Cliches on layouts

[Ozexpatriate]

Yep

 

Heres the real one

 

HTH

 

Jim

Impressive. Nice fidelity to prototype.

 

There really is a prototype for everything.

[Oldddudders]

That's not a real horse......

As I believe they say in pantomimes (never been to one, worked in a few!) "Oh, yes it is!" It's real, made of metal, which means it'll last longer than the flesh and blood ones I feed twice a day!

[F-UnitMad]

As I believe they say in pantomimes (never been to one, worked in a few!) "Oh, yes it is!" It's real, made of metal, which means it'll last longer than the flesh and blood ones I feed twice a day!

The 'New St Horse' is just one of a number of similar horse sculptures along the line between New St and Wolverhampton, and they have indeed already been around some time - since 1987 IIRC?

[Guest jim s-w]

 

1980s West Highland Line layouts (37/4's and 156s) were a cliche for a while when I was in my teens.

 

 

Definately so Martin

 

Steve Flint's Kyle of Tongue layout (IIRC) is probably responsible for spawning these.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Tim Hale]

As a resident in a rural community I am fairly aware of the radical changes in British agriculture since the end of WW2, unfortunately these do not seem to have been recognised by modellers unless it is the choice of farm mechanisation but what other agricultural clichés are committed ?

 

The exodus of workforce from the field and farm has forced changes in the countryside as has the cessation of agricultural traffic on the rail- it is not just a matter of the withdrawal of cattle wagons, even the contents of those wagons has changed and I can recall the arrival of the all conquering Holsteins to the West Country but please remember that they were an alien breed until the 60's. Many of our native breeds have disappeared as milk or beef producers however breed associations keep the memories alive and a quick repaint is all that is needed in most cases but it would be useful to have some accurate models of shorthorns or Devon reds.

 

British livestock associations.

[coachmann]

It would be a shame if 'muck & brass' layouts based in Pennine mill towns became a cliché, as they were such a refreshing change in reality after donkey's years of summertime country branch lines. On 'totherhand, having lived in a foreboding mill town, I can understand the popularity of a country BLT.

[newbryford]

 

Cornish Clay I think has definately been there too...I love the genre personally but I will nominate it as i'm pretty sure it generates more than it's own weight in layouts -

 

Cornish China Clay will probably be there again soon, with the new releases from Dapol/Kernow.

 

I'd also like to nominate the next cliche in modern layouts. Infrastructure depots full of JJA autoballasters, JNA falcons, IOA's, MRA's, etc............

 

(In fact, I'm thinking about one myself........!)

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Mikkel]

Bridge - Check

3 buses - check

 

:D

 

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

In realty there should be more!

In my view, this is a perfect example of the need to "understate" in modelling sometimes. As you say Jim, in reality there should have been more vehicles but it would probably have looked too toylike. No doubt you have carefully considered the number and type of vehicles, and I am guessing that it is no coincidence how the vehicles on the curves subtley indicate the flow and shape of things.

 

I suppose that's one of the reasons why clichés can sometimes be jarring: If they were just plonked on to the layout without much thought, because "we've got to have one of those" - as opposed to the careful consideration and crafting of things seen in this photo.

[coachmann]

I'd also like to nominate the next cliche in modern layouts. Infrastructure depots full of JJA autoballasters, JNA falcons, IOA's, MRA's, etc............

Ah yes, and Liverpool Street outer suburban workings with L1's and Gresley non-corridors plus B17 hauled expresses....

[skipepsi]

There is a particular knot used by lorry drivers and farmers before the advent of the nylon strop that could apply sufficent tension to the rope to pull the eyelet out of a tarpaulin or bend the anchor point or if pulled hard enough snap the rope itself. It worked with a series of loops and would hold several tons of hay in place on simple trailers across uneven ground. I would assume that if it was taught to lorry drivers then the railway had it before then. Natural ropes do stretch when wet so a taut wagon sheet would sag as its ropes became soaked in transit or sat in a yard. I know my dad was pleased when he got a quantity of nylon rope used by the telephone workers for pulling cables through. He hated flapping tarpaulins and regarded it as a sign of a poor driver.

[MarkSG]

There is a particular knot used by lorry drivers and farmers before the advent of the nylon strop that could apply sufficent tension to the rope to pull the eyelet out of a tarpaulin or bend the anchor point or if pulled hard enough snap the rope itself. It worked with a series of loops and would hold several tons of hay in place on simple trailers across uneven ground. I would assume that if it was taught to lorry drivers then the railway had it before then.

