Building a G.W.R. Castle + more in 7mm OF from a JLTRT kit restarts on P.88 by OzzyO,

[steve fay]

Any pictures of that hall in under coat?

[ozzyo]

Any pictures of that hall in under coat?

Coming soon,

 

OzzyO.

[steve fay]

Mate, start a new thread. And show us all the bits so far. Your title could be,

Ozzys Show tunes staring Annie. A slow build loco just for me.

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

I'm back working on the 15xx, a quick up date at where I left off. The frames as I last posted.

 

After a couple of coats of black etch primer, I did at first mask off all the valve gear but it was leaving shadows on the frames, so I removed it all and I will have to remove the paint from the rods later,

 

For this loco we had got a set of rods off Bill at Premier Components, as this loco had been a bit of a pig in a poke I thought that I'd get my axle jigs out just to make sure that the rods would fit. I'm glad that I did. The etched rods on the inside, Bill's rods on the outside, I could not get Bill's rods to go onto both of the axle jigs.

 

One of the etched rods with a top hat bush in place that looks like a lot of play.

 

One of Bill's rods on the top of an etched one, so which one's correct?  After spending some time measuring the axle centres, this is what I got.

Full size, 6'4" scale size 44.34mm measured size 43.4mm so short by 0.94mm.

Full size 6'6" scale size 45.5mm measured size 45.63mm so long by 0.13mm.

So it's no wonder that Bill's rods wont fit. 

 

So I ended up having to use the etched rods, checking that the frames would roll along nicely. Plus side they did.

 

The next job was to assemble the plungers. These are 4mm Gibson one's. Soldering the pick-up wire to the tail of one of the plungers. The self locking tweezers are to act as a heat sink.

 

Fitting one of them in to the frames. Some people may like to fit the pick-up wire after the plungers are in the frames, but I think that doing it this way has less ping factor.

 

Fitted in to the frames.

 

The frames all rodded up, still a bit of paint to remove.

 

To go back to the start, this is what I had to start with. After all the work I do think that they look better (I hope).

 

OzzyO.

[Horsetan]

Love the 15xx. Much-neglected in 4mm scale - only K's ever had a go at producing a kit.

[84B Oxley]

Ozzy

 

Relieved you had the same problem with Bill's rods on the 15xx. Me too. So that's at least two spare sets knocking around..............Photo of my battered 1507 attached. I chose 1507 because I found a photograph of it returning home from overhaul at Stafford Road works on a Wolverhampton-Worcester stopping passenger train. Bet that was fun for the crew !

 

Jeff

 

P.S. Mine 'waddles' just like the real ones.

[ozzyo]

Hello Jeff,

 

I don't think that it's Bill's rods that are at fault. It's the kits wheel base. I will do a check on Bill's rods just to make sure and will let you all know.

 

This loco was bought as R.T.R. Ready it was, run it did not. That was when I was asked to have a look at it.

I have noticed that you have got your con. rods on the inside of the cross-heads as they should be. On the one that I have been having a look at these have been placed on the outside of the cross-heads. 

 

The one that I'm working on is from CRT, is that the same one as you have done? If it is well done.

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. if you go back a few pages you will see the work that I've had to do on the bodywork as well. More to follow in the next thrilling instalment (more like X rated). With a bit more work this could have been such a good kit.

[Horsetan]

.... With a bit more work this could have been such a good kit.

That could be said of quite a few kits!

[JeffP]

Ozzy, which do you prefer for plunger pickups, Slaters or Gibson?

 

Can the ones made for 4mm not be used for 7mm scale giving a lighter spring pressure?

[ozzyo]

Ozzy, which do you prefer for plunger pickups, Slaters or Gibson?

 

Can the ones made for 4mm not be used for 7mm scale giving a lighter spring pressure?

