Class 47 - Painted!

[James]

Just found this thread James. A really useful read given my current project which I will be getting back on to again soon. I'll continue to follow your developments with interest.

 

Thanks Jon!

 

I've just had a look at your Class 47 project on Flickr which was very interesting! I have a Bachmann 47 of my own which I haven't touched! It's a 47/4 (their model of 47474) which I'd like to use but at the moment it does nothing for me. The front view looks wrong due to the shape and size of the cowling.

 

The model seems to be coming along nicely and is giving me some pointers for when I get my 47's on the bench.....

 

You've got to finish DP2 first!

 

What are you planning to use as the base for your 47s?

[the penguin of doom]

You've got to finish DP2 first!

 

What are you planning to use as the base for your 47s?

 

Hello James.

 

There might be a development on my DP2 sooner than you think but I'll not hijack your thread for that.....

 

I have the Bachmann 47's with varying body styles. 5 in all to do, so won't be in as fine detail as yours or Jons.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[James]

I have the Bachmann 47's with varying body styles. 5 in all to do, so won't be in as fine detail as yours or Jons.

 

Don't put yourself down!

 

A lot of what I've done with the Lima body in this thread can easily be applied to all the other options for 47s. I even have a couple of spare Hornby bodies and am considering using one at some point! My aim is have consistency across my models, so the ability to repeat the exercise is very important. Also I ideally want to be able to have the Lima based models stand happily alongside other class 47s from other bases. These could be Bachmann or Vi Trains.

 

The only model which won't site easily, I suspect, with the other models will be the Heljan model which is a shame as i rather like it!

 

One from a few years ago -

 

 

Eagle eyed viewers may be able to spot the source of the bogies for the latest model!

[the penguin of doom]

 

 

Don't put yourself down!

 

A lot of what I've done with the Lima body in this thread can easily be applied to all the other options for 47s. I even have a couple of spare Hornby bodies and am considering using one at some point! My aim is have consistency across my models, so the ability to repeat the exercise is very important. Also I ideally want to be able to have the Lima based models stand happily alongside other class 47s from other bases. These could be Bachmann or Vi Trains.

 

The only model which won't site easily, I suspect, with the other models will be the Heljan model which is a shame as i rather like it!

 

One from a few years ago -

 

 

Eagle eyed viewers may be able to spot the source of the bogies for the latest model!

 

Assuming that's a repaint James, a very nice job.

 

Rather predictably, I agree 100% in having a uniform fleet, hence the re-do of DP2.....

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Jon020]

Don't put yourself down!

 

A lot of what I've done with the Lima body in this thread can easily be applied to all the other options for 47s. I even have a couple of spare Hornby bodies and am considering using one at some point! My aim is have consistency across my models, so the ability to repeat the exercise is very important. Also I ideally want to be able to have the Lima based models stand happily alongside other class 47s from other bases. These could be Bachmann or Vi Trains.

 

The only model which won't site easily, I suspect, with the other models will be the Heljan model which is a shame as i rather like it!

 

One from a few years ago -

 

 

Eagle eyed viewers may be able to spot the source of the bogies for the latest model!

Streuth... look at the radiator shutters on that!

[Jon020]

actually James... I've scanned back and forth and obviously missed the mention... but did you use Heljan Bogie frames on this? I've got the early Bachmann 47 and with the U/scales in, it's bl##dy tight... too tight for the brake items which all had to come out for our recent shwo - still not happy withh its running. So, something has to be done. Is there a simple way to fit the Heljans - I note that they're sideframes only so migth need some form of attachment?

Thanks for noting the 47 photos I've flickr'd... it's all been blogged too. If this helps identify my intent? Perhaps the words will explain some of the photos? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/587/entry-8824-class-47-detailing-project-conversion-of-Bachmann-47-a-p4-brush-4-part-2/

I accept your preference for threads... and have wondered whether the thread better suits this type of entry than a blog. Jury still out in my book - but I'll stick with blogs for now.

 

Anyway.. advice on bogie preferences would be welcomed.

