RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted June 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2014 We are having the same points raised that we get after every international tournament. In truth regardless of who was manager he would pick the same players for the squad. There simply aren't enough international class players to choose from. We would probably all struggle to pick forty Englishmen for the first squad, even worse reduce that to twenty two for the final squad. I'm not writing about young lads who would feel proud to pull on the shirt and run themselves into the ground for the honour, doubtless there are plenty of them. Real international class players are thin on the ground and Roy and his advisers have to work with what's available. On a lighthearted vein, there was a saying in cricket that when Yorkshire are strong England are strong. If we look back to '66 perhaps we can say that when West Ham are strong England are strong. I fear we are in for a long wait. I can see what you mean, however, Ghana took the game to Germany, enough to give the "Herrmans" a panic attack.... I don't know how many Ghanians are in the premiership, but I expect to see a few more after this tournament. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Everyone keeps banging on about world class international players. Portugal are bottom of their group and the USA may go through in that group. We are bottom and it looks like Costa Rica may go through. Ghana drew 2-2 with Germany last night. Iran were incredibly unlucky not to get a point against Argentina yesterday. These aren't squads with masses of top level talent but they are incredibly well organised with a determination to win! Crucially they've picked the best teams not necessarily the best players, and it is clear to me that what team you're playing for has little impact on the overall performance of a given squad. It's how well the players mesh together and and play together, with tactics and organisation paramount and talent actually second for a change. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I can see what you mean, however, Ghana took the game to Germany, enough to give the "Herrmans" a panic attack.... I don't know how many Ghanians are in the premiership, but I expect to see a few more after this tournament. Well, there were 2 ex-PL players, in Gyan and Essien, but the rest were mostly unknowns to me. Incidentally, last night's match must have been one of the first internationals where 2 brothers played against each other! These aren't squads with masses of top level talent but they are incredibly well organised with a determination to win! Carlos Queiroz looks far more impressive as manager of Iran than he did when we all thought he was simply Fergie's yes-man. Iran were desperately unlucky not to come away with another point. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Nail hit on head there Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodshaw Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Everyone keeps banging on about world class international players. Portugal are bottom of their group and the USA may go through in that group. We are bottom and it looks like Costa Rica may go through. Ghana drew 2-2 with Germany last night. Iran were incredibly unlucky not to get a point against Argentina yesterday. These aren't squads with masses of top level talent but they are incredibly well organised with a determination to win! Crucially they've picked the best teams not necessarily the best players, and it is clear to me that what team you're playing for has little impact on the overall performance of a given squad. It's how well the players mesh together and and play together, with tactics and organisation paramount and talent actually second for a change. I agree world class players are overrated. They are hyped up when they do something very occasionally that they are expected to do anyway. There was also a good point made by one journalist in my Sunday paper today, cutting through some of the nonsense about expectations and being wise after the event. The results of matches often hinge on small details. If Spain had scored that second goal against Holland, they could have won...if Rooney hadn't missed a sitter against Uruguay...if the Uruguay goalie had chosen to throw the ball out instead of punt it downfield...if it hadn't skimmed off Gerrard's head...if England hadn't been awarded a dubious third goal in the 1966 final they might never have got a fourth and could have lost...and so on. On another day the results might have been quite different, and so it has always been in tight matches. It's all about probabilities, and even a team with only a 20% chance of winning a match would, on average, win one time in five if that match could be played often enough in similar or identical conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 As Simom rightly says, football is a team game. The time England won the World Cup (possiblly the only time they will.....) was when they fielded what their manager considered to be the best team. And it worked. There were better individual players around (eg Jimmy Greaves), but it was the balance of the team that mattered. The leaders of English football need to sit down and think what they really want from an England team. What style do they want to play? How does the league/training/scouting/management need to be arranged to achieve this? No good copying the best current teams at the moment as if/when England achieve that, the rest of the world will have moved on and we'll still be left behind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted June 