Cliches on layouts

[7013]

What constitutes a Cliche? The oft quoted GWR branch with its shed, freight depot and livestock pen, one may wish to add a coal yard too. Why are they cliches? I have a book with diagrams of many GWR branch stations with such a set up. So they were quite common and therefore part of my growing up experience. It is only natural then that it is a popular subject. Perhaps because modelling some stations on other regions requires just two platforms, thus most of its traffic is through (either stopping, freight or express). The GWR branch has a lot going for it as a model in that it has all the afore mentioned but frequently acted as a feed to the mainline form various factories/industries in the area, as well as an important hub for farming and the rural community. Take branches like Hook Norton it had a feed from a local Steel works and saw lots of Iron ore traffic. Chipping Norton saw a feed from the local woolen mills, the list goes on as there were numerous feeds from local iron ore quarries. Cliche? It is only a cliche if you do not make it interesting for others to view and understand the history of these branch lines.

[bluebottle]

What constitutes a Cliche? The oft quoted GWR branch with its shed, freight depot and livestock pen, one may wish to add a coal yard too. Why are they cliches? I have a book with diagrams of many GWR branch stations with such a set up. So they were quite common and therefore part of my growing up experience. It is only natural then that it is a popular subject. Perhaps because modelling some stations on other regions requires just two platforms, thus most of its traffic is through (either stopping, freight or express). The GWR branch has a lot going for it as a model in that it has all the afore mentioned but frequently acted as a feed to the mainline form various factories/industries in the area, as well as an important hub for farming and the rural community. Take branches like Hook Norton it had a feed from a local Steel works and saw lots of Iron ore traffic. Chipping Norton saw a feed from the local woolen mills, the list goes on as there were numerous feeds from local iron ore quarries. Cliche? It is only a cliche if you do not make it interesting for others to view and understand the history of these branch lines.

 

Because the GWR branch was part of your growing up experience, 7013, it is only natural then that it is a popular subject? Such solipsism! When I first read "Railway Modeller" in the 1950s, I got the impression that the BLT didn't exist outside GWR territory. The layouts (nearly all based on St Ives in Cornwall) were very attractive, to be sure; clean, dinky in size with nice rural scenery, and wasn't the "Bulldog" the prettiest engine you ever saw? Nothing like the scruffy mainline stations where I did my train spotting.

 

Nowadays, of course, the magazines tell a different story - yes, of course the rest of the UK had its branch lines too, and this is reflected in such gems of layouts as "Amlwch" (LNWR), "King Cross" (GNR/L&Y) and Oxenhope (MR).

 

But surely, 7013, you don't think that the only small stations with facilities for freight were those on GWR branches? From my landing window I can see the remains of one of the intermediate stations on the former GCR Woodhead route: this had a goods yard and coal sidings and links to nearby quarry, brickworks, scrapyard and processed food factory. Most of the stations on the line had some goods facilities, and this was true for nearly all the pre-Beeching railway. For a single track branch with a freight raison d'être, look no further than the KWVR, built to serve the woollens industry.

 

I agree with your basic argument, of course, but lets not make it all about the GWR!

[Ozexpatriate]

What constitutes a Cliche? The oft quoted GWR branch with its shed, freight depot and livestock pen, one may wish to add a coal yard too. Why are they cliches?

 

I agree with your basic argument, of course, but lets not make it all about the GWR!

I don't think it is "all about the GWR". I think 7013 was simply stating that it's a bit unfair to categorize a nice GWR layout as a cliché where a similar layout representing another company might not be considered as such.

 

From wiktionary:

cliché (plural clichés)

 

Something that is overused or used outside its original context, so that its original impact and meaning are lost.

Clearly there were a lot of GWR layouts at one point in time and this has led to the feeling by many that the concept was overused and hence, a cliché.

 

There was an odd convergence on the GWR by manufacturers spanning RTR to plastic kits. Standardized locomotives, somewhat standardized architecture and lots of different locations in pretty countryside with a bit of something for everyone led to their popularity.

 

Personally I think that this thread is really only relevant for exhibition layouts - when people pay for the privilege to view layouts, they bring high expectations. For the rest of us, the "it's my layout, I'll do what I want" rule trumps. But I think we covered this ground before.

[bluebottle]

What constitutes a Cliche? The oft quoted GWR branch with its shed, freight depot and livestock pen, one may wish to add a coal yard too. Why are they cliches?

 

I agree with your basic argument, of course, but lets not make it all about the GWR!

 

I don't think it is "all about the GWR". I think 7013 was simply stating that it's a bit unfair to categorize a nice GWR layout as a cliché where a similar layout representing another company might not be considered as such.

 

 

Yes,quite so. My point was that the merits of BLTs which 7013 stresses are not unique to the GWR.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2011 by bluebottle

[steve fay]

Go and look around your layout and count the cliches. I know I'm guilty of them all. But to me a cliche becomes one when it's over done or just not real ( Dr who )

Sometimes on layouts at shows it keeps people interested what's wrong with that. How many weddings are there every day or funerals or RTA. So shy not on a layout if it's modeled well.

