Building a G.W.R. Castle + more in 7mm OF from a JLTRT kit restarts on P.88 by OzzyO,

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

I look forwards to meeting you at Telford Ken, we have at least one mutual mate who should be able to point us out to each other, Conrad.

 

I got the tender sides rubbed back today, this was after one coat of etch primer and.about six coats of filler primer. You can still see some small witness marks from the black felt tip pen that I used for the chevrons and lines. The shorter the line, that shows that there's not a lot of filler primer needed. I then gave it a quick wash and hung it on the radiator to dry for a couple of hours before I applied another two coats of filler primer. So it is now on the radiator to help dry the primer.

This was the side that I had to apply the knifing putty to. I have also found out that cheap masking tape does not like getting wet, but the low tack is OK.

 

Back to the engine body, this has had another grit blasting (this should be the last one), some of the photos were taken without flash and some with.

 

Into the cab, it looks like there's been a sand storm in there.

 

The next job on the body will be to U/S clean it (I will post a couple of photos after U/S cleaning). Then the next time you see the body it should be grey.

 

OzzyO.

[JeffP]

Fascinating thread, and some lovely work from Ozzy and Cliff.

[N15class]

I think the fireman should get a new shovel. He has made a right mess in the cab!!!!

[ozzyo]

I think the fireman should get a new shovel. He has made a right mess in the cab!!!!

 

 

Should have gone to Specsavers, more like.

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

did anyone notice the price on the PayPal invoice in mess #762?

 

OzzyO.

[jazz]

Oh, you will be easy to spot, I'll take a copy of your avatar above.

[Kev_Lewis]

Hello all,

 

did anyone notice the price on the PayPal invoice in mess #762?

 

OzzyO.

 

I did notice that it was £32. But on closer inspection it looks like you paid 32 quid for five bolts. I'm guessing it was actually five packs of bolts.

 

I see you've blanked out your full name and address now too.

[buffalo]

did anyone notice the price on the PayPal invoice in mess #762?

Yes, and was surprised to see that, IIRC, the dollar price hasn't changed since I bought some about three years ago (assuming they are packs of 25).

 

Nick

[ozzyo]

Oh, you will be easy to spot, I'll take a copy of your avatar above.

 

I'm not getting dressed up like that I was reddy for a night out on the town (on the pull). So I'll probable look more like this.

Smart but casual

 

I did notice that it was £32. But on closer inspection it looks like you paid 32 quid for five bolts. I'm guessing it was actually five packs of bolts.

I see you've blanked out your full name and address now too.

 

One of the probs. of posting late at night. I got the wrong copy out of my files (and that was without a drink).

 

Yes, and was surprised to see that, IIRC, the dollar price hasn't changed since I bought some about three years ago (assuming they are packs of 25).

Nick

 

Yes they're packs of 25, plus $6.00 P&P from the U.S.A.Is not that bad to me. when you think of it, but some traders over here are charging the same in pounds (£) as dollars ($) for the same things. I don't mind anyone making a profit, but?

 

Here's a better photo of me Ken.

 

OzzyO.

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

back onto the tender, two more coats of filler primer has been applied and the masking tape removed from the top. These photos were taken with flash.

 

Some of the rubbing down sticks that I will use, the cut out at one end is so that they will go under the front handrails.

 

After the first coats of filler primer had been rubbed back.

 

After the second coats had been rubbed back, there are still some small hollows but not as bad as when I started on it.

 

The same as above but on the second side.

 

The next job will be to get the etch primer on, and some light rubbing back, with some 400 & 1000 grit wet'n'dry used wet.

 

OzzyO.

 

Edit; to add some photos to hopefully make the sequence better to under stand.

[Pete Harvey]

Do you know if the acid in the etching primer will effect the putty primer?

 

It looks like your hard work is paying off.

 

Pete

[ozzyo]

Do you know if the acid in the etching primer will effect the putty primer?

