James Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 The last thread I posted on detailing an older diesel seemed to be quite well received so here is, I'm afraid, another example... The model wll be one of Immingham's class 47's, no 47 294. I've found various photos of it but the one which made me decide which of the Immingham ones I wanted to do was this - http://merlinsgaller.../p56889680.html With it being on an ex-Scunthorpe steel working was even better! But the model will be in a condition more typical of the breed, something more like this - http://paulwaring.fo.../p62286123.html The starting point is rather low-tech. It was a toy-fair purchase for £16! It was in the correct livery too which was a bonus. The triple grey is pretty good, nice and thin too - with replacement sector markings it'll be spot on. Oh yeah, and it's a Lima model! It was well packed for an unboxed toyfair find too. The plan had been to replace the mechanism with either that from a Proto1000/2000 PA-1 or spare Heljan bogies, but when I tested it it ran surprisingly well! With a couple of hours' running in it was rather nice. Not as smooth as a central-motored model but very good and more than good enough for the duties I had in mind for it. So a spare set of Ultrascales at last found a new home. It does have short comings, I'd be a fool not to accept that, but the Lima 47 can still look OK. The main appeal of this project was the low outlay it required. I had the wheels in stock which really helped. But my overall spend on it so far has been less than £30 and that includes the loco itself and a lovely set of roof grilles from Mr Hanson's emporium. If I can keep it below £40 overall (minus decoder) I will be very happy indeed. This is how it currently looks - Much work has been carried out around the cabs and the bufferbeams; the underframe has been seriosuly hacked to loose the moulded gap to accomodate the original ballast weight. This has been replaced by a whole lot of lead! Just make sure it's firmly stuck in place - then it strengthens the underframe moulding rather than causing it to warp. When I get time I want to go over the variuous changes, but for now, the model is most of the way there. It may be a ver 'old school' project but I don't care - it has a sound base from which to work so it should be successful. It's very easy to knock Lima but some of their tool making is delightful and it's great to make ful use of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I'll, (obviously), second your last comment James and look forward to seeing how this one progresses. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Funnily enough im doing a similar project for a friend but using a Hornby 47 as the basis, I think the older Hornby and Lima can be made into more refined models, but they do require a lot of work! needless to say the Hornby one im doing probably will barely resemble the orgininal model when ive gotten t othe more advanced stages of detailing NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 look forward to seeing how this one progresses. Probably slowly! Though there's not a huge amount to do,less than my class 31. Funnily enough im doing a similar project for a friend but using a Hornby 47 as the basis, I think the older Hornby and Lima can be made into more refined models, but they do require a lot of work! needless to say the Hornby one im doing probably will barely resemble the orgininal model when ive gotten t othe more advanced stages of detailing. The Hornby model is very good shape wise - a bit more basic in terms of its tooling but overall quite sound. There's an excellent bit on EM Gauge Layouts this month - look at the Workbench for January. Peter Johnson seems to be able to work miracles with models! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Ah yes Peter Johnsons articles ive always read regularly, hes certainly a skileld modeller, I think with mine, the model will actually be THE true definition of "Limby" !! with other bits thrown as well, the models Identity is 47711 "Greyfairs Bobby" in Scotrail livery, looking forward to seeing more progress James, inspiration stuff again NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew F Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Ah-ha, the much awaited 47 build. I see you've succumbed to that boil in the bag Yorky-toy-fair-tinker that's had many a penny of mine; often unjustly .....and you're fitting nickel silver Ultras to the beast!! It's interesting that you're retaining the Lima motor; I've always thought that the lower geared Lima stuff, with proper pick-up is capable of excellent performance. I've no Limby motor experience so can't comment on why the old 40 or 47 should bla bla bla. I will be following this build; mainly because I know it will be the definitive Brush after seeing your 31 conversion; also I wan't to tread this path too once you've Brushed it clear of oppositon Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Ah-ha, the much awaited 47 build. I see you've succumbed to that boil in the bag Yorky-toy-fair-tinker that's had many a penny of mine; often unjustly ..... I don't often bother with Toy Fairs anymore - there's so much rubbish that it's often not worth while, but this was from the first one in beverley since the Army Transport Museum closed so being about four miles away we thought we'd try it! and you're fitting nickel silver Ultras to the beast!! They're actually secondhand steel tyred ones; I think they came from Jim Smith-Wright when he was remotoring various electrics a few years ago! It's interesting that you're retaining the Lima motor; I've always thought that the lower geared Lima stuff, with proper pick-up is capable of excellent performance. I've no Limby motor experience so can't comment on why the old 40 or 47 should bla bla bla. There's no reason why a cared for Lima loco shouldn't be at least an acceptable runner - I think many of those who have dismissed them just don't know how to maintain them. Later on in the project I intend to completely over haul the pick ups and probably replace them on the