Building a North Eastern Q5/2

[mikemeg]

All but the third set of splashers, which are part of larger sandboxes and are white metal castings, are now done. Once the curves on the top pieces are formed to the correct radius - and I did this by hand with the aid of the 1/8" file handle for the extremities of the curves - then locating them on the splasher fronts is made comparatively easy by the design of the kit.

 

As the footplate consists of two layers, the bottom layer provides small 'shelves' at each end of the splasher top onto which these parts rest. They can then be tacked at each end and then more comprehensively soldered. I tinned the inside of the splasher top and then, after being tack soldered at the ends, wiped a dry iron over the joint between the splasher sides and tops, finishing off with fine emery.

 

This is the first of Arthur's loco body kits that I have ever seen and I think it is fair to say it is a design masterpiece, with so many parts interlocking or fitting with tabs into slots. Of course the 'quid pro quo' for this design approach and precision, and the precision of the etching, is that the parts which use a layered technique i.e. the cab, the footplate must be assembled accurately, otherwise the benefit of all of this design provision is compromised by slots and holes not aligning.

 

The instructions do describe, for each of the layered parts, exactly which parts to use as datums for the assembly of these parts and in general, these positioning parts are removed, for later attachment, after the soldering up of the layers.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

When Arthur sent this kit to me, he had very kindly rolled the boiler, though the firebox still had to be shaped. Using a piece of 22 mm diameter wooden dowel, I filed up the bottom edges of the boiler, just to remove any burr and to clean up the metal where the soldered bottom joint will be. A slight bit of pressure and the two edges of the rolled boiler now touch so there should be minimal stress on that soldered joint.

 

The parallel bottom sides of the firebox were first straightened against a steel ruler, up to the point where the reverse radii of the firebox begin. The reverse radii were then formed by gently bending the firebox sides over a 1/16" drill as a guide and then checked against the etched former which had been cut out from the etch fret.

 

After a little judicious adjustment, the firebox sides sit nicely over the loco frames and the back of the firebox goes around the petals on the cab front without any problem, leaving the tiny holes in the cab front showing and lying equidistant from the cab front beading around the full extent of the firebox. The tiny holes in the cab front can then be opened out for the various control rods, as per the instructions.

 

All in all this operation was relatively simple, though it is worth spending time to get as good a fit as possible, prior to any further assembly of the boiler. In the photo below, the boiler and firebox are simply pushed over the cab petals and supported at the front end; nothing is yet fixed.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

During the build of this, so far, I have used a couple of different makes and types of solder, all of which have been lead free. Now I thought I was reasonably good at soldering - not brilliant but reasonably good - yet I have really struggled with this lead free solder. Yesterday, visiting an old mate of mine who is a first class modeller, he gave me several feet of 60/40 flux cored solder, of around 3/64" diameter. Suddenly, I can solder again; suddenly all of what I thought I knew I do know, though I still have room for improvement.

 

So, armed with a solder which runs like water off the end of the trusty Antex, then I set about soldering up the bottom seam of the boiler - two minutes. I then folded up and soldered up the smokebox front and rear with the strengthening pieces holding both together - fifteen minutes, no more.

 

So just the boiler front former with an 8 BA nut attached, soldered into the boiler 2 mm from the front and the two smokebox wrappers and then the boiler and smokebox can be attached.

 

Yes, I know a bad workman blames his tools, but does tools include lead free solder?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Jol Wilkinson]

Mike,

 

in his book, "Etched Loco Kit Construction", Iain Rice recommends 145 degree solder and a liquid (12% phosphoric acid) flux). In my experience this always works, provided you have a suitable soldering iron and the "work" is mechanically clean i.e. no tarnishing, etc..

 

I never found cored solder very good for kit assembly as you need to melt the solder to activate the flux, whereas a seperate flux has already prepared the metal to receive the molten solder.

 

Jol

[Horsetan]

That smokebox internal cross-brace assembly is broadly similar to the one that Connoisseur Models use in their kits. Works well.