 

It looks like your hard work is paying off.

 

Pete

 

Hello Pete,

 

when I did the test on Fairy liquid on how the primer would stick, I sprayed etch primer over some filler primer,as you can see below.

 

 

There was more filler primer under the Halfords primer, but when both of them were dry I did not see any thing different with the etch primer.

 

This was how the test turned out.

 

OzzyO.

[Pete Harvey]

Very interesting thanks for posting the test, Who's etching primer did you use?

 

Pete

[ozzyo]

Very interesting thanks for posting the test, Who's etching primer did you use?

 

Pete

 

Hello Pete,

 

I use Teroson etch primer it's not the cheapest but I think that it's about the best.

 

you can see the full test in the help & tips section under filler primer. It's about two pages long, if you do have a read of it please let me know what you think about my conclusions.

 

OzzyO.

[gateman49]

OzzyO,

 

Hello again, just back from a week off in the Riviera to see that a lot of progress has been made on a number of fronts. If I can add my ha'porth, my understanding is as has been explained already, that the cylinder above the vacuum brake effectively applies the engine brake when the train brake is applied (so they both slow down in unison!).

 

The queries about the hooks for the tarpaulin cover have, once again, brought Murphy's law into play as, lo and behold, the latest edition of Great Western Journal, number 82, (which was waiting for my in my post) has some magnificent photos of the Bulldogs in the second of two in depth articles. A number of shots clearly show the arrangement (see pages 105 and 106 - which also show the two different cab sheet styles) as it was on locos in the '30s.

 

The photo which you showed was of 3335 (un-named) taken by R M Casserley and it appears in "Locomotives of British Railways" written by him and L L Asher. It's a very useful book to have by the way. The photo was taken at Newton Abbot and it was apparently the last curved frame Bulldog in service.

 

Finally, I am attaching the rest of my extracts from the long out of print book "Locomotive Management" and I trust that I am not infringing copyright.

[gateman49]

OzzyO

 

Two footnotes:

 

The diagram of the sight feed lubricator is of a three glass version. Kings, Castles and other large engine(?) had four glasses rather than three as far as I know - can any engine man clarify this?

 

Secondly, if you had thought about having an opening smoke box door you can now properly model the superheater header and steam pipes etc! This isn't as tongue in cheek as it might be as I seem to recall long ago building a 4mm Hawksworth 16xx kit (I think by Cotswold) which had this feature - perhaps our 4mm friends can remind me. At the very least these diagrams do show what that cover on the side of the smokebox/boiler join is all about.

[ozzyo]

OzzyO

Two footnotes:

The diagram of the sight feed lubricator is of a three glass version. Kings, Castles and other large engine(?) had four glasses rather than three as far as I know - can any engine man clarify this?

Secondly, if you had thought about having an opening smoke box door you can now properly model the superheater header and steam pipes etc! This isn't as tongue in cheek as it might be as I seem to recall long ago building a 4mm Hawksworth 16xx kit (I think by Cotswold) which had this feature - perhaps our 4mm friends can remind me. At the very least these diagrams do show what that cover on the side of the smokebox/boiler join is all about.

 

Hello Andrew,

 

1] the sight feed lubricator, as far as I can tell from the copies of the pages is all the two cylinder locos that were fitted with them ( the very early ones had one or two glasses), had the three glass style. Reading the words it looks like the middle one was a spare that could be used by moving the handle on the top to the left or right. Bottom L/H drawing, the handle at the bottom middle.

 

2] The four feed lubricator was used on all the four cylinder locos, Stars, Castles & Kings, so all the glasses were in use with no spare.

 

Opening smokebox doors, now I'm not sure about G.W.R. locos but most L.M.S. locos had self cleaning smoke box's this involved a set of fine mesh baffle plates so you didn't see the blast pipe let alone the tube plate. All in all a lot of work for very little gain, as you don't tend to see many locos running around with the smoke box door open.

