EMU Identification

[Dieselbob]

Hi All

Can you Help.

I have just uploaded a video to Youtube showing EMU's on the North London line at Park Royal (Kew Curve)in 1988.

I then realised that what I know about EMU's you could write on a Match Box, does anyone recognise the class so I can fill in the caption.

 

 

I looked in Colin Marsdens book Motive Power Recognition 2, EMUs but cannot find them.

Cheers

Bob

[Pennine MC]

Quick answer Bob before bed - it's a 2HAP or 2EPB and I'm pretty sure it's an SR design/BR build variant (i.e not like the Bachy one). I'm sure you'll get much fuller answers by the morning)

[John M Upton]

SR design 2-EPB (Class 416) units. More here:

http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class415_1.html

 

Note to be confused with the BR design version that had a slightly different appearance (and are supposedly due imminently from Bachmann)

[Pennine MC]

Before midnight even

[Guest Max Stafford]

Alright then, what class is this one...?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu

[EddieB]

Class 416/3 (2-EPB), 63xx series.

 

 

[Baby Deltic]

Alright then, what class is this one...?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu

 

That's a 2 EPBeak, Dave.

 

P.S. I believe the EPB stands for Easy Peck Beak, on this type, whereas the southern variant were Electro Pneumatic Brake.

[charliepetty]

SR design 2-EPB (Class 416) units. More here:

http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class415_1.html

 

Note to be confused with the BR design version that had a slightly different appearance (and are supposedly due imminently from Bachmann)

 

Bullied Designed, BR Built 2EPB

[Gwiwer]

When the question is asked as to how many London termini saw 2EPB operation we must remember to include Broad Street. They ran the NLL thence to Richmond for a short time after withdrawal of the venerable class 501 "DC" sets and prior to the closure of the Broad Street - Dalston section. Following that closure the 2EPB units ran the electrified service to North Woolwich and it became possible to circumnavigate London on them via North Woolwich - Richmond; Richmond - Waterloo; Waterloo East - Woolwich Arsenal.

 

The SR rolling stock of that era was nothing if not versatile!

[Xerces Fobe2]

Here is a photo taken a few years ago of Ripper Street the DEMU TVAG Minories style layout based on Broad Street with a Class 416/3 and Class 501's in the station

 

 

Xerces Fobe

[Oldddudders]

When the question is asked as to how many London termini saw 2EPB operation we must remember to include Broad Street. They ran the NLL thence to Richmond for a short time after withdrawal of the venerable class 501 "DC" sets and prior to the closure of the Broad Street - Dalston section. Following that closure the 2EPB units ran the electrified service to North Woolwich and it became possible to circumnavigate London on them via North Woolwich - Richmond; Richmond - Waterloo; Waterloo East - Woolwich Arsenal.

 

The SR rolling stock of that era was nothing if not versatile!

In a previous era, I think an 8-COR full of enthusiasts had run to Watford on the DC line from Euston, although I can't think how it had got onto the DC system in the first place. Those 2-EPBs, which ran as a 4x2 formation every day from Selhurst Depot, were only able to get onto the NLL at Richmond by virtue of some minor track alterations enabling shunt moves from SR to the LUL side of the station. As I've posted before, I know I chaired the meeting where it was all agreed between the Regions and with the SR technical departments, but the details are lost on me!

[Ceptic]

That's a 2 EPBeak, Dave.

 

P.S. I believe the EPB stands for Easy Peck Beak, on this type, whereas the southern variant were Electro Pneumatic Brake.

 

Only brought into use for the beak periods, I might add.

 

"Ho, Ho, Ho, 'Tis the Season to be Jolly"

[Xerces Fobe2]

In a previous era, I think an 8-COR full of enthusiasts had run to Watford on the DC line from Euston, although I can't think how it had got onto the DC system in the first place. Those 2-EPBs, which ran as a 4x2 formation every day from Selhurst Depot, were only able to get onto the NLL at Richmond by virtue of some minor track alterations enabling shunt moves from SR to the LUL side of the station. As I've posted before, I know I chaired the meeting where it was all agreed between the Regions and with the SR technical departments, but the details are lost on me!

 

It was a single 4COR 3135 that visited Broad Street in on 08/11/1970 as well as the the rest of the LMR DC lines including Croxley Green. 2BILs 2111, 2135 &2140 also visited Broad Street on the 25/09/71 - this train was split with 2135 working unit own to and from Broad Street due to power supply limitations on the North London Lines.

 

Xerces Fobe

[Gwiwer]

For the 2EPB sets there has always been an emergency connection between the SR and LMR / LT metals at Richmond. I believe it was already electrified but had to be moved slightly to permit 8-car trains to use it as it was positioned to permit only a 6-car (2x501) train into the dead-end platform road. It was IIRC resignalled with suitable interface and protection though the work was relatively simple. The NLL service was operated on 3rd rail current by then as the 501's had ceased to use 4th rail current return well before their withdrawal. The fourth rail was only used by LT trains on the Richmond - Gunnersbury shared section; the SR stock returned traction current via the running rails just as the 501's had done in later years.