trailing bogie altogether in order to get have full wheel pick up at that end. The motor bogie already has extra pick ups as per the Widenshaw method. Now in P4 form, it could do with a good run, especially so once all the new pick ups are in place. I will be following this build; mainly because I know it will be the definitive Brush after seeing your 31 conversion; also I wan't to tread this path too once you've Brushed it clear of oppositon I don't know about definitive, but we'll see how it goes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew F Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The toy fair at York Racecourse is sometimes pretty good James, but I have bought a load of rubbish all too often ; battling it out in the rummage boxes all morning looking for a useful etch or obsolete casting that proves useless. I remember the Army Museum fairs from being a kid and it's sad it's closed down. It suggests a 6 month wait on the Ultrascale website for their products(but I don't think this is true) and they're not so cheap after postage. Steel tyred wheels? Interesting! If you got them of Jim SW then they're bound to be good. It's possible to get an e-bay bargain too with these wheels, on an un-finished project (about the only thing that doesn't fetch the earth!) I got a brass set for my Lima 27 on such a project and just swapped bogies; finished the project and sold it on. So for Lima builds, it's worth a look on there for 40's/20's/47 projects etc. Thanks for the pick-up link; something I'll pursue when I'm more experienced at soldering!!! I actually hindered my Lima 47 with additional binding pick-ups.....those wobbly Lima centre wheels don't want to know The 27 has bronze phosphor wire on the gear wheels that slot into the bogie and slide underneath between the bogie frame mould. Your change to DCC will be worth following for many of us old diesel fiddlers. I for one have never chipped anything other than slotting it in the socket. Thanks Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto21 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hi James, I'm really looking forward to seeing progress with this, I really enjoyed your Class 31 thread. I've always been a bit of a fan of Lima models despite all the shortcomings. My own Lima 47, which I detailed when I was in school [i think it was the first model I detailed] always gets nice comments despite it's noisy performance and primitive detailing [some Craftsman pipes and bits of staples] so I'm looking forward to seeing how yours turns out. I have another Lima 47 in Intercity colours stored somewhere, I was going to sell it but this thread has inspired me to have another look at it! Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted January 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2011 Will be reading with interest. I have half a dozen Lima Duffs, and recently detailed one up (shawplan etched double arrows, nameplates, bufferbeam detailing etc). I was my first real bash at diesel detailing. Five of my six are decent runners and I have recently aquired a fairly cheap vitrains 47 chassis (body was victim of a fall!) so might have a go with putting it under the errant running 47 and take pointers from here regarding further detailing. Have also detailed up a Lima 31 and am on the lookout for cheap Hornby internals should they come up, if not a bit of fine-tuning should help it along the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Well I have to admit I've not got much further with this one - so no new photos as yet. However I'll be taking a few to show some of the key changes I've made. For me two which have a surprising impact are new bufferbeams and a modified horngrille. Small changes but ones which I think really help to 'duffness' reach a slightly higher level. The main thing I have managed to do is fit new roof grilles courtesy of the very nice Mr Hanson and very nice they are indeed! I remember when Graham Shaw brought out his first Class 47 fan grilles and how we all thought they were amazing - they seem rather crude by comparison now. So depsite the little progress made it's not far off the patch painting stage. It'll have its roof resprayed as well as new warning panels and the black window surrounds reinstated before renumbering and new transfers and plates all round. So getting there slowly. Then just chipping! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto21 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Really looking forward to seeing some pics James, even if they make me see how poor my own Lima 47 looks by comparison! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted February 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2011 I love threads like these... I needs some inspiration for the Lima Duff that I have upstairs awaiting works overhaul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D802 FORMIDABLE Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 You are a true modeller James and I shall enjoy watching this one come along. Cheers Anthony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 Anthony, it seems you are easily fooled! But thanks anyway! And Matt, stop putting your modelling down! I love threads like these... I needs some inspiration for the Lima Duff that I have upstairs awaiting works overhaul I'm still amazed some people do seem to like these threads where the subject matter/starting point is a much older model. Since I started the project, the reason for wanting a cheap 'value for money' project has gone but I actually think it has much merit anyway. No doubt as the cost of living goes up some modellers may well wish to revisit older models and bring them up to their exisiting standards. Anyway, I'm hoping to make a bit of progress this week as I'm off every afternoon for the next seven days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Anthony, it seems you are easily fooled! But thanks anyway! And Matt, stop putting your modelling down! I'm still amazed some people do seem to like these threads where the subject matter/starting point is a much older model. Since I started the project, the reason for wanting a cheap 'value for money' project has gone but I actually think it has much merit anyway. No doubt as the cost of living goes up some modellers may well wish to revisit older models and bring them up to their exisiting standards. Anyway, I'm hoping to make a bit of progress this week as I'm off every afternoon for the next seven days! I agree 100% with you there James. Unfortunately, some sellers seem to agree too. I found one of the old really light Blue Lima Deltics on a stand at Doncaster. I can't remember the price, but commented on it to my pal. We both thought the seller would be lucky to get a sale. If you shop around though, there are many more models with a sensible price. Anywho, crack on with the 47, I have some waiting in the wings and may need to steal some more of your ideas! Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 Feel free to steal/borrow any of my ideas - I doubt I come up with any original! I just borrow other people's techniques and adapt them! I agree 100% with you there James. Unfortunately, some sellers seem to agree too. I found one of the old really light Blue Lima Deltics on a stand at Doncaster. I can't remember the price, but commented on it to my pal. We both thought the seller would be lucky to get a sale. If you shop around though, there are many more models with a sensible price. A project like this is only worthwhile if you do get a good price on the loco or you already have it - I've seen Lima class 47s at exhibtions (and other stalls at the Beverley toy fair!) asking for forty quid or more!!! And they're not excelent condition some of them, certainly no where near the condition of the model in this thread was in most cases. if these are the prices involved you're far better off searching for a keenly priced Heljan/Bachmann/Vi Trains (delete as per personal preference!) and using that. The other thing I hope for, and I guess I'll never know, is that someone sees a thread like this or your 'occasional' thread, sees some of the work invollved and that the cost isn't prohibitive and decides to have a go themselves. And hopefully deiceds to more and more of their own things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Feel free to steal/borrow any of my ideas - I doubt I come up with any original! I just borrow other people's techniques and adapt them! A project like this is only worthwhile if you do get a good price on the loco or you already have it - I've seen Lima class 47s at exhibtions (and other stalls at the Beverley toy fair!) asking for forty quid or more!!! And they're not excelent condition some of them, certainly no where near the condition of the model in this thread was in most cases. if these are the prices involved you're far better off searching for a keenly priced Heljan/Bachmann/Vi Trains (delete as per personal preference!) and using that. The other thing I hope for, and I guess I'll never know, is that someone sees a thread like this or your 'occasional' thread, sees some of the work invollved and that the cost isn't prohibitive and decides to have a go themselves. And hopefully deiceds to more and more of their own things. Again, I agree. I don't consider much of what I/we do to be innovative, but I like to post, just so those who might not have had the confidence, actually pick up the knife and get carving!..... At the end of each project, I always sit back and have a smile. It's that feeling that inspires me and hopefully, will inspire others too. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 Here's just a little update - a view of today's work around the underframe. It's not a perfect reproduction but it looks quite reasonable once painted - I'm using Gareth Bayer's guide from an old copy of DEMU's Update as a source, along with photos I have. I think this is one way to really transform a Lima class 47! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted February 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'm still amazed some people do seem to like these threads where the subject matter/starting point is a much older model. Since I started the project, the reason for wanting a cheap 'value for money' project has gone but I actually think it has much merit anyway. No doubt as the cost of living goes up some modellers may well wish to revisit older models and bring them up to their exisiting standards. Anyway, I'm hoping to make a bit of progress this week as I'm off every afternoon for the next seven days! It's railway modelling James ... and I like railway modelling, now I know that sounds like an odd thing to say on a forum called RMweb but never the less it's a refreshing change from wish lists and what ifs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thanks gg! I still find projects like this satisfying! But the underframe work, for example, could easily be applied to Bachmann models with out too much difficulty - it seems a shame people will just accept things out of the box when simple work would make a huge difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 The underframe is nearly sorted now - just a few pipe runs to add. Photos, or rather clear photos, of this area are hard to find. But maybe this means no one will notice if I've made any mistakes?! I think this really does make a huge impact on the model, especially if you compare it with the moulded box which Lima provided for us. Even with Bachmann and Vi Trains examples, work in this area should make a big difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 James, Here's a couple that may prove useful. I have others if you would like them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Thanks Matt! They're exactly what I need! I know what I'm doing in the morning now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted February 21, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2011 The best compliment I can give is this... "I looks 7mm to the foot". Well done - that under-frame looks amazingly fragile B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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