 

I take my hat off to those that do it but it's not for me.

 

If you've not had a look at it. Have a look at 86F, ash coal & cotton waste, it's in layout topics, one of the last posts has a video on it with some of my locos on it.

 

OzzyO.

[gateman49]

OzzyO

 

I don't blame you for not opening your smoke box doors - life's too short and I was a bit tongue in cheek!

 

Thanks for actually reading the description of the sight feed lubricator and sorting that one out.

 

I have now had the chance to have a good look at the photo's in the above mentioned No. 82 of GWJ and, on the subject of those tarpaulin hooks, there is a possible way for you to super detail the cab without having to bother with any hooks at all. A number of photos show that the loco men didn't bother to roll up the sheet and tie it to the hooks one by one. What they did was to fold it forward and stretch it flat over the cab roof. To stop it flapping about like a sail, they then attached the long tension sprung corner hooks to the cab side hand rails as far forward as they could. Presumably they did this in April when showers were about and could quickly draw it back if needed in the wetter counties of the SW such as Devon.

 

On final addendum re the water pep pipe. Many photos show it stowed by the fireman to dangle out of the cab either over the cut out and dropped behind a horizontal hand rail or between the back of the side sheet and the vertical stanchion rail (again see a number of photos in GWJ 82). I've always found it difficult to replicate this with either wire or plastic sheathing from electrical wire as it doesn't have the weight/mass to "dangle" prototypically. Do you ever model this and, if so, how?

[JeffP]

Have you thought of using solder wire?

[ozzyo]

Hello Jeff, all,

 

this may be a long one so get a brew.

 

Pep pipes, I think that solder wire would be too soft, and how would you solder it in place?

Some photos of locos with the pep pipe in place, for the core I use tinned copper wire of 24 SWG (0.56mm) over wrapped with 36 SWG (0.19mm), but I'm starting to think that it may make them look a bit on the heavy side.

 

The last two were removed before delivery.

 

Back onto the 33xx build, as this was a Finney kit I was a bit surprised with the chimney as supplied.

 

So I ground out the blow holes with a small round diamond dental bur.

 

Then filled them with solder.

 

Then filed it all back.

 

Then a quick grit blast, I now think that should do.

 

Back onto the tender.

 

After I got the etch primer on, while it was still in the spray booth I noticed a mark running down the side of the tank side. I said oh bother. I know what had caused it, it was when I was rubbing down the small step on the bottom of the tank side (note to one's self add some masking tape on the edge that your not using).

 

 

So it was out of the booth and some more rubbing down, this did not get rid of it.

 

So out with the knifing putty and fill it in, using as little as possible.

 

Then rubbed down again and sprayed with etch prime and checked in the spray booth.

 

So here it is at last, all I have to do now is fit the buffers X4 and couplings.

 

Then I thought that the handrails looked a bit heavy so I scraped the primer off them.

 

Some of yous will have seen my post about using rubber tube instead of a spring on the coupling shank, this is the reason why.

 

OzzyO.

[gateman49]

Hi OzzyO

 

Thanks for the info and photos of pep pipes.

 

Going back to the sight feed lubricators, my original copy of p317 show a narrative on each of the three namely "regulator", "spare", "cylinders" and it appears that in their early years four cylinder locos had a three sight lubricator of a slightly different (more box-like) design. See the images of a Star and King. Did they get four sight lubricators when superheating was improved?

[ozzyo]

Hello Gateman all,

 

first off thanks for the photos.

 

I'll try and point out the changes in them as the locos evolved.

In this photo the portholes are still open so its pre grouping? The Manson valve is out of sight, it looks like the gauge glass has a round protector fitted, the same type is fitted in the King cab (later on) so it was still in use in 1927, pressure and vacuum gauges still fitted to the cab front, the vacuum valve looks to be the early type, looking at the roiled up tarp. sheet I would guess at a 3000 or 3500 gal. tender, that is pure conjecture. The neat layout of the pipe work.