 

It's called a "harvester's hitch" or "hay knot", which gives a clue as to its origins. It certainly predates both trucks and railways, so I'd expect that it was used on the railways as well as roads.

 

Mark

[Arthur]

It's not(!) really a knot in the sense that it's used to apply tension to the rope after which the rope still needs to be tied off. I was taught it by an old hand in the early '80s though we were using tensioned straps by then. You essentially form a hanging loop in the rope, drop the loose rope end down through the hanging loop, around the hitching cleat, back up through the hanging loop and pull down to tension. In essence you've created a 2:1 pulley system and it doubles your tensioning effort. You can put several in a single length of rope as you move down the trailer.

[mudmagnet]

Reading through this thread, it would appear to me that there are two types of cliche - those bits seen on layouts (weddings, RTA, Tardis etc) and 'cliche layout'. As far as the latter is concerned, it appears to me that the cliche layout type varies over time, from GWR BLT to diesel depot to Cornish clay etc - and is largely driven but what is avaliable from the manufacturers. I'm sure that we will now see quite a few layouts with the new Bachmann 7F for example (largely because it is a very good model and therefore popular).

 

All layouts are a cliche to some degree - track plans, buildings, bridges etc etc. We do have a tendancy to 'copy' other ideas we see either on the prototype or other models. I am quite happy to model what I do and enjoy doing it! Everyone should be able to model what they please.

 

However, cliches on layouts (Tardis etc) - I do find that these are completely over-done (on exhibition layouts) and largely unnecessary. I would also add seeing figures in 'action' poses - something that I think should be avoided - signs of life can be shown with open windows etc. People of BLT platforms should be minimal. I think that where these cliches are modelled shows a lack of imagination and observation of the real thing. There are better ways to add details / signs of life - just takes some effort to look around when travelling and through photos.

[coachmann]

We do have a tendancy to 'copy' other ideas we see either on the prototype or other models

Copying things we see on the prototype? I'm all for it if it leads to more accurate clichés....

[Coombe Barton]

as for model railways based on real places the number of times I've read 'Ashburton'- as a small space terminus article in the modelling press, does that mean real locations can become cliches?

Maybe - but 11ft from mill to platform isn't small - and without the shunting rope you try working out how you're going to shunt it in model form. Cliche it may be (and I'm adopting a fully signalled version) but it's still a cracking place to model.

 

..., having lived in a foreboding mill town, I can understand the popularity of a country BLT.

Ashburton station was at the grotty end of town, unber works, mill, darned great chimney, coal merchants, cattle market across the road with attendant perfume, gasworks, raw concrete blocks under the coach body, which was itself covered in bitumen, The now renamed 'Station Hotel' (was it?) is now the Silent Whistle.It was also pretty wet when the Ashburn flooded. (http://www.ashburton.org/history.htm third pic down) The Ashburn runs just behind the station.

[Coombe Barton]

It's called a "harvester's hitch" or "hay knot", which gives a clue as to its origins. It certainly predates both trucks and railways, so I'd expect that it was used on the railways as well as roads.

 

Having just found out what it's called from here just looked for a website for detail - and found the scouts website for knots - http://www.pioneeringmadeeasy.co.uk/knotsandlash/harvesthitch.html - thanks

[F-UnitMad]

It's called a "harvester's hitch" or "hay knot", which gives a clue as to its origins. It certainly predates both trucks and railways, so I'd expect that it was used on the railways as well as roads.

 

I've always known it as / heard other drivers call it - a "Dolly Knot".

 

Reading about it here also reminds me how embarrassingly long ago it is since I last had to use it...

[Arthur]

I know it as a dolly knot too. Still use it occaisionally when securing hay/straw on my Ifor Williams trailer.

[Natalie]

You have also omitted a Tardis, Dalek, Trotters Independent Trading Van, Grim Reaper, run-over "The End is Nigh" man,

 

Coming back from the NEC after the model railway exhibition last year, I was confronted by the sight of a full size Dalek complete with a Matt Smith lookalike waiting on the platform for a train to Coventry. Train pulls in (class 350/1)and Dalek boards train with assistance of the loading ramp. A bit unnerving sharing a door vestibule with a life sized Dalek pointing his weapons at you. What was amusing was the fact that most people on the train took absolutey no notice. We all got off (weapon now averted) at Coventry where Doctor Who led his aluminium companion off along the platform, over the footbridge and through the booking hall- and no-one batted an eyelid!

 

(There had been an event on at the NEC which the Dalek had attended- as an exhibitor..)