[mikemeg]

That smokebox internal cross-brace assembly is broadly similar to the one that Connoisseur Models use in their kits. Works well.

 

When first I looked at this smokebox internal bracing, given the quite delicate nature of this assembly, I did have some trepidation as to how strong it would be. I needn't have worried; it is very strong. The inner smokebox wrapper has been rolled and the reverse curves formed around a 3/16" drill and then checked against the smokebox former for profile. Everything looks ok so the smokebox rear former was tacked at the top and then the whole thing was clamped, quite gently, into a tool vice which held the former tight into the curves while the whole of the rear former was soldered to the wrapper.

 

This process was then repeated for the front former, after which the whole thing was cleaned up at the front. This leaves a .5 mm overhang of the rear of the smokebox wrapper over the boiler. The bottom edges of the wrapper were then filed back to the level of the bottom of the smokebox - only a few thou necessary - and the whole assembly just pushed against the boiler and checked for fit. So far, so good.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[ArthurK]

Mike,

 

in his book, "Etched Loco Kit Construction", Iain Rice recommends 145 degree solder and a liquid (12% phosphoric acid) flux). In my experience this always works, provided you have a suitable soldering iron and the "work" is mechanically clean i.e. no tarnishing, etc..

 

I never found cored solder very good for kit assembly as you need to melt the solder to activate the flux, whereas a seperate flux has already prepared the metal to receive the molten solder.

 

Jol

 

Must confess I rarely use 145 solder. It is always 60/40 for me. The iron is set to 375C (405 if is a 'heavy' job). I always use phosphic acid flux and never rely of the flux in the multicore. It disappears as soon as it touches the iron. I also use a very small diameter solder rather then the bigger stuff.

 

ArthurK

[Horsetan]

I use 145 for valve gear. Otherwise 188, or whatever I've got to hand.

 

Have used multicore, though, without too many disasters - you wouldn't want to see the Craftsman "Schools" chassis frames I tried to assemble with multicore when I was an A-level student, though.....

[Steve Taylor]

you wouldn't want to see the Craftsman "Schools" chassis frames I tried to assemble with multicore when I was an A-level student, though.....

 

oh...... go on. youwillyouwillyouwill.

 

Now lets get back to the important stuff, bring on the Q5

[ArthurK]

oh...... go on. youwillwouwillwouwill.

 

Now lets get back to the important stuff, bring on the Q5

 

Do you mean Mike's build of the Q5/2 or the original Q5/1?

 

ArthurK

[Steve Taylor]

well not to be too rude, Mike's build please. I might prefer a Q5/1 but so far this tale of a Q5/2 is prooving rather interesting and slowly helping to build up my confidence to tackle this sort of work without being scared of trashing a quite rare piece. Thanks are due again to Arthur for making available some more of the NER in a rather exquisite manner (I'm not sure which I want more, the loco on a layout of Barnard Castle or the etches framed) and to Mike for taking time away from construction to post his thoughts.

[mikemeg]

well not to be too rude, Mike's build please. I might prefer a Q5/1 but so far this tale of a Q5/2 is prooving rather interesting and slowly helping to build up my confidence to tackle this sort of work without being scared of trashing a quite rare piece. Thanks are due again to Arthur for making available some more of the NER in a rather exquisite manner (I'm not sure which I want more, the loco on a layout of Barnard Castle or the etches framed) and to Mike for taking time away from construction to post his thoughts.

 

Thanks for this and I'm sure Arthur would echo that too. This whole exercise is proving a great joy, even with the frustrations of the 'lead free solder' and writing and posting my experiences and thoughts is merely part of that joy.

 

Yes this kit is detailed, yes this kit needs some care and patience but then all kits do. Yes this kit can be built by any modeller who has some soldering proficiency and who has an average level of skill. And anyway, skill is an acquired thing; none of us was born with a soldering iron, or with a set of needle files. So just take the plunge, take it slowly and just take care.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[ozzyo]

Hello All,

I've tried lead free solder and its c##p, about the only use I can think of for it is to melt it down and make loco weights out of it.

