Manchester Central, CLC & GN Warehouses & Castlefield Viaducts

[Shadow]

Went to have a look at that canal scene for real, and instantly it looked the same

 

http://canalplan.org.uk/gazetteer/ef9q

 

Excellent

[Ron Heggs]

Went to have a look at that canal scene for real, and instantly it looked the same

 

http://canalplan.org.uk/gazetteer/ef9q

 

Excellent

 

The water is cleaner, but the weeds still proliferate. The railway arches now house canalside cafes, etc.

[Arthur]

Yes, it's a considerably more salubrious area now than it was for many a year. In 1977 I had the 'pleasure' of taking a narrow boat up the Rochdale canal from it's junction with the Bridgewater canal up through to Piccadillly where it joined the Ashton (?) canal. Though the rest of the network was under British Waterways control, the Rochdale Canal Company still owned and operated that two or so miles. We were forced to spend the night moored up by a lock on Canal Street.

 

In stark contrast to today, the area then represented the dark and seedy underbelly of the city, the canal virtually derelict, warehouses looming over it and the night time inhabitants were, er, strange to say the least.

[phixer64]

Simply in words "wow"

[Brass0four]

 

I've been pondering for several days over an appropriate response to the structures-layout that let us appreciate the work done so far. Quite apart from the excellence of the modelling, there is one major factor that impresses me most: - most of us would have been mentally crippled by the shear immensity of such a mass of work, lying out in front of us for year upon year - with never a train run! Even if we have lengthy projects, they are broken up into "get something running" bites, thus enthusiasm is fostered; but with your work, it is only by putting everything together in relationship that even you - no matter the quality of the drafted plans - can glimpse the entirety whilst judging the labour still ahead...

 

Staggering!

 

No doubt this layout will be a renowned Classic.

 

Tony.

[GJChurchward]

Ron's been quiet for a few days.  The anticipation of another mind-blowing update is beginning to build...

[PaternosterRow]

Simply, WOW!

[d winpenny]

Looking absolutely superb

 

David

[Ron Heggs]

Ron's been quiet for a few days.  The anticipation of another mind-blowing update is beginning to build...

Yes, and just a few more days

 

Have my sister-in-law and her daughter staying with us this week - so modelling time has been cut to NIL   

 

Will be back late weekend with some more modelling pictures - trying to keep as many items going at once, rather than concentrating on one item - it makes it look as though more progress is being made

 

Cheers

 

Ron

[GJChurchward]

Yes, and just a few more days

 

Have my sister-in-law and her daughter staying with us this week - so modelling time has been cut to NIL   

 

Will be back late weekend with some more modelling pictures - trying to keep as many items going at once, rather than concentrating on one item - it makes it look as though more progress is being made

 

Cheers

 

Ron

 

That's the downside of having a place in the sun, Ron.  When I get around to building the main line between Birmingham (Snow Hill) and Wolverhampton (Low Level), I'll do it where no one will ever want to come and interrupt my endeavours by wanting to stay awhile for a holiday.  (Hmm... that's probably Birmingham or Wolverhampton, then.)

 

Andy

[Ron Heggs]

I have decided to arrange my modelling time in a more suitable way -

 

Mornings - None precision work

Afternoons - Drawing/Printing/Precision work

Evenings - Precision and tedious work

 

In trying to move forward with the main trackwork i.e. station approach, the outline viaduct brickwork structures need to be put in place so that the positions of the turnouts/motors, etc. can be fixed and the track baseboarding supports can be positioned with fixing points for the viaduct structures

 

I have therefore started with the canal side viaduct structure which runs from Deansgate to Albion Street, some 2300mm+

 

The first section - Crown Street to Albion Street - 1920mm

 

1.35mm card - 2 x 760mm + 1 x 400mm

 

Printed brickwork on 185gsm card - 3 x 640mm (largest 185gsm card available is 450mm x 650mm)

 

Cut and folded

 

Card with 5mm foamboard backing structure

 

First section with brickwork fixed

 

Structure placed in the canal trench - Foam baseboard to the rear will be cut to enable the structure to be moved and fixed into its correct location

 

Note:

When printing on long lengths of card, an allowance of 1mm per 400mm is made for the subsequent drying shrinkage due to the large area of card receiving printing ink

 

Some can be reclaimed by applying adhesive over long lengths and using slight stretching pressure as the card is being fixed. This can also present problems in smoothing damp card which can cause the surface to break up

[unclebobkt]

 

-- Ron.,

 

- A query, if I may.

- Going back all the way to posting #1. you write that 'Dimensions were obtained from reference to historical erngineering drawings, (The Engineer, 13feb80.)'.

- Living o'seas. I'm unlikely to be able to access the quoted copy of The Engr., so perhaps I might avail of your greater knowledge?

- I've passed a few and happy hours availing of search-engine Google to look-at various & arched train-sheds' roofs; I see that M'chester. Centl. is quoted as having a span of 209.97.ft. and an height of 90.oo.ft..