[Julia]

I can see the argument in the GWR branchline terminus being a bit of a cliche in modelling terms. Dare I suggest this is probably as much about availability of suitable stock and motive power as it is modellers' choice?

This certaily appears true in the RTR N gauge steam market, as is the post war steam/transition period.

 

 

I was pondering this recently.

 

The two big cliches I see are:

 

1) Yet Another bl**dy: transition era layout (read: I want to run both steam AND diesel)

 

2) YAB: GWR BLT (the fact it can be described entirely with an acronym is not a good sign...)

 

With 1 it actually kinda makes some sense, the era when steam ended and diesel/electric kicked off is a really interesting period to model, but, when everyone does it, how does one layout stick out amongst the rest?

 

With 2, the GWR BLT is less of an issue these days, but my big fear is that we are soon going to get the Southern Region BLT, now that southern EMU's DEMU's and steam locos are all being produced off the shelf. Will Oast houses and hop plantations become the standard accessory scenery for the new wave of BR (S) BLT?

 

That said, I am modelling a Southern Region branch line terminus in the late 50's early 60's... So I am as guilty as anyone else, its just an interesting period to model. I just need to make sure that my layout has that extra something to put it above the rest...

 

J

 

 

 

 

 

[Julia]

 

Possibly of equal concern would be big 4/6/8 track sheds full of parked up "on shed" locos's where there are no additional facilities and the adjacent station only has space for one of those locos and 3 carriages. The ubiquitous MPD/TMD is only there to show off the sheer number of locos in the collection, to exercise a cacophony of sound chips, or to blink lights under the glare of yard lighting towers

 

 

 

This is something that I find amazing, the number of layouts I see where they are jammed full of track and loco's. You only need to look at some of the threads on other modelling forums to see a layout progress thread that goes something like:

 

"Gonna make an MPD"

 

"built baseboard, layed track"

 

"bought a class 37"

 

"bought a class 66"

 

"bought a gronk"

 

"bought another class 37"

 

"bought another class 37"

 

"oops, went to buy some ballast and returned with a class 60, forgot the ballast"

 

"bought another class 60"

 

etc....

 

When you look at the price of UK image loco's vs German image stock from the likes of Roco, the contrast between them is rather high, as much as 2-4 times the price for German stock, and as such, a lot of the continental image layouts we see aren't "ooh yay look at my loco collection" and are infact more "look at my nice layout, and ooh look a train".

 

I had this realisation with my narrow gauge layout when I realised that I could cut my shopping list in half as I could never run that many loco's on a single track line...

 

J

[James]

1) Yet Another bl**dy: transition era layout (read: I want to run both steam AND diesel)

I think it reflects, certainly over the last fifteen years or so, the age of the modellers building them. In my dad's case, that's the era he remembers! And for me (as well as my pre-group interests) its just interesting with so much variety.

 

With 1 it actually kinda makes some sense, the era when steam ended and diesel/electric kicked off is a really interesting period to model, but, when everyone does it, how does one layout stick out amongst the rest?

North Shields - end of!

[Guest jim s-w]

I was pondering this recently.

 

With 1 it actually kinda makes some sense, the era when steam ended and diesel/electric kicked off is a really interesting period to model, but, when everyone does it, how does one layout stick out amongst the rest?

 

 

Hi Julia

 

Easy, transition era with WCML electrics. I don't think I have ever seen it modelled.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Guest jim s-w]

In my view, this is a perfect example of the need to "understate" in modelling sometimes. As you say Jim, in reality there should have been more vehicles but it would probably have looked too toylike. No doubt you have carefully considered the number and type of vehicles, and I am guessing that it is no coincidence how the vehicles on the curves subtley indicate the flow and shape of things.

 

 

Thanks Mikkel

 

But to be honest I am not that clever. Some vehicles are modelled with their wheels turned as I have a corner in mind but the rest are just plonked and shuffled until I think it looks ok.

 

This leads met to another cliche. How often have you seen it said that you should model road vehicles with their front wheels angled to look more realistic? Go and watch traffic for a bit and you soon see that wheels are kinda straight most of the time. Unless the vehicle is actually going round a corner drivers don't weave down the road. Also a lot of drivers straighten up when they park too. Parked vehicles with angled steering are the exception not the norm.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[coachmann]

The transition era in modelling terms probably looks dead interesting 50 years on. Time is a good leveler. Since moving my time-period from the early 1950s to 1958 I'm looking at things afresh seeing as so much had changed in the intervening years. And yes, there is scope now for a DMU or two!