Hello JeffP, all,

 

I don't mind using the 4mm Gibson plungers on small locos that may only draw say 1 Amp. or on big locos that have a good motor and gearbox (say a Maxon and a Chaplin box), IIRC I built a King that only drew 1.3 Amp. when it was on the stop blocks and the wheels slipped. When the wheels lost traction the power went down to about 0.75 Amps. I think that this loco had Slater's plungers and a Cannon motor and Chaplin gearbox. It would also pull a twelve coach train all day on the owners layout. But it does take a bit of driving to start this lot on the climb out of the station. I think that I had to set back three times to get it to start moving one day.

 

Back to the pick-ups. If your going to use a motor that can draw say 3 Amps. (some thing like a big Buller motor) then I don't think that the Gibson plungers would be up to the job. As I think that the small section that the power has to go through could heat up to much (someone  may help me more on this).

 

I have also read that the more power that goes through the spring it makes it losses tension, how can that be as the spring is only acting as a spring, all of the power is being moved by the plunger, not the spring. But if the cross sectional (is that spelt right?) area is too small the plunger could heat up and affect the spring.

 

I do like plungers, but spit axles can be better in some cases (sorry Sandy).

 

OzzyO.

[84B Oxley]

Ozzy

 

I didn't mean to infer that the problem was with Bill's rods, far from it, I'm a very satisfied customer of his and will be buying some more at the Leigh show on Saturday. No, it's the model that's wrong but the discrepancy is relatively small and I've decided to live with it and keep the etched rods. I don't think Bill does a dedicated chassis for the loco otherwise I'd contemplate getting one. But on the other hand, the design of the loco is so complex that transferring cylinders/motion etc. from the old to the new would be a major P.I.A.

I think my model predates CRT and has its origins in the murky past, possibly DA kits? Mine was bought RTR too and ran, after a fashion, but was lacking in a lot of detail, which I've now added, along with a new chimney. And my conrods were on the outside as bought, maybe that's what the instructions said many moons ago.

 

Jeff

[JeffP]

Thanks for that wisdom, Ozzy, it wouldn't have occurred to me to think about the current they have to carry.

 

As regards the springs, if they get hot due to current flowing in the plunger, ( Heat generated is a function of Current squared), they tend to lose their tempering. We have had experience of just that over on another site, when Cibie lights using an H2 bulb were fitted with 130W bulbs, instead of the rated 55W.

 

They bulbs got hotter, and so did their holders, which incorporate a spring that makes contact. In no time at all, the springs were too weak, the contacts were poor, arcing occurred and the bulbs burned out.

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

back on to the Hall build, in my last post the backhead looked like this,

 

The last part has been added, the fire hole flap chain, the backhead has now also been grit blasted,

 

This is what it looks like after ultrasonic cleaning, it may have some staining but it is clean.

 

 

I was going to post more but it's about 1/2 12 and the day has caught up with me and I'm going to have to be up in six hours, so I'd better go to bed.

 

OzzyO.

[3 link]

Very nice detail which it needs as the cabs quite exposed, oh and do not forget to ask uncle Pete on Saturday about the 11th .

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[JeffP]

Ozzy, do you use brass, or copper for cab pipework? And (how) do you get it shiny again?

[Western Star]

Hi Paul,

 

Um, the gauge frame... is that the GWR Oz version (for fitting when Pendennis went to Oz-land).

 

regards, Graham

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

first question, sorry no can do about next Sat. full van,

 

I use copper wire for the pipe work, and then just paint it all. After that its up to the painter to sort it out. It may sound a cop out. But if you look at colour photos of real locos (in steam days) they were not all polished brass and copper pipe work.

 

As this is a Hall I'm not sure what your saying, if what you saying one gauge it a bit too big, please compare these photos,

Castle, that has a Mec. lube. fitted, note the oil no oil gauge, the gauge is under the drivers R arm.

Starting at the L/H bottom gauge, steam heat , boiler, top Right duplex vacuum, the next one should be the speedo, then just in board of that the oil no oil gauge.