 

Some later views of Star cabs, Manson valve in view, pressure gauge and steam heat gauge on a backing plate on the backhead, the later gauge glass cover, later vacuum valve, this maybe due to the gauge being a duplex type showing train and vacuum tank, four feed lubricator, speedo and A.T.C. fitted. Latter type of lift up damper levers, note the position of the pep pipe cock. The pipe work does not look as neat. One thing that is not present in the later photos are the brackets for the driver seat on the box for the reverser. Looking at the position of the brackets it could not be used.

 

Just about the same as above. A.T.C. pick under the cab.

 

Just about the same as above, but it looks like it's got a 4000 gal. tender fitted.

 

On to a Castle, cab just about the same but this loco has a mec. lub. box on the footplate, you can tell this by the gauge under the drivers right elbow. The vacuum gauge is now on the backhead (I think that it always was). Looks like a 4000 gal. tender.

 

On to a King, this looks to be the same picture as Gatmans but without the numbers. It still has the three feed lubricator, early type of damper levers, it still has the round type of gauge glass protector so it was still in use in 1927 when the Kings were introduced, and the vacuum gauge on the backhead, the gauge was in this position from day one. No speedo fitted.

 

A latter view of a King cab, this loco has a mec. lub. box on the footplate as can be seen by the gauge behind the regulator handle, speedo also fitted. Also a very happy driver.

 

One of the preserved Kings under restoration, lots of bright pipe work in view.

 

OzzyO.

[ozzyo]

on the subject of those tarpaulin hooks, there is a possible way for you to super detail the cab without having to bother with any hooks at all.

 

Hello Gatman,all,

 

It's not the hooks on the back of the cab roof that I'm bothered about it's the ones on the tender. The two upright that the springs from the tarpaulin hook on to.

 

In these photos I think that you can just make one out, just to the left of the water gauge.

 

I know I like my detail but I think that putting the hooks under the cab eave may just be enough to have them nice blokes in the white coats and that jacket with the very long sleeves calling for me.

 

Don't you think I'm mad enough? :crazy: Or do you think I've still a way to go? :crazy_mini:

 

Anyhow it's got the primer on now so they're not going on.

 

OzzyO.

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

the coupling parts, all laid out ready for assembly.

 

All the parts assembled for the two couplings, all that's left to do is to blacken them. You can see the difference in size of the two hooks.

 

OzzyO.

[gateman49]

Hi OzzyO,

 

Fascinating stuff re the evolution of the cabs and the changes in detail.

 

I thought that I'd do some research on a real railway so on my way to my running club night I popped in to Buckfastleigh station on my way from work this evening. It's always dangerous to draw conclusions from preserved locos but on view were 1369 with a single sight feed lubricator glass, 3205 with a three sight feed and 4920 with a five sight feed!

 

By the way, what we have been calling four sight feed lubricators are actually five (see your own picture of 4062 less its tender above). The fifth glass is actually on the outside edge round the corner from the other four. Whether or not Halls had these all through their service I don't know. I spoke with one of the engineers in the workshop and his guess is that as boilers evolved with higher superheat it necessitated a move to more feeds for the bigger engines. On 3205 the feeds were labelled ffrom left to right: cyls, cyls, regulator and it was confirmed that the middle one is a spare. On the five sight the four across the rear face were for cylinders (with duplicate spares again) and one round the corner was labelled regulator. One other observation is that one trick that the enginemen use (at Buckfastleigh at least) is to stick some silver foil behind the lubricator glasses so that they can more easily see the drops of oil flowing through the condensate. So a drop or two of white paint might model this feature.

 

As for the two stanchions on the smaller tenders, I've never bothered to model them as they really are vulnerable. It's bad enough not bending the front fire iron support (which I always manage to mangle or catch - never wear a woollen pullover).

 

Regards