I'm building an O gauge steam shed. It will have a retaining wall behind it it will have access to the sector plate through a tunnel mouth why because I'm fighting for space and these are the most prototypical way of disguising it. I can't think of a better way. It won't be filled with locos but it is somewhere to show case them better than on a mantle peice. I will probably have a broken fence with a few kids peering through, all cliches but hopefully modeled well enough to be believable. Not over done

Like I always here there's a prototype for everything and if the prototype is done well then it shouldn't fall into the cliche

[BlackRat]

Standard scenes or cliches on layouts?..............................Its a bit like saying theres only 26 letters or 8 musical notes, its how you arrange them that matters!

 

 

Something I have not seen modelled but it is a daily occurence...........A Stop Check (as we call them!).

 

Bit different (to me anyway) Cliche? Perhaps, Different......Possibly .........but I like it so tough!

[7013]

I agree with much of what has been said about my posting, of course the scenario I painted was not exclusive to the GWR, however I was trying to amke the point that many GWR branchline layouts (and there were many) did have a bit more going for them than just a country station with trains passing through. If one is going to have a branch station from an observers point of view it is nice to see a bit of activity on a regular basis. Yes I did as stated grow up on the GWR/BR but I would gladly travel to other areas outside GWR influence to see different trains.

Where I live we were fortunate in being able to see all four 'big four' locos in any given day (Banbury-Oxford), so unsurprisingly my latest layout will feature a facility that allows locos from all four regions to 'visit' If it is a cliche so be it, but its good fun.

[The Stationmaster]

Was there any other railway apart from the GWR?

 

I know some stuff from Waterloo may have got to Swagonia but that was just a half hearted attempt at expansion

(better add some smileys afore I get me head bitten off !!)

 

There's a cliche if ever I saw one I suspect one of the biggest cliches in railway modelling - certainly in 4mm scale - is the predominance of 'fashionability' - once upon a time it was GWR BLTs, then we had a dashing of things LMS but especially Midland orientated thanks to the pressure of a group of folk with an LMS interest, and we've had a turning towards things Southern thanks to a couple of r-t-r manufacturers offering the necessary, and we've got the S&DJtR, plus a dedicated band of followers pushing the Waverley Route rather hard, and now we're heading for an LNER springtime (but I'm not sure which bit thereof). And all along the line in between there have been those avoiding the currently fashionable cliche and 'doing something different'. In time I think each of these various swings of prominent interest in the hobby has run the strong chance of turning into its own cliche - it just depends how our inbuilt interests and prejudices recall them or - preferably - ignore them and follow our own chosen course. (and just how many GWR BLTs were there?)

[Pete the Elaner]

GWR BLTs were a product of their time to some extent. The few decent RTR locos of that less-affluent era (late 50s/early 60s) favoured GWR, space was ever a consideration, and Railway Modeller was full of 'em. Imitation is indeed a sincere form of flattery.

 

Today's modeller often has a few more coins in his/her pocket, is often very fond of the modern prototype power and can find lots of different variations on a class, all RTR, all looking good. But space is still an issue, so a shorter, squarer layout, which TMDs permit, may be easier than a long thin branch or main line. Thus also a product of its time, perhaps?

 

I completely agree.

 

A modern BLT would have some houses where the yard used to be & the run round loop would have been lifted. That would leave a platform to be served by a solitary 2 car DMU which would continually run in & out. Not very interesting to operate or watch.

 

Most off us have to compromise on space so a small TMD is often considered a decent compromise.

[Chris Nevard]

This thread is very much an RM web cliché in itself (not a dig) ? Let's not worry as long as we're having fun. Clichés are good, they're like that favourite Sunday roast, a good curry or your favourite pint of ale. It doesn't matter, the important thing is that we are doing some model making I guess

 

Carry on Cliché!

[ozzyo]

My pet cliche that I hate, is a modern layout with clean roads (all the same colour) with no drain covers, manholes, repair work OR potholes, in them.

 

I don't drive but I can still see them.

 

OzzyO.

[BlackRat]

Cliches........whats that all about!

 

People tend to model the nicer things in life! ...........................And why not?????

 

So is it gritty realism or BLT's (no mayo ta) or TMD's?

 

Where are all the toms hanging around the stations, wether thats 50's 70's 0r in the naughties?

 

Modern image (hate that term) where are the burnt out cars, smack heads, doggers etc that are rarely modelled?

 

The lovely sink estates, never see them do we?

 

Alll this stuff is out there, I encounter it on a daily basis, but who would choose to replicate in on a model?

 

Answers not on a postcard please etc................

[James]

where are the doggers that are rarely modelled?

If you modelled my crossing after 2230 on a Friday or Saturday I think you have to modela few of them waiting to go over in their cars!

[trisonic]

I hate "pretty" layouts (well, not hate but you know what I mean) they remind me of Rupert Bear's "Nutwood".

 

You've obviously never heard of the "Sin City" layout based on Toronto which includes a murder scene, prostitutes of three different varieties, drunks, druggies. Abandoned supermarket troliies etc. Do a search.