- Looking-at your engr's. drg. how were the two loci for the radii of either side of the slightly flattened, (at the apex), & latticed arched ribs obtained? Is there some convenient formula with data span & height that fixes those points? Was it a type of trial & error?

- I suppose that were all else to fail I could avail of the a/m. drg, and scale it to obtain those two points - but that doesn't strike me as either an elegant or an engineer's solution.

[Horsetan]

Had to scrap a few of the sandstone details, as they were not up to an acceptable standard.....

 

In the context of the rest of Ron's magnum opus, the above gets my vote for best throwaway remark of the year.

[Ron Heggs]

-- Ron.,

 

- A query, if I may.

- Going back all the way to posting #1. you write that 'Dimensions were obtained from reference to historical erngineering drawings, (The Engineer, 13feb80.)'.

- Living o'seas. I'm unlikely to be able to access the quoted copy of The Engr., so perhaps I might avail of your greater knowledge?

- I've passed a few and happy hours availing of search-engine Google to look-at various & arched train-sheds' roofs; I see that M'chester. Centl. is quoted as having a span of 209.97.ft. and an height of 90.oo.ft..

- Looking-at your engr's. drg. how were the two loci for the radii of either side of the slightly flattened, (at the apex), & latticed arched ribs obtained? Is there some convenient formula with data span & height that fixes those points? Was it a type of trial & error?

- I suppose that were all else to fail I could avail of the a/m. drg, and scale it to obtain those two points - but that doesn't strike me as either an elegant or an engineer's solution.

Hi,

 

Try this link for a PDF version of 'The Engineer' 13th Feb 1880 http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/a/af/Er18800213.pdf

 

The pages of relevance are 122 and 124

 

The drawings don't have the centre points dimensioned, but they can be determined as follows -

 

The central arched portion of the roof to the u/s of the trussed span has a radius of 90' 4" with an included angle of 40^o

 

If each of the outer radial lines are extended backwards to an overall length of 143' 6", this will give the two centres for the middle arch portions of 143' 6", each of which has an included angle of 30^o

 

The final outer arch sections have radii of 54' 3" measured along the outer radials from the previous arch sections, and each have an included angle of 40^o

 

Hope this helps

 

Cheers

 

Ron

[unclebobkt]

      Ron.,

 

 - Many thanks for yr. comprehensive reply above: posting #1,670. - appreciated!

 - Plenty of reading and then subsequent calculations - not that I'm a mathsmagician by any means! - they'll keep me out of mishchief for many a long day, (possibly a good thing? Ha!),.

 

      Bestest - unclebobkt..

[unclebobkt]

      - Many thanks for yr. comprehensive reply above: posting #1,670. - appreciated!

 

      Ron.,

  Further to your above reply mentioning The Engineer. of 13 feb. 1880. and particularly the two pages mentioned;  which I have read and shall re-read.

  Quite by chance, as one writes,  on page 127. I noticed a review of the following book: 'Euclid and his modern rivals.' by Charles L. Dodgson, (1832-'98.);  the author who is better known as Lewis Carroll!

  Apologies for this aside.

      Bestest - unclebobkt..

Edited October 3, 2013 by unclebobkt

[Ron Heggs]

In conjunction with the canal side viaduct build (pictures soon), all the trackwork templates have been printed (that's 247 A4 pages)

 

The approach trackwork pages (60+) are being stitched together, so that that they can fixed to new plywood baseboarding before fitting in the relevant position on the layout. The foamboard under the track boards will be removed, to give full under board access to the trackwork

 

Will post pictures when completed

[hayfield]

In conjunction with the canal side viaduct build (pictures soon), all the trackwork templates have been printed (that's 247 A4 pages)

 

The approach trackwork pages (60+) are being stitched together, so that that they can fixed to new plywood baseboarding before fitting in the relevant position on the layout. The foamboard under the track boards will be removed, to give full under board access to the trackwork

 

Will post pictures when completed

Ron

 

Looking forward to the track building part. I use Templot and sometimes wonder if the plans may stretch a bit in the printing process as I use one or the cheaper (top brand) ink jet printers.

 

Just found the turnouts (pages 57 &58) pictures of trackwork look very good

Edited October 6, 2013 by hayfield

[unclebobkt]

      Hi,

Try this link for a PDF version of 'The Engineer' 13th Feb 1880 http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/a/af/Er18800213.pdf

The pages of relevance are 122 and 124

  ... .

Cheers

      Ron

 

      Ron.,

 

  With reference to The Engineer of Feb. 13,1880 - page 124 and to the main drg. entitled: Roof of the new Central Station, Manchester.' - a query, if I may?

