost almost twice the price of the 4-car HST. I'm sure that for £300 Dapol could produce a HST model to the same standards as Fleischmann, but how many people would buy it?

[Bomag]

What might be bigest own goal is that I found a pick of 43194 without the side window on the van end in this livery taken by BTM. I wonder when conversion took place.

Robert

 

43194 never had a guard's side window. The later batches of power cars (AFIIK 43152 and later) were built after the TGS were introduced and never had them. Most/all of the powers cars have had the windows plated over.

[Montafon]

No, but the Fleischmann locomotive does cost almost twice the price of the 4-car HST. I'm sure that for £300 Dapol could produce a HST model to the same standards as Fleischmann, but how many people would buy it?

That's not quite fair on Fleischmann. The latest Fleischmann electric (BR 182 Taurus) can be had for £130 new from a UK shop, and there are buy-it-now new BR 146s on a certain online auction website for £90 including postage from Germany. I reckon a Fleischmannesque HST would be around £200, but it certainly wouldn't have cost Dapol anything like that much more to "go European" with the windscreen!

 

Here are some (fairly dire) photos of my new arrival on the track. It absolutely shouts HST at me! The directional headlights are really neatly done and DCC installation was so simple because the bodyshell comes off easily, during the course of which I noticed that part of the chassis is made from some amazingly flexible plastic which makes it even easier to dis/reassemble. I must confess I didn't actually notice anything wrong with the windscreen on the power car...perhaps I was lucky or perhaps it's just not noticeable when you put the model on a layout.

 

My verdict: absolutely love all aspects of the model, absolutely hate the colour discrepancy! (Which the camera definitely makes worse though.)

 

 

 

Perhaps Dapol can confirm, but presumably the grey on the next tranche of IC Swallow Mk3s will match the 4-car book set? According to Dapol on Facebook these are on the way in July...

[bcnPete]

I see Dapol have posted some shots of the FGW power cars on their Facebook page here

[60006]

Dapol actually had examples of the FGW and GC versions at the RMWeb members day. I managed to get a couple of quick snaps on my phone so I apologise if they aren't great quality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tom N.

[Clay Country]

Mr Burkin has also done a rather nice photo review of the GC set on his blog

[TomE]

The finish on the FGW sample on display at the members day was superb. I sometimes find Dapol finishes a bit flat, but this had just the right amount of shine to it. Just a shame I don't need one........

 

Tom

[RWJP]

I look forward to Dapol's take on the rather complex designs on the current FGW coaches, a decent length set of those will look stunning.

 

If the FGW Powercar, and the livery application on the GC set is anything to go by, it should be impressive.

[Chris Higgs]

No, but the Fleischmann locomotive does cost almost twice the price of the 4-car HST. I'm sure that for £300 Dapol could produce a HST model to the same standards as Fleischmann, but how many people would buy it?

 

You are not comparing a level playing field. The Fleischmann is a lot cheaper in Germany, where is comes from - they just rip you off in the UK with the prices for this stuff. My 146 bought in Dusseldorf was quite a bit less than my Dapol HST (bought in the UK), even using today's incredibly bad exchange rate with the pound so weak. At a more typical exchange rate from the past, I could have bought a couple of 146s for the price of the HST.

[43179]

Nice to see another shot of the FGW power car - as you say Tom - its got a nie sheen to it.

 

The yellow warning panel on the model looks very wierd though - its the wrong shape along the bottom - it should follow the top edge of where old light covers were blanked off - like this:

 

tfn

 

Hopefully Dapol can amend this before production? as it would look far better....

 

tfn

 

Jon

[steam-driven boy]

Hi

Kernow have posted photo's of the FGW HST Bookset, power cars and coaches - here, here and here

 

Regards, Gerry.