Whilst that one may be over the top most railways are in grimy areas.....but then most people aren't lucky enough to live in the West Country either!!!!

 

Best, Pete.

[caradoc]

 

You've obviously never heard of the "Sin City" layout based on Toronto which includes a murder scene, prostitutes of three different varieties, drunks, druggies. Abandoned supermarket troliies etc. Do a search.

 

Best, Pete.

 

I'm puzzled....How do you get prostitutes of three different varieties, (I've had a very sheltered upbringing), and can you get them from Preiser or Noch ?

[shortliner]

I hate "pretty" layouts (well, not hate but you know what I mean) they remind me of Rupert Bear's "Nutwood".

 

You've obviously never heard of the "Sin City" layout based on Toronto which includes a murder scene, prostitutes of three different varieties, drunks, druggies. Abandoned supermarket troliies etc. Do a search.

Whilst that one may be over the top most railways are in grimy areas.....but then most people aren't lucky enough to live in the West Country either!!!!

 

Best, Pete.

 

For those who haven't seen it - you'll find it here in all it's grotty, gritty, urban glory http://www.railroad-...?TOPIC_ID=18983 and it might answer Caradocs query

[BlackRat]

Love it!

 

Reminds me of my old patch in Plimufff!

 

I recognised half a dozen characters at least!

 

Tho I guarentee, model that sort of thing over here and no doubt someone would complain!

 

In the meantime, we will stick to those lovely BLT's where all the social deprivation went on behind rose covered arbours!

[shortliner]

Love it!

 

Reminds me of my old patch in Plimufff!

 

I recognised half a dozen characters at least!

 

Tho I guarentee, model that sort of thing over here and no doubt someone would complain!

 

 

I can JUST hear the SCREAMS of outrage! B)

[trisonic]

I'm puzzled....How do you get prostitutes of three different varieties, (I've had a very sheltered upbringing), and can you get them from Preiser or Noch ?

Do you really want to know?

 

Visit me in O'Malley's Bottoms Up bar, buy me a Canadian Club and I'll tell you..........

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

 

[Pacific231G]

When I first read "Railway Modeller" in the 1950s, I got the impression that the BLT didn't exist outside GWR territory. The layouts (nearly all based on St Ives in Cornwall) were very attractive, to be sure; clean, dinky in size with nice rural scenery, and wasn't the "Bulldog" the prettiest engine you ever saw?

It's funny that everyone seems to have had this impression for as long as I can remember because it simply is not true. I've got bound volumes of all the Peco Railway Modellers from the end of 1951 when they took the title over to the early 1960s and though the GWR/WR was probably better represented than any other single railway this was mainly in the form of main line layouts like the North Devonshire and Little Western. The only layout based on St.Ives I could find was a description of Cyril Freezer's own Tregunna "railway in a cupboard".

 

It is true that the branch line layouts included Torpoint and the Culm Valley which were GW but they were outnumbered by the most famous BLTs which were probably Charford (Southern) Berrow (S&D) and Buckingham (GCR).

 

Of the "Railways of the Month" more were generic or freelance than based on a particular railway and there were notable layouts representing the Highland, County Donegal and of course the mythical Craig and Mertonford.

addendum

I've just made a quick count of layout articles in early Railway Modellers - mostly Railways of the Month- through the 1950s up to the end of 1962. Out of 140 articles just 24 were about BLTs and only 10 of those were GW/WR There was though a total of 25 articles about layouts mainly featuring the GWR.

Articles about GW/WR BLTs were actually fewer than the twelve articles on narrow gauge layouts though half of those were about P.D. Hancock's Craig and Mertonford.

 

I think the myth about the preponderance of GW/WR branch line layouts in Railway Modeller got repeated so often that it became accepted wisdom and I think even Cyril Freezer came to believe it but the facts simply don't bear it out.

[Dagworth]

Visit me in O'Malley's Bottoms Up bar

Having heard Nick Cave's 'Murder Ballads' I'll pass on visiting any bar called 0'Malleys

 

Andi

[2ManySpams]

Treneglos is at Melksham show this weekend and in honour of this thread we've placed a bus (no driver or passengers) on the station bridge ;-p

[trisonic]

Having heard Nick Cave's 'Murder Ballads' I'll pass on visiting any bar called 0'Malleys

 

Andi

 

I wonder if that is the reason why the guy modelled it?

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

 

[BlackRat]

Treneglos is at Melksham show this weekend and in honour of this thread we've placed a bus (no driver or passengers) on the station bridge ;-p

 

 

Chris, nice one tho dont forget the Police car parked near the box, shed etc especially at crib (meal) time!

 

Hope The shows a goodun, cant make it which is a shame!

[Oldddudders]

Park a Panda or Area car right outside a station - we certainly were very happy if the bobbies stopped for a cuppa. Sole Street station was one of the last railway Sub-Post-Offices, at least in the SE, and most days there would be a police presence at some stage. Inside the ticket office was a radio tuned to the police frequency, so on arrival that would be turned on, and they could nip out to the car to answer a call!