 

This shot is of a King that is also fitted with Mec. lub. the Lub gauge is partly obscured behind the end of the reg. arm.

 

The model back head ( or more collectiy the boiler front), please tell me what is that wrong, if a gauge is a bit over size please remember that you are looking at some thing on your puter screen that is only about 1 1/4" tall.

 

OzzyO. 

[Castle]

Hi Ozzyo,

 

What Graham is referring to is the gauge glass frame which you have with the lever on the wrong side. There should be two try cocks in the space that you have the lever to shut the frame down in. Currently your backhead is illegal as there is only one method of telling how full the boiler is... If you wanted to be pernickety then there should be a lamp iron on it too.

 

That was very well spotted Western Star.

 

I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Grasshopper John]

Yeh OzzyO, and where is the tin flask for making a cuppa which is on the shelf.

 

Edit: and the tea cup.

[Castle]

Hi Grasshopper,

 

Now, if you want to be REALLY pernickety, then the lid of the flask is the cup and if the engine is going along then is more likely to be on top of the flask to prevent it slopping as per this:

 

http://www.footplateequipment.co.uk/enamelteabrewcan.shtml

 

I'll get my coat...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

I'm back working on the 15xx at the moment.

First off was to connect all the pick-up wires to the motor, after this was done apply some power and give it a run. The gearbox is a fold up etch affair that was built when when I got the loco sent to me for some work to be done on it. To say that it made some noise is a bit of an under statement, but it had run. After less than an hour this is what I had left.

 

A new gearbox is now on order from Bill at Premier Components for it. When I take it out I'll have a good look at it and see what the cause of the problem was. The worm wheel is foobard, this is one of the reasons that I don't use fold up gearbox's.

 

Back to the body. When I was cleaning up the chimney I noticed a small blow hole on the rim, so I cleaned it out with a small bur until it looked like this. 

 

Then it was filled with solder and filed back until it looked like this,

 

Most of the new casting fitted to the loco, I've noticed that I've got the fillers on the wrong way round so I'll have to take them off and sort them, the cab steps have also been refitted,

 

 

 

There is still some work to do but I think that it's looking a bit better than when I started on it.

 

OzzyO.

[JeffP]

A BIT better? Understatement of the thread.......

[BR(W)]

Hello, OzzyO.

 

The 'before' and 'after' shots should be something as it's already looking superb even in its underwear... It just looks impressively right - a bit of a beast (in more ways than one, I'm sure you would say!).

 

Cheers,

 

BR(W).

[steve fay]

Thats looking a lot better, It does capture the look of a 15 until you start to pick out the errors in the kit design, but it does show the brutishness of the prototype, all we need now is a quality kit to come out to do the prototype justice. And il have one!!

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

as you seen in my last post the gear wheel was shedding like it was rain on a day in last summer. So out it came, I still had a bit of work to do on the frames, like paint the buffer beams and fit the A.T.C. battery box (that I had forgot),

 

 

So it was back to work on the body, refitting the water fillers and a bit of a clean up and I can start throwing some paint on it. That was not to be, (it came off in my hands Honest Gov.). So I now have a two piece body, all was not lost as I could drill the steam pipes for the sniffting valves. When I looked inside the smokebox there was no adhesive to be seen. It looked as though it was just a push fit.

 

So out came the 30 min. epoxy (nice and runny), while I was doing this I noticed that two of the steps had come off the tank front (oh fcuk blast, I said where are they) after spending about 30 mins. sieving the grit n the grit-blaster, no sign. So Off I went to make a brew, when I came back the little blighter's were on the workbench. All that holds them in place is the glue on the thickness (about 12 thou.) of the steps, no slot for them to fit in! I may drill two small holes under all six of them for some short lengths of wire to try and add a bit of support (it wont be right but it's better than the steps falling off).

 

What can go wrong tomorrow?

 

OzzyO.   

 

PS. spot what I've done wrong.

 

PPS. false alarm, the photo was taken before I'd removed the water fillers.