[Padishar Creel]

You are not comparing a level playing field. The Fleischmann is a lot cheaper in Germany, where is comes from - they just rip you off in the UK with the prices for this stuff. My 146 bought in Dusseldorf was quite a bit less than my Dapol HST (bought in the UK), even using today's incredibly bad exchange rate with the pound so weak. At a more typical exchange rate from the past, I could have bought a couple of 146s for the price of the HST.

 

The exchange rate was for years a very steady €1,60 per GBP. Now it is a reasonably steady €1,12 per GBP give or take the odd cent or two. That is a ca. 30% price increase for the UK market without the Gebr. Fleischmann GmbH & Co KG doing anything themselves. The full retail price for the BR146 is €197, which, given the cost of living here in Germany, is still a lot of money for the average earner. Box shifters naturally sell them for less, averaging around €140. Sounds familiar?

 

Regards

jgp

[43172]

Oh great, so we have a van window in the rear of the powercar on both (wrong), Marston coolers on the GC set (wrong), gold doors on the GC TS (should be silver), glue-smeared windscreens, the corridor connection cock-up, and now a FGW HST with ###### Allegro lamp clusters.

[bcnPete]

Oh great, so we have a van window in the rear of the powercar on both (wrong), Marston coolers on the GC set (wrong), gold doors on the GC TS (should be silver), glue-smeared windscreens, the corridor connection cock-up, and now a FGW HST with ###### Allegro lamp clusters.

 

but apart from all that....it's still a nice model

[Clay Country]

Oh great, so we have a van window in the rear of the powercar on both (wrong), Marston coolers on the GC set (wrong), gold doors on the GC TS (should be silver), glue-smeared windscreens, the corridor connection cock-up, and now a FGW HST with ###### Allegro lamp clusters.

 

Or we could spend many hours fettling the Farish HST and produce something only a fraction as good as this I agree it's not perfect, but it is a very big leap forward. And for me the character of the real thing is definately there.

[dave flint]

Or we could spend many hours fettling the Farish HST and produce something only a fraction as good as this I agree it's not perfect, but it is a very big leap forward. And for me the character of the real thing is definately there.

 

Agreed. I couldnt really give a monkeys about what cooler group is fitted. In this small scale, does it really matter ? Really ?!

 

Bring on the NMT one.

 

 

 

[Revolution Mike]

Agreed. I couldnt really give a monkeys about what cooler group is fitted. In this small scale, does it really matter ? Really ?!

 

I am afraid that I think it does...otherwise where does it stop?

 

While I might not notice the cooler group I would certainly notice if the windows were wrong - blanked/not blanked off. Furthermore what is acceptable to one person as a compromise will not be acceptable to another.

 

I thought that in all scales (not just N) we had got past this sort of compromise...

[43172]

The issue is that the serious hard work has been done by the Dapol designers; the level of detail is incredible (and much appreciated), yet the results of it are being spoiled by glaringly obvious schoolboy errors and careless assembly. When a full set costs in the region of £230 (from the cheapest box-shifter), I'm not happy to just shrug my shoulders and say "oh well, it's better than what we had before". Perhaps you don't notice the cooler groups from platform level, but in a scale as small as N, you spend far more time as the "eye in the sky", and with the four main types having very obvious differences when it comes to the roof grille/fan arrangement, having Marstons on refurbished powercars just looks ridiculous. It's a hell of a lot more obvious than the angle of the roof, or whatever all the fuss was with the Heljan 33s.

[valeofyork]

The issue is that the serious hard work has been done by the Dapol designers; the level of detail is incredible (and much appreciated), yet the results of it are being spoiled by glaringly obvious schoolboy errors and careless assembly. When a full set costs in the region of £230 (from the cheapest box-shifter), I'm not happy to just shrug my shoulders and say "oh well, it's better than what we had before". Perhaps you don't notice the cooler groups from platform level, but in a scale as small as N, you spend far more time as the "eye in the sky", and with the four main types having very obvious differences when it comes to the roof grille/fan arrangement, having Marstons on refurbished powercars just looks ridiculous. It's a hell of a lot more obvious than the angle of the roof, or whatever all the fuss was with the Heljan 33s.