 

OzzyO.

[multiprinter]

Hello All,

I've tried lead free solder and its c##p, about the only use I can think of for it is to melt it down and make loco weights out of it.

 

OzzyO.

 

Why bother? Without the lead it won't be heavy enough anyway.

[ozzyo]

Why bother? Without the lead it won't be heavy enough anyway.

 

 

 

So it's no use at all then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

OzzyO.

[mikemeg]

Far be it from me to 'pour scorn' on lead free solder but I shall not be using it any more. So, after a weekend sorting out the garden and planting early potatos. then back to the Q5/2. First job was to fit the outer smokebox wrapper; this fits over the inner wrapper and is slightly narrower, leaving a .5 mm 'step' at the rear of the smokebox. It would be very easy to roll this such that it will not sit absolutely square and with gaps between it and the inner wrapper. However, this didn't happen and the outer wrapper went on without any problems. A quick clean up on the front and rear edges and all is well.

 

The boiler washout plug covers and plugs were then fitted, again with no problems, after which I made a start on fitting the boiler bands, with four of the six now fitted. I have also fitted the small steps on the smokebox front, which fit into slots on the front to provide accurate positioning.

 

I'll wait to fit the firebox front until I see how much space there is for this with the motor and gearbox in position.

 

I do now have the 30 swg wire for the springy beams so will now go back to complete the tender.

 

Once this loco is complete, then I intend to return to the D20's, having built a chassis for one of them with another chassis awaiting assembly. The intention is to scratch build both the locos and tenders so this kit is providing invaluable experience in the way in which NER locos were actually built. I'll post a thread on those builds once this loco is complete.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

While I finish the tender, a little more has been done to the loco body. The smokebox and boiler are separate assemblies on this kit; probably on most of Arthur's ex NER locos, because of the larger diameter of the smokebox (almost 9 inches larger than the boiler diameter, on the Q5/2). The two assemblies are designed to bolt together, using an 8 BA nut and bolt. The join between these two sections, on the prototype, was a brass ring with a 90 degree quadrant section.

 

So I used a piece of 1 mm brass wire and filed it approximately half flat to around .5 mm. This was then annealed, just using a cigarette lighter, and then rolled to a diameter of around 23 mm - the diameter of the boiler. It is surprising just how easily this half round brass rolled, once the springiness had been taken out of it. This ring was then soldered to the front of the boiler, after removing any burr from the front of the boiler wrapper. Care must be taken to ensure that this ring is in contact with the boiler wrapper round its entire circumference.

 

When the boiler and smokebox are re-joined, because of the .5 mm overhang of the smokebox inner wrapper over the boiler, this brass ring now slides inside the smokebox inner wrapper. Sounds more complicated than it is to do.

 

Finally the front boiler band is added and the boiler and smokebox are about complete; just a few details to add.

 

As yet, Arthur has not done the castings for this kit, so there is no chimney or dome. Having selected the prototype which I am building and this will be 63322, the last extant Q5/2, then consulting various records indicates that this loco carried a Q7 type chimney in its final years. These same records also indicate that this loco (though they don't mention the tender) carried LNER group standard buffers also during its later years.

 

So a rummage through the box of bits, located an early B16 chimney (the NER B16 chimney which gave a height of 13' 3" for these B16 locos; the LNER fitted new chimneys to reduce the loco's height to 13' 0"), which was dimensionally very similar to that of the Q7's (or at least one of the Q7 chimneys), though with a capuchon. So the capuchon was removed and a 6 mm ring of .020" plasticard glued to the chimney top, after which a little fettling with the needle files and the chimney is about right. Now to find a 'dome donor' in the same box!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

A little more done to the loco body, yesterday, while I complete the tender. The internal cab assembly has been folded up and assembled. Each of the two seats are foldup assemblies, as is the floor. Location of the seats on the floor is by slots and tabs and does ensure a very square assembly with a little care. The fall plate is a particularly good piece of etching and the fixing does allow it to rise and fall.

