RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2012 I agree that sdgs aren't necessarily numbered on signal box diagrams, but sdg roads are certainly numbered in yards, carr sdgs and the like. Three examples (from different companies); Toton (LMS) - West Yard numbered away from the running lines (1-18) followed by the East Yard (19-37) Colwick (LNER) - Western and Eastern reception sdgs numbered away from running line (1-12) Bournemouth West Carr Sdgs / Traincare Depot - Roads numbered away from the former line to West station Regards, Peter It was usual practice to number, or in some cases name, sidings in large yards although I think it was probably rare for them to be officially named in local goods yards etc (but I know that some Pre-Group Railways did so). Numbering conventions varied between Companies and even within Companies and some made it a habit to number going away from the nearest running line - whichever side it was - while others seem consistently to have kept No.1 Siding on a particular side of their running lines. Another method was to number from left to right - but you needed to know which way you were looking to know where left was. In my (Western) experience it was not too common to find individual siding numbers on signalbox diagrams although names could be shown and the name or numbers of groups of sidings could be shown but this was only, I think, usual, if the name also appeared in a signal route indicator or on a lever lead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 The diagram is not (lever) numbered correctly, I assumed it was representative rather than a true attempt at a signal box diagram. Absolutely correct!! truth is I have used the numbers of my point motors and signal buttons as per my control panel. I did try and number the point motors correctly but as you can probably tell, the board was upside down at the time!! As for siding numbers, I just needed to identify them for timetable purposes. I would like to develop this into a proper signal box diagram, hence the reason for posting it in the hope that some of you more knowledgeable types might point me in the right direction. I have made no attempt to include FPL's or Track circuits both of which would be good to include so as to give an idea of frame size/box size. Rather than bore the non signallers on this thread, maybe we could use the other thread on signalling for this!! I will post a fresh diagram on there. John E (in hopeful anticipation). http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37171-bradfield-gs-help-requested-re-signalling-scheme/page__fromsearch__1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 How educational it would be to watch, or operate, a layout where the signals were controlled by one (or more) and the trains driven by others - to a timetable and in accordance with the signals of course. Keep up the good work John, looking forward as ever to the next installment(s). Look out for Battersby North End on the circuit - especially if I'm on signalling duties! ANY misdemeanour is duly noted in my black book and dealt with accordingly..... The shunt discs in my area when I was on the railways were generally referred to as just that. Sometimes they were also called shunt dollies. Just to contradict beast, I'm sure the box diagram at Bridlington South listed carriage sidings 1 - 3 on the box diagram. I'm not 100%, but I do have an old diagram somewhere from when the signalling was altered, so I'll root it out. Some fantastic work on here and you'll see from above, I've managed to read through to page seven so far. Looking forward to the next pages. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 Look out for Battersby North End on the circuit - especially if I'm on signalling duties! ANY misdemeanour is duly noted in my black book and dealt with accordingly..... And Widnes, The shunt discs in my area when I was on the railways were generally referred to as just that. Sometimes they were also called shunt dollies. Just to contradict beast, I'm sure the box diagram at Bridlington South listed carriage sidings 1 - 3 on the box diagram. I'm not 100%, but I do have an old diagram somewhere from when the signalling was altered, so I'll root it out. You're not contradicting me, you are simply confirming that using one regions practice to illustrate another is not usually correct - unless Bridlington was on the LM ? Besides. there are always "one" offs which can be brought up, generally modelling the "norm" means you are likely to be doing it right, trying to reproduce one offs, many years after the original, with no knowledge of the whys and wherefores is a waste of energy imho (I'm not specifically referring to numbering sidings here) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 And Widnes, You're not contradicting me, you are simply confirming that using one regions practice to illustrate another is not usually correct - unless Bridlington was on the LM ? Besides. there are always "one" offs which can be brought up, generally modelling the "norm" means you are likely to be doing it right, trying to reproduce one offs, many years after the original, with no knowledge of the whys and wherefores is a waste of energy imho (I'm not specifically referring to numbering sidings here) It was still in deepest Yorkshire last time I looked beast. I'll still root out my box diagram to check the numbers as I'm wondering myself now if I'm right or not..... It's an age thing you know..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The term Dolies was used where I worked but I just wanted it clarified to see if my old memory was letting me down. When I was on a loco up Miles Platting Bank the driver told me to watch out for.........???And I cant remember what he called the signals. gulp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 The term Dolies was used where I worked but I just wanted it clarified to see if my old memory was letting me down. When I was on a loco up Miles Platting Bank the driver told me to watch out for.........???And I cant remember what he called the signals. gulp. Pegs ? or Boards ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 Pegs ? or Boards ? Another north of England term for signals I came across years ago was 'sticks'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calimero Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Great great layout, really giving me inspiration on the design of my layout. Do you have any close up pictures of the sector plate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Great great layout, really giving me inspiration on the design of my layout. Do you have any close up pictures of the sector plate? Only this one taken back in the early days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Some of you may have noticed the monitor screen that sits above the station end of the layout, it can be seen in the previous post. This screen is used to display the timetable and sequence of moves required to achieve the timetable. It was originally designed for the operators but I soon realised that the viewing public may also be interested in what