>1.- Assumption - The roof is the UPPER segment of a clock/watch, with the Clear span line at Springing Level representing a line connecting 09.hrs. & 03.hrs., of 210.'00." ;  the Crown is at 12hrs., 84'.00". from Springing Level;

>2.- Data: Major Radii of 143'. 06"., minor radii of  54'.03".;

>3.- Query: what are the two measurements shewn at approx. 11.hrs. & 01.hrs. ?  To me they look like 5'. 04.".

  Your confirmation or correction would be appreciated.

 

      Bestest from unclebobkt..

[Ron Heggs]

      Ron.,

 

  With reference to The Engineer of Feb. 13,1880 - page 124 and to the main drg. entitled: Roof of the new Central Station, Manchester.' - a query, if I may?

>1.- Assumption - The roof is the UPPER segment of a clock/watch, with the Clear span line at Springing Level representing a line connecting 09.hrs. & 03.hrs., of 210.'00." ;  the Crown is at 12hrs., 84'.00". from Springing Level;

>2.- Data: Major Radii of 143'. 06"., minor radii of  54'.03".;

>3.- Query: what are the two measurements shewn at approx. 11.hrs. & 01.hrs. ?  To me they look like 5'. 04.".

  Your confirmation or correction would be appreciated.

 

      Bestest from unclebobkt..

Hi,

 

The two measurements are shown as 9' 04", which are I believe miswritten 90' 04" radial dimensions, and work well with the other dimensions given

 

Cheers

 

Ron

[Ron Heggs]

With the railway room now full of layout baseboard, and the workshop unable to accommodate cutting a sheet of plywood 1.22m x 2.50 m, I can only cut the plywood outside - Rain stopped play yesterday, but happily play resumed today

 

The ply is cut and the track templates temporarily fixed, so that the locations for the turnout motors can be marked and cut before the ply is fixed on it's supports varying from 65mm to 120mm due to the grading of the road/ground levels which fall away from the station, and the track gradient which rises away from the station

 

Pictures soon

 

Ron

[phixer64]

In conjunction with the canal side viaduct build (pictures soon), all the trackwork templates have been printed (that's 247 A4 pages)

 

The approach trackwork pages (60+) are being stitched together, so that that they can fixed to new plywood baseboarding before fitting in the relevant position on the layout. The foamboard under the track boards will be removed, to give full under board access to the trackwork

 

Will post pictures when completed

First we have a shortage of evergreen strip, and glue. Now I feel that there will a shortage  of copperclad sleepers and track. Excellent modelling as usual Ron, keep up the fantastic work.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2013 by phixer64

[unclebobkt]

      Hi,

The two measurements are shown as 9' 04", which are I believe miswritten 90' 04" radial dimensions, and work well with the other dimensions given

      Cheers.    Ron

 

        Ron.,

  Thanks for yr. confirm'n. of 9'. 04". and for them working well with the other data.

  FYI. I shall be attempting to make a drg. to a scale of 1". = 8'.,  or 1/96th. if my maths. is to be believed;  this scale will fit-in well with my Engrs'. rules wch. are divided down to 1/64th".,  wch. I think is accurate enough;  after all, this pjt. is more for my own amusement than for any serious modelling.

      Bestest - unclebobkt..  :-)

Edited October 8, 2013 by unclebobkt

[Ron Heggs]

Most of the 5mm plywood track baseboard is in place (6mm is not available locally)  -

 

The CLC Deansgate Bridge is top centre. The Rochdale Canal is running mid left to top centre. Albion Street is in the foreground, and Great Bridgewater Street is on the right. The plywood over Great Bridgewater Street has yet to be cut and fitted

 

All 24 turnout motor cut-outs in this part of the approach trackwork are shown. Two of the larger cutouts shown below are double nose to toe motor locations

 

The CLC Deansgate Bridge is to the right. The Plate Girder Bridge Panels are shown for Crown Street and the Western end of Trafford Street

 

The Plate Girder Bridge Panel for Eastern end of Trafford Street is shown here with the outline for the 66' Station Turntable neatly sandwiched between the Trafford Street Tunnel and the edge of the viaduct wall overlooking the Rochdale Canal

 

Looking over Watson Street with Great Bridgewater Street running across the picture with the Western end girder bridge panel laid across

 

The board with the GNR Warehouse and Goods Yard has been rolled out to give a 500mm access gap shown in the centre of the picture

 

A part of the approach trackwork template has been rolled out to give a view of it's intended location

 

The two tracks to the turntable are shown on the left. The tracks serving Platforms 8 & 9 with the release road the middle of the three are in the foreground. The single track serves bay platform 7. Next 9 tracks serve Platforms 6 to 1 with their release roads, and the top two tracks serve the CLC goods yard and warehouse

 

When the the plywood over Great Bridgewater Street is in place the cork track base will be fitted, and a start on the track lift/hoist for access to the Train Shed tracks will be made

Edited October 10, 2013 by Ron Heggs

[phixer64]

Hi Ron, this just gets better and better, fantastic as always.