 

Thanks... Jon

[James]

Streuth... look at the radiator shutters on that!

 

Thank you! Not too hard either - just brass strip!

 

actually James... I've scanned back and forth and obviously missed the mention... but did you use Heljan Bogie frames on this? I've got the early Bachmann 47 and with the U/scales in, it's bl##dy tight... too tight for the brake items which all had to come out for our recent shwo - still not happy withh its running. So, something has to be done. Is there a simple way to fit the Heljans - I note that they're sideframes only so migth need some form of attachment?

 

I'll be honest, I'm not going to a**e about with the Bachmann bogies! I'll wait for the new sprung bogies to arrive! They'll have etched brake gear and I'll use modified Heljan side frames!

 

The loco which appears in most of the thread has Lima bogies though - well, at one end it has an Ultrascale replacement power bogie and at the other a compensated trailing bogie from Formil Engineering. Only because I had them both 'in stock' - the bogies frames themselves had new springs made and brakes removed. The brake blocks were removed as I feel it's better to have none than have them in the wrong place - the viewer just assumes they lie in the gloom of the frames!

 

 

Thanks for noting the 47 photos I've flickr'd... it's all been blogged too. If this helps identify my intent? Perhaps the words will explain some of the photos? http://www.rmweb.co....brush-4-part-2/

I accept your preference for threads... and have wondered whether the thread better suits this type of entry than a blog. Jury still out in my book - but I'll stick with blogs for now.

 

I prefer threads for this kind of build - but there's plenty on my blog about the loco! I also find with limited time following a thread is much easier.

[16A]

 

- well, at one end it has an Ultrascale replacement power bogie and at the other a compensated trailing bogie from Formil Engineering.

 

 

I know I haven't been in the forums much lately but have I missed something....compensated bogies??!!! I know Ultrascale did do a power bogie at some point.

 

Adriano

[James]

I know I haven't been in the forums much lately but have I missed something....compensated bogies??!!! I know Ultrascale did do a power bogie at some point.

 

You've not missed anything - they were made, as mentioned above, by Formil Engineering to compliment their Dyna Drive remotoring kits. There's only ever been one mention of the trailing bogies in the Press and that was in an article by Tim Shackleton in MRJ a few years ago.

 

As far as I know, you can longer get them.

[James]

Thanks to ebay and the Post Office, the next part of the jigsaw has arrived!

 

 

All I've done is remove the glazing as this can make the Vi body look appalling and toy like - without it you can really see the shape much better. I know they're not Lima but you can tell that some people have been involved with both companies - the tooling dispays the same finesse which Lima had.

 

I bet some of you look at this and wonder why I'm going for a Vi, Lima and Heljan combination, but we'll see how it turns out!

 

But now, I'm off to play with a big trainset!

[the penguin of doom]

I'd agree James.

 

It's a very crisp moulding by the looks of it although the colour looks a tad bright unless that's as a result of this lovely sunshine we're finally having here in East Yorkshire!

 

I'd be willing to bet there won't be one of these flying past you this evening like they used to on the Carslile - Hull many moons ago.....

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[James]

The colours are actually quite good - the red looks, to me anyway, very much like the ex-works EWS red but the warning panel colour isn't quite right from what I can see. The sun does make them appear very bright though! Lovely sunny day until a few moments ago!

 

The paint is much thinner than Bachmann's which does help show off the tooling. Aside from loco specific details it really doesn't require too much attention. The buffer beams supplied are poor, but Slater's provide DIY replacements... But I also suspect I'll be adding the Hanson Holiday Fund in some shape or form!

 

There will be a third Class 47 after these two but the exact method is yet to be decided - see how this one progresses and bearing in mind the stock of Lima locos I have! Reading through Jon's work with the earlier Bachmann 47 is interesting and I'm going to have a good look at the 47/4 from Bachmann I have to see just what that needs. As long as they can all sit side by side without it being obvious as to what the base model is, then I'll be happy!

 

In total I've just had five different 47s past here since November, all West Coast machines on specials! Lovely when they do come though!