was going on, so I included brief details of arrivals and departures and mounted it so that it can be seen by both viewers and operators. Whilst exhibiting at Tonbridge, I overheard a conversation at the front of the layout where someone commented that they understood the top half but the rest they hadn't a clue but obviously it meant something to me!! This prompted me to review the display with the intention of making it more meaningful and informative to the viewer whilst still fulfilling its function to the operators. I first experimented with MS Powerpoint presentation software to no avail. I therefore stuck with my MS Access database and re jigged the display form. I also decided to use a laptop that could be viewed by the operators but would also power the monitor screen, duplicating its display for the viewers. After a few tweaks, I am reasonably satisfied with the results and hopefully this will be in operation at Nottingham this weekend. We have a training session tomorrow that will also give it a good run through. For those interested in this sort of thing, I give below a screen shot by way of example. The top panels gives the time and main event. The middle panel is a narrative of what is happening in plain language, intended for the viewer but also of importance to the operators. At the bottom is the operators notes telling the fiddle yard operator what to do, in this case that the Morecombe Prom will arrive into the fiddle yard departures road, a corridor second is to be added and the coaches (CW2) are to be moved to fiddle yard siding 1B then a DMU (U2) is to be moved into the fiddle yard departure road (FYD). On the right is the loco roster, mainly for operators but the viewer may also be interested in what loco's are on the layout. Below this are the navigation buttons to move forward or backward to the next event. The Quit button is fairly obvious but it also runs a macro that saves the current time so that I can continue from where I left off. The Setup Roster button takes you to a new screen where available locos are allocated to a Roster No. The DCC Code is fairly obvious but is useful for the operators as it does not always coincide with the loco number, as in this case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 A couple more examples with relevant photos. and another.. Hopefully self explanatory. Informative? Anyone notice the obvious mistake? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hopefully self explanatory. Informative? Anyone notice the obvious mistake? The train appears to have arrived in P2, contrary to the display? Informative - unquestionably. Must admit I didn't scrutinise at TN, but felt the display itself was a marvellous idea. I'd seen layouts with printed summaries, often intended - and big enough for - the viewer to appreciate, but this is so C21! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Full marks for observation Ian, the photo was a setup but I have recently swapped all the services from P2 to P3 and vice versa, didn't notice till it was too late, ho hum. The vans should not be in P1 either at this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2012 Having in my younger days supervised the working on occasions at Cannon St, Charing X and London Bridge, I think your very minor alterations on the day are trivial in the extreme. Your attention to this degree of operating detail separates you from most modellers, certainly. Very impressed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Williams Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I am just catching up on this thread and am sitting here with my mouth open. Superb modelling. So far I have just looked at the pictures, so apologies if this may have been mentioned somwhere, but how do you manage to get all your window apertures so beautifully crisp and accurate, as well as in perfect alignment? Particularly as you look to be using fairly substantial thickness plastic sheet. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I am just catching up on this thread and am sitting here with my mouth open. Superb modelling. So far I have just looked at the pictures, so apologies if this may have been mentioned somwhere, but how do you manage to get all your window apertures so beautifully crisp and accurate, as well as in perfect alignment? Particularly as you look to be using fairly substantial thickness plastic sheet. Steve Hi Steve, glad you like it. Truth is the plastic sheet is only 40thou so fairly easy to cut. The embossed stonework is laminated on in smaller sections along with the stone courses which allows you to line them up fairly accurately. John E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Williams Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hi Steve, glad you like it. Truth is the plastic sheet is only 40thou so fairly easy to cut. The embossed stonework is laminated on in smaller sections along with the stone courses which allows you to line them up fairly accurately. John E I'm sure it wouldn't be that easy if I tried it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2012 9/10 for spelling. Morecambe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suddaby Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Ah I often wondered what all that gobbledegook at the bottom of the screen meant!! :laugh: :laugh: By the way John, have you seen the thread about Book Launches at Nottingham, better bring your wallet! Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Only 9/10 for spelling? I couldn't see much wrong apart from me personally liking 24 hour times on the display. Keep up the good work - this layout is showing us how exhibition layouts should and could be presented to the public. At least if the anoraks are reading the screen they may not be asking stupid questions! That is, if they can read and have remembered their glasses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2012 Keep up the good work - this layout is showing us how exhibition layouts should and could be presented to the public. At least if the anoraks are reading the screen they may not be asking stupid questions! That is, if they can read and have remembered their glasses. In fairness, in The Laird's era, the 12-hour clock was usual. And the display is very large and very clear. Anyone unable to read it obviously had no toys as a child! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leander Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 9/10 for spelling. Morecambe Beast beat me to it! Will see you around 1.00pm for the final training session before Nottingham and will bring the Gibbo shortie axled coach wheels for the Lima parcels vans. Looking forward to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Oh, I get it - from 12,000 km away the spelling of place names would slip past! I'm wise to it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suddaby Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 9/10 for spelling. Morecambe Well, that's because it's the timetable wot I rote! :sungum: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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