 

How would 8COR have got onto the NLL or DC lines? Wide body stock was not permitted through Hampstead Heath tunnel unless fitted with window bars so unless special arrangements were made to block the opposite line and to lock windows closed during the tunnel section the train would not have reached Broad Street by that route.

 

I believe the tour may have used the Richmond connection in two 4Cor portions and been recoupled later. I would suggest it reversed at Kensal Green and gained the DC lines via the NLL - Willesden Junction LL "New Line" link. As an alternative to Richmond it could have run via New Kew - Kew East Junctions which IIRC has the juice rail through to the NLL at South Acton.

 

Simultaneous post with XF's above

[Xerces Fobe2]

Check this excellent site out for details of the these and many more Railtours

 

http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/

 

Xerces Fobe

[TheSignalEngineer]

6323 gets a few strange looks at Watford Junction in early 1989

[Gwiwer]

6323 gets a few strange looks

 

In that condition is it any wonder? At least the 313's were in fairly respectable toothpaste colours and not (usually) covered in graffiti. That particular EPB also does not have the destination roller fitted that was used on the NLL for most of the time the units were there.

 

The two-digit headcode was normally wound to "square" (double white blank) on the leading end and a short destination roller was fitted to the allocated units in the space formerly occupied by the dots and dashes roller above the two numerals. The typeface was rather small and as such pre-dated the complaints about the "unreadable" destinations on the WES and JOP units by some years! IIRC the destinations on the roll were (using the abbreviations displayed)

N. Woolwich, Stratford, Willesden J, Richmond, Broad St. and I have a vague recollection that Euston, Watford and possibly Croxley Grn might have been on there as well.

[br2975]

It was a single 4COR 3135 that visited Broad Street in on 08/11/1970 as well as the the rest of the LMR DC lines including Croxley Green. 2BILs 2111, 2135 &2140 also visited Broad Street on the 25/09/71 - this train was split with 2135 working unit own to and from Broad Street due to power supply limitations on the North London Lines.

 

The 2-Bil special of 25/09/1971 was organised by the B.R.S.A. (British Rail Staff Association) and commenced at Waterloo.

 

At Richmond JB E6040 was used to pull the split train(s) across the gap.

 

The 4 car train preceeded 2135 to Broad Street.

 

The units combined again to form a 6 car train and travelled to Watford, then back to Euston before returning to the SR via Richmond.

 

There is footage of this special (both from the train, and lineside), including the JB hauling the first two cars at Richmond on the TVP DVD "Southern Electric"

 

Brian R

[br2975]

How would 8COR have got onto the NLL or DC lines? Wide body stock was not permitted through Hampstead Heath tunnel unless fitted with window bars so unless special arrangements were made to block the opposite line and to lock windows closed during the tunnel section the train would not have reached Broad Street by that route.

 

A photograph of this special entering Euston was published soon after in Railway World.

 

Brian R

[Pixie]

My uncle was on the 4-COR and 2-BIL tours mentioned, if there's interest I'll dig out his slides from them.

 

Pix

[Xerces Fobe2]

6323 gets a few strange looks at Watford Junction in early 1989

 

There was a recorded working I think it was in 1989 of a Class 416/3 operating a football shuttle between Euston and Wembley I wonder if this was the train and maybe it was laid over at Watford whist the match was on. Maybe I should dig my model or the Class 416/3 out and run football special on my layout as the Croxley Green branch did have Watford Stadium station on it's route!

 

Xerces Fobe

[Oldddudders]

My uncle was on the 4-COR and 2-BIL tours mentioned, if there's interest I'll dig out his slides from them.

 

Pix

If? On here there's always interest! Yes, please!

[robertcwp]

I have some images in my collection of the 4 Cor and 2 Bil tours. They are in this set: SR EMU.

 

There was also a 4 Sub and 2 Bil tour using 4732 and 2090 that went to Croxley Green c1986. I was on it but did not have a camera at the time. The only time I ever went to Croxley Green and it was on a 2 Bil.

[Dieselbob]

Many Thanks

For all your responses to my question.

I have updated the Youtube caption to my Video.

 

Cheers

Bob

[Xerces Fobe2]

I have some images in my collection of the 4 Cor and 2 Bil tours. They are in this set: SR EMU.

 

There was also a 4 Sub and 2 Bil tour using 4732 and 2090 that went to Croxley Green c1986. I was on it but did not have a camera at the time. The only time I ever went to Croxley Green and it was on a 2 Bil.

 

Thanks for the link I have seen some of the photos before however there were some really interesting shots; I particularly liked the 4COR at Willesden Junction. I have a kit of a 2BIL waiting to be built at home for my Croxley WRD layout it will be 2111 as I remember seeing that unit at Clapham Junction in 1971.

 

Xerces Fobe