 

I have also rolled the cab roof and fitted the front plate and the opening hatch, though this cab roof is not yet attached and won't be until I have done the firebox backhead. Again, this will be a white metal casting in the final kit, however the masters for this still have to be made, so I will fabricate a suitable backhead, probably from plasticard, and fit it once the boiler has been soldered to the cab. That should make soldering the cab roof to the cab quite interesting, avoiding heating up the entire cab too much.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

The two tender side frames for the sub frame, each with its springy beam threaded through the appropriate hole in the etched tab, in this case the second hole frome the top of the tab - there are four holes in each tab at 1 mm intervals, are now soldered to the one piece stretcher. This stretcher is a fold up arrangement which also provides the outline for the tender well tank. I soldered the two tabs, one at each end of the side frame, and then put a seam of solder down the well tank, otherwise there is a lot of distance not soldered.

 

The two end fulcrums for the spring beams, which are 1 mm wire, do need to be cut, if they are fitted across the entire width of the sub frames, as they sit directly above the openings for the 8 BA screw fixings for the tender. This needs to be done at both ends of the tender sub frame. This is no problem provided that this fulcrum is securely soldered into both tender side frames.

 

A quick trial to ensure that each axlebox moves freely within the hornguides and, if everything does move freely, then the tender wheels can be fitted. I used Arthur's recommended tender wheel which is the Alan Gibson 3' 8" 12 spoke, in my case for P4, though these wheels are available for 'OO' and 'EM' gauges.

 

I've always been a fan/advocate of springing/compensation on P4 locomotive chassis, largely because of the need to keep the wheels on the track and to maintain electrical contact between the wheels and the track. With other guages which have deeper flanges and some play in the axles and rods, then the need for springing/compensation diminishes.

 

I have to confess that I wasn't convinced that P4 locomotive tenders needed springing. Having seen how easy this is to do, with the high level components plus some design provision on the tender sub frame, and now having seen just how well a sprung tender rides, even without its being weighted to its running weight, then I am convinced, for this tender rides beautifully.

 

So now we have a rolling, and sprung, tender chassis.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Re the last photo, above, of the loco body, Arthur pointed out to me that the cab roof is on wrong way round. Thankfully, the cab roof is still unattached and so could be very easily turned about. So, in the true pursuit of prototypical accuracy, here's the photo taken again, this time with the cab roof the right way round.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

There is some stunning etching on this kit and, I would imagine, on all of Arthur's kits. Nowhere is this more evident than on the nickel silver frets for the tender and loco chassis and especially the brakes. Given the quality of these etchings and the thought which has gone into the design, then it is worthwhile taking ones time with this aspect of the tender and the loco.

 

The brake hangars and blocks are fold up etches to give that depth on these components. A little care must be exercised when folding these brakes over, to ensure that all of the holes line up, prior to soldering the two halves together. The tabs can then be dressed off with a fine file.

 

Now here I have deviated from Arthur's instructions slightly. The instructions call for the brake hangars and the bottom brake rods to use .7 mm wire; the tender sub frame is drilled for this wire size. Now looking at the journals at each end of the brake assembly, opening them up to .7 mm might just break them, there would certainly not be a lot of metal left. So I opened them up to .5 mm, using the appropriate drill and drilling quite slowly.

 

So I did use .7 mm wire for the brake hangars, cutting them to 22 mm length (the distance across the P4 wheels) and then turned 2.0 mm at each end down to around .5 mm. The bottom rods again used .7 mm wire, this time cut to 24 mm length, with 3.0 mm at each end turned down to around 0.5 mm. This turning was achieved by marking the length of the portion to be turned down and then mounting the wire in a pin chuck and slowly revolving it against a fine file. Checking against a .5 mm hole in the brake assembly soon establishes when the correct diameter is reached.