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2014 As Simom rightly says, football is a team game. The time England won the World Cup (possiblly the only time they will.....) was when they fielded what their manager considered to be the best team. And it worked. There were better individual players around (eg Jimmy Greaves), but it was the balance of the team that mattered. The leaders of English football need to sit down and think what they really want from an England team. What style do they want to play? How does the league/training/scouting/management need to be arranged to achieve this? No good copying the best current teams at the moment as if/when England achieve that, the rest of the world will have moved on and we'll still be left behind. This is very much the current FA intention with the recent Greg Dyke report that suggested Prem clubs having second teams in lower divisions. But people have rubbished that idea because they want to put "Club" (in reality Business) ahead of Country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Are you saying that the England players aren't even good enough to be a scapegoat? I had a good chuckle at that Mick. Sadly, some of 'em probably aren't. I think that Ron etc, must be Rooney' s agent though as he knows far more than us! Best , Pete The general details are all in the public domain. For example.... The Telegraph SportsPro Similar details were published by the FT, Times etc. .....I happened to be an outpatient in the local A&E when the England - Uruguay match was on. None of us, nor the staff catching the odd glance at the TV while taking care of us were impressed. I had no doubt who were earning their crust that night. A sentiment that probably rings true with most of us; but it would be wrong to single out one particular player who actually put in more effort than many of the others and was involved in both of England's only two goals so far. If we are to indulge in a game of singling out players, then Captain Calamity would probable be right at the top of the list. Although atrocious doesn't begin to describe his contribution, I wouldn't like to go down that route because I think pointless witch hunts are just as much use as making excuses.. So just to see if I've got this straight Ron. You're pulling me up for quoting a figure of 300,000 or thereabouts, and whilst his wage has actually gone down, the money he is going to receive has the potential to go up, effectively? So perhaps my point about the ridiculousness of his wage packet still stands despite the pedantry over the mathematics of it all? Apologies for the pedantry Simon, it just irks whenever the made up story about wages of £300,000 p.w. are mentioned. Rooney will be earning well in excess of £300,000 p.w., but he's not being paid that sort of money by the club in wages. It may sound like ridiculous wages to some, but he's only rated as 43rd on the list of the highest paid sportsmen/women. In football, Rooney earns far less than superstars like Ronaldo and Messi. Even Gareth Bale earns almost double Rooney's total earnings. In the EPL, he's on roughly the same as Sergio Aguero and just slightly above Yaya Toure and Fernando Torres (and we all know how much he's performed for his money!). Gerrard and Mesut Ozil aren't much further behind either. Non of those players have (so to speak) exactly 'shown up" at recent World Cups (in Bale's case he really hasn't been able to show up). This is Messi's first tournament where he's actually made a contribution, notably with his couple of goals so far. Anyone earning £20,000 a year or below will see their annual wage earned within the first day of Wayne Rooney's working week. Don't you think that's gone beyond no longer being able to connect with the normal football fan? A dose of reality. The incomes of the highest paid footballers get them nowhere near the world's rich list. A net worth of £100 million is small fry. I'm not saying that's right or just. That's the way it is. . Edited June 22, 2014 by Ron Ron Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Sterling inspirational stuff from the England captain this evening - no wonder the team fail to perform with someone like him urging them on.....................need a holiday, get my head together, etc. etc. - Muppet !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 USA 2 - 1 Portugal. This has been one of the best world cups for years! Portugal on verge of falling out after England and Italy. Incredible. (Current score) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Five minutes of added time. Feel like the USA were robbed there. Absolutely disgusting refereeing again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Five minutes of added time. Feel like the USA were robbed there. Absolutely disgusting refereeing again. Too good to be true, no? Thing is, the Americans still have that annoying habit of giving away possession when they should have been going for a third goal themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2014 Away from the World Cup, I recently heard a story that newly promoted Burnley would remain in the Premier League for three seasons before relegation.. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Autumn, Winter and Spring. Cheers, Mick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Kieran Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Before the tournament, I was constantly criticized for claiming that Rooney is one of the most overrated players in the game (This distinction also goes to Cristiano Ronaldo). I'm finally getting the evidence to support my claim. From the way that I see it, England's immediate future is in Sturridge and Sterling. England has opened up the game more, but they need a faster crowd to play up to win with it. England's FA has a lot of tough decisions ahead. As an Azzuri fan, I was a little nervous in the first half on Saturday night. I thought that England had outplayed the Italians, they just couldn't get it in when they had open lanes (3 times). Like Italy 4 years ago, they have to let go of players living off of their names and go with players that can win. Nuff said. But didn't Ronaldo look pretty? He will make a fine wife in prison. Not only was his performance dismal, but he looked like a drag queen. Execpt for the final 5 seconds, The United States played the best soccer that I've ever seen from them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Kieran Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Too good to be true, no? Thing is, the Americans still have that annoying habit of giving away possession when they should have been going for a third goal themselves. I was very annoyed that they slowed down the attack in added time. When you allow Portugual to keep taking those shots, you increase their chance of scoring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakydoke Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Michael Bradley needlessly losing the ball in midfield, directly leading to Ronaldo' s run up the wing and the equalising goal, with seconds to go, had a horrible sense of déjà vu about it. A Gerrard moment! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodshaw Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 This is very much the current FA intention with the recent Greg Dyke report that suggested Prem clubs having second teams in lower divisions. But people have rubbished that idea because they want to put "Club" (in reality Business) ahead of Country. Business ahead of country? What are all those sponsors (nay, 'partners') of national teams there for then, with their logos and hoardings splattered about the place, and their adverts in our faces at every possible opportunity? Football at national level is as much about lucrative business interests as at club level, in fact more widely so. Especially at World Cups. It's all about promoting England plc rather than promoting football for its own sake. Even now, advertisers will be thinking about how to milk the early exit. We'll no doubt soon see Gerrard, with a wry smile on his face, promoting some brand of shampoo to clean his hair after that ball skimmed off his head and left a mark.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 ...Even now, advertisers will be thinking about how to milk the early exit. .... How about this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2014 So just to see if I've got this straight Ron. You're pulling me up for quoting a figure of 300,000 or thereabouts, and whilst his wage has actually gone down, the money he is going to receive has the potential to go up, effectively? So perhaps my point about the ridiculousness of his wage packet still stands despite the pedantry over the mathematics of it all? Anyone earning £20,000 a year or below will see their annual wage earned within the first day of Wayne Rooney's working week. Don't you think that's gone beyond no longer being able to connect with the normal football fan? And he's crap for the money. Still its Man Utd's money wasted, so I don't really care! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2014 Still along the lines of business ahead of country.... Don't forget England couldn't use the World Cup ball in their friendly matches at Wembly because the FA had a deal with a different ball maker. If the FA can't put the team first....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Nuff said. But didn't Ronaldo look pretty? He will make a fine wife in prison. Not only was his performance dismal, but he looked like a drag queen..... A little off-colour, Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Has anyone noticed that the Cameroon have got Mr T from the A Team in goal tonight? "I ain't saving no shot fool!!!!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2014 Business ahead of country? What are all those sponsors (nay, 'partners') of national teams there for then, with their logos and hoardings splattered about the place, and their adverts in our faces at every possible opportunity? Football at national level is as much about lucrative business interests as at club level, in fact more widely so. Especially at World Cups. It's all about promoting England plc rather than promoting football for its own sake. Even now, advertisers will be thinking about how to milk the early exit. We'll no doubt soon see Gerrard, with a wry smile on his face, promoting some brand of shampoo to clean his hair after that ball skimmed off his head and left a mark.. Apparently travel agents are doing well from England's early exit. Brewers of canned lager must be gutted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Kieran Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Has anyone noticed that the Cameroon have got Mr T from the A Team in goal tonight? "I ain't saving no shot fool!!!!" I pity the fool that comes into my penalty box! I pity the fool! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2014 Even now, advertisers will be thinking about how to milk the early exit. We'll no doubt soon see Gerrard, with a wry smile on his face, promoting some brand of shampoo to clean his hair after that ball skimmed off his head and left a mark.. I thought I was watching Liverpool for a moment; Gerrard - to Suarez - GOAL!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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