 

I agree that at this price I would expect them to be right - Hornby have modelled all the different cooler group types. If Dapol didn't want to go to the expense of doing this they would have been better to stick to liveries (such as the old GC one) where Martson cooolers were correct.

 

 

And from the pictures on Hattons' website it does look like all the TSs have gold doors. How has this mistake happened? It can't be a case of avoiding additional expenditure, as the cooler group probably is.

 

 

I was going to buy this set, but I'm having second thoughts - might buy some more Hornby ones instead (I collect HSTs in both gauges).

[bmthtrains - David]

Have GC changed their livery? I thought the first class coaches had gold doors, standard silver. If this is an error, its put me off buying it just when I had convinced myself to get one!

 

David

[valeofyork]

Have GC changed their livery? I thought the first class coaches had gold doors, standard silver. If this is an error, its put me off buying it just when I had convinced myself to get one!

 

David

 

 

GC's standard carriages do indeed have silver doors.

[Stu from EGDL]

Hi Guys;

 

I'm hoping Dave will be 'up front' enought to come on here and explain the errors over the doors and cooler groups...or at least expand on the reasons why. However, although a little irritating, surely we can pop a bit of silver paint on the doors for ourselves. The cooler groups are a little more taxing in the modelling stakes....but people like ewsjo already show that it can be done.

 

Perhaps the RRP should be reduced a little to compensate the armchair modellers.

 

And before everyone gets on their high horse about fidelity and accuracy........don't buy it if you feel it compromises your exacting standards....then I';ll be able to pick up one cheap from a bucket box and slap some paint on it, drill some holes in the power car roofs and actually do a little modelling.

 

Later;

STU from EGDL

[robrailltd]

Indeed on teh layout i build the public wont be able to get close enough to see the detail.

[DapolDave]

Hi everyone,

 

Just back to work from a few days of illness and i thought i'd put a few 'demons' to bed with the GC and FGW issue.

 

Firstly i'll cover the GC issue.

The original revised paint diagram we received for the GC HST included (and yes this is true) silver TF, and TS doors, a single black door on the TRSB with the other end door being gold.

 

However this was changed by GC to be the TF with gold doors not the TSRB. However, when we got down to the final permissionas and approval for this livery they insisted on gold doors (reading between the lines there may be a repainting of the silver to gold on the cards), and with this specification this is how we have replicated the livery. Totally authorised by GC.

 

With regards to the cooler group, well this was an easy one , although not totally palatable, to decide not to produce. Simply put the tooling for this cooler group would include £10000.00 of expenditure that could not , at the time be justified on this model given the limited sales of the HST prior to release. Indeed the GC is our worse seller at the moment despite extra coaches being available at launch (buffet still to come).

 

FGW

 

This was an interesting one as we again were under strict instructions to paint to their specifications. The original blue roof we did a deco approval sample for them for was rejected as being innaccurate and they requested the addition of a BLACK (not grey) centre roof stripe running form the exhaust deflector, along the roof of the power car and all coaches about 4 ribs wide (if i remember correctly). This we submitted and got asked to change it as the 'new' roof colour was all over black with blue upper 'shoulders'.

 

This has been subsequently accepted by FGW and has now finished production and is on the high seas.

 

It is worth noting that with modern Railway companies they are very fussy (in the best way) in getting their 'image' correctly portrayed, and we cannot just do a livery 'on spec' as this wont pass their approval process. As such both GC, FGW, NR, GBRF, DBS, FL, Virgin, ATW, Northern Rail etc all sign off officially on decorated models to ensure that Dapol cannot be blamed when the model doesnt turn out quite like the real thing.

 

It's not a Dapol 'Horlicks' merely us following the train operators instructions as unless we do , we do not get authorisation to proceed with the decoration on our model.

 

I hope this helps clear things up.

 

cheers

 

Dave