 

The brake hangars were soldered in place within the sub frame but the brakes were not soldered to them. The bottom rods were soldered to the bottom of the brakes so that each pair could pivot on the brake hangars (first photo below). The pull rods are then folded up and soldered before mounting them over the protruding .5 mm shoulders on the bottom rods.

 

Care must be taken to ensure that the pull rods, which sit outside of the tender wheels, are sufficiently far off the wheels to accommodate any sideplay within the tender wheels without the rods touching the wheels and causing an electrical short. On my model I used two of the 2 mm diameter washers on each side of the end sets of wheels, with one washer each side on the centre set. Thus the sideplay on the two end sets of wheels is restricted while the centre set has a little more sideplay.

 

Perhaps worth mentioning that this whole brake assembly is removable; simply springing off the top brake hangar brackets.

 

So now to complete the brake mechanism.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

The 3940 gallon tender is now about there, just requiring the fitting of handrail knobs and handrails, three link coupling and some details on the tender footplate. That tiny gap between the tender flare and the coal rail should fill with primer; it's only about .005" but it still allows daylight through.

 

This kit does make up into a very nice model.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

The final part of the tender underframe and brake assembly is the cross shaft, with the bracket assembly to the brake standard and the linkage to the pull rods. Arthur advises making this removeable to allow the whole brake assembly to be moved to allow the wheelsets and axleboxes to be removed, if necessary.

 

So following that, I soldered the cross shaft to the brackets on the sub frame, after slotting the cross shaft through the front of the pull rods. The pull rods are not, however, soldered to the cross shaft and so can pivot on that shaft. The final part of this is soldering up and fitting the angled drive shaft and crank up to the brake standard. The front pull rods can then be rotated and the ends of the yoke slotted into the two holes, one each side of the pull rod linkage.

 

The two photos below show the arangement and how it works. I've also sourced a suitable dome for the loco, again from the bits box.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

With the tender now completed, apart from the handrails, weighting and some small details, then time to start work on the locomotive chassis. The first job is to cut out the mainframes and to remove the portions for the hornguides and axleboxes, using a fine bladed piercing saw.

 

The coupling rods are etched in two different formats on the same fret :-

 

One set etched as 'solid' which can be simply folded up and used as solid, or can be cut and soldered up to provide articulation at the two centre crankpins.

 

Another set for which each of the two rods is etched in three pieces with provision for the appropriate slots and forks in the ends.

 

In both cases the rods are double thickness, using a fold up technique, which does provide very nearly scale thickness on these components.

 

I'm using the slotted and forked rods so each piece has been cut out, folded and soldered and then checked for free running of the fork within the slot. I would advise keeping solder away from the slot and the forked part of the rod so that when the rods are rivetted together, there is no stray solder to gum and b@g@er the whole lot up.

 

Finally I cut out, folded and soldered up the eight brakes, even though only six will be required. These are handed but the instructions explain the folding and soldering sequence very clearly and, like all else in this kit, the resulting component is very fine.

 

So now for rivetting those rods.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

The coupling rods have now been jointed and articulated, using home made steel rivets. I make these out of steel tacks, which are around 1.25 mm diameter with a slightly larger diameter head. These are just turned in the hand held pin chuck and slowly revolved against fine needle files. The finished rivets are .7 mm shaft, with a 1 mm head, which is reduced in thickness to around .010" and are soldered to the rear of the rod.

 

None of these bound up during the soldering process, though I did insert cigarette paper into the joints (when I smoked I never did 'roll my own' so, perversely, as an ex-smoker I now buy cigarette papers) to try and prevent solder going where solder shouldn't go.

 

Anyway I think the resulting rods have enough vertical play at the knuckles to accommodate any inequalities in the track which this loco might travel over?

 

For weighting the loco and tender I'll follow Arthur's technique of using strips of lead flashing, formed into a roll for the boiler; used flat in the tender. So, as soon as it's dark it's down to our local church, which abounds in lead flashing. No, no, I jest! Our local builder(s) should have some offcuts which I can 'acquire'.

 

Cheers

 

Mike