[MJI]

I have a detailed Hornby 47 not bad but not as good as these, I did it nearly 30 years ago as well.

[P.C.M]

Hi James,

Another nice project, I will have to tell a mate of mine to look at this as he is currently stripping a Heljan class 47 chassis to use under a Lima 47 body.

I am going to stick with my Bachmann locos, I filed off about 1.5mm from the bottom of the cowl which improves things.

Though I did buy a Vi loco to compare it and I like the body and I think their bogies are better than the Bachmann ones, trouble I have is the chassis doesn't run as well on my clunky code 100 track where as the Bachmann ones seem smoother over the points, I wonder if anyone has put a Vi body on a Bachmann chassis?

 

Cheers Peter.

[P.C.M]

Hi James,

Another nice project, I will have to tell a mate of mine to look at this as he is currently stripping a Heljan class 47 chassis to use under a Lima 47 body.

I am going to stick with my Bachmann locos, I filed off about 1.5mm from the bottom of the cowl which improves things.

Though I did buy a Vi loco to compare it and I like the body and I think their bogies are better than the Bachmann ones, trouble I have is the chassis doesn't run as well on my clunky code 100 track where as the Bachmann ones seem smoother over the points, I wonder if anyone has put a Vi body on a Bachmann chassis?

 

Cheers Peter.

[Horsetan]

You've not missed anything - they were made, as mentioned above, by Formil Engineering to compliment their Dyna Drive remotoring kits. There's only ever been one mention of the trailing bogies in the Press and that was in an article by Tim Shackleton in MRJ a few years ago.

 

As far as I know, you can no longer get them.

 

Both types of bogie were bloody expensive when they came out - I'm not sure how many Formil ones John Lythgoe managed to shift in the end - I still have his 1999/2000 catalogue on the shelf. The Ultrascale one had contrate-and-pinion gears.

 

Dyna-Drive components are still available from Brimalm Engineering in Sweden - just convert the prices from Swedish Kronor to sterling. The centrifugal clutch is still an ingenious little thing even now in the era of DCC.

[James]

The centrifugal clutch is still an ingenious little thing even now in the era of DCC.

 

It is!

 

I think anyone who's experienced Dyna Drive will realise DCC isn't all that in terms of feel of control - on DCC locos are programmed to have momtentum whereas with Dyna Drive, that's how they really behave, nothing false.

 

Someone once pompously told me 'with DCC, you don't need Dyna Drive' - I asked if they'd ever used Dyna Drive, they said they hadn't, hmmm....

[James]

Another nice project, I will have to tell a mate of mine to look at this as he is currently stripping a Heljan class 47 chassis to use under a Lima 47 body.

 

Thanks! It must seem like a funny combination to some people though!

 

I'd be interested to see your friend's progress

 

I am going to stick with my Bachmann locos, I filed off about 1.5mm from the bottom of the cowl which improves things.

 

Your 47 looks nice The cowling has made a bug difference! Have you also done a little work around the water tanks and battery boxes?

 

It's worth looking here for more about tackling the Bachmann loco too -

 

http://www.rmweb.co....workbench-blog/

 

Though I did buy a Vi loco to compare it and I like the body and I think their bogies are better than the Bachmann ones, trouble I have is the chassis doesn't run as well on my clunky code 100 track where as the Bachmann ones seem smoother over the points, I wonder if anyone has put a Vi body on a Bachmann chassis?

 

On the subject of the Bachmann bogies, I've conincidently been exchanging e-mails on the subject and having looked, I think changing the springs for new ones from wire (as per this thread) would make an enormous difference in appearance. Tha Bachmann loco certainly sits better than the Vi forty-seven. Somehow the Vi one looks a little 'tip-toey-ish' in its stance, if you know what I mean.

 

I've not tried a Vi body on the Bachmann chassis, but no real why it wouldn't work well!

[Horsetan]

I have an unused Dyna Drive clutch in the drawer. Wonder if I should put it in the ProtoDeltic.......?

[James]

I have an unused Dyna Drive clutch in the drawer. Wonder if I should put it in the ProtoDeltic.......?

 

Yes! Yes you should!

 

Or maybe two motors, two clutches?!

 

I did actually once quote for a rebuilt/'stretched' Lima Deltic with Lima 37 bogies with 'twin' Dyna Drive. Even just the bits before any work was undertaken was quite impressive!

[Horsetan]

Yes! Yes you should!

 

One big double-ended Maxon, big flywheels, should do it. Plus bevel / contrate-and-pinion gears.

[P.C.M]

Hi James,

I like the way you have split my post and answered each bit. I am not sure how to do that but I am sure you will get what I am going on about.

 

It might seem a strange combo but my friend had a Heljan 47 with a dodgy chassis, he bought a spare body but it's never going to fit over the chassiss its swollen so much. He already had a part detailed Lima 47 that will eventually be a blue with grey roof 47/7. So far he has fitted the moter in the centre of the Lima chassis and is working on building pivot points for the bogies. Next time I am down at his place I will get some pics.

 

Yes I have done some work on the water tank area, it's not spot on but better than leaving it as a class 57 underframe. I pretty much copied what Pennine MC did with his. He did a thread on the old RMweb. I have been following Jons progress, and if his Deltic is anything to go by then I think it will leave my 47s for dead.

 

I am with you on the tip-toey-ish stance I thought it just sat to high but comparing it with my Bachmann's it sits at the right hight and lowering the loco would make it too low I think. Having had another look I think the Bachman bogies capture the chunkyness better that the Vi one there really it's that much in it though. I did notice the Vi ones have a Squre at the top of the inner springs wth the Bachmann ones don't.

 

Cheers Peter.

[James]

I like the way you have split my post and answered each bit. I am not sure how to do that but I am sure you will get what I am going on about.

 

I'm just very clever!

 

Just make sure you have the quote tags round each bit

 

It might seem a strange combo but my friend had a Heljan 47 with a dodgy chassis, he bought a spare body but it's never going to fit over the chassiss its swollen so much. He already had a part detailed Lima 47 that will eventually be a blue with grey roof 47/7. So far he has fitted the moter in the centre of the Lima chassis and is working on building pivot points for the bogies. Next time I am down at his place I will get some pics.

 

It sounds like he had exactly the same issue that I had -

 

http://eastmoor.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/rip-imeche.html

 

It was sould destroying when I'd spent so much time on the model - I have another Chassis which has similarly suffered but fortunately I hadn't touched the loco. But may now use that for a similar conversion to that out lined here.

 

I'll be using Plastikard for the bogie pivots; with a decent surface area there's no reason why it shouldn't be perfectly servicable.

 

Yes I have done some work on the water tank area, it's not spot on but better than leaving it as a class 57 underframe. I pretty much copied what Pennine MC did with his. He did a thread on the old RMweb. I have been following Jons progress, and if his Deltic is anything to go by then I think it will leave my 47s for dead.

 

I remember Ian's thread - saved the photos too I think! It shows the Bachmann model isn't all bad but, like a number of Bachmann diesels, includes a couple of silly errors sadly.

 

And yes, Jon's 47s should be quite something!

 

I am with you on the tip-toey-ish stance I thought it just sat to high but comparing it with my Bachmann's it sits at the right hight and lowering the loco would make it too low I think. Having had another look I think the Bachman bogies capture the chunkyness better that the Vi one there really it's that much in it though. I did notice the Vi ones have a Squre at the top of the inner springs wth the Bachmann ones don't.

 

Not sure what the square is but I added it to the detailed Lima frames and will add it to the Heljan bogies too in due course. I think Lima has the best degree of 'chunkiness' but it's a shame they're a scale 6" too short in order to fit the existing motor bogie.

[MJI]

Swelling chassis - I better check mine - any comeback with it?

[James]

Swelling chassis - I better check mine - any comeback with it?

 

I never bothered - the loco was second hand four years ago when I started detailing it. The body appears to have straightened itself over the last few months so that's safely to one side. However, it's the start of a new project - last thing I want to be is a moaner, there's a thread about class 31 chassis for that!