mikemeg Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Well after spending months and months building signal models, it's now time for something completely different (apologies to Monty Python!). Many reading this topic area will be familiar with the work of Arthur Kimber, who is developing a range of etched kits for various ex-NER locomotive types. Arthur is very busy finalising various kits within his range and so has very kindly allowed me the opportunity to build a 'pre-production' example of his forthcoming Q5/2 NER 0-8-0. These locomotives were rebuilds of the Q5's, utilising boilers from withdrawn Hull & Barnsley 0-8-0's and, as such, were a sub class of the Q5's numbering only fourteen examples. Original and unmodified locomotives were then re-classified as Q5/1's, which prototype is the subject of another of Arthur's kits - see the thread on this build elsewhere in this topic section. So that magical moment when the box is opened for the first time. Just as with Arthur's other kits, the first reaction to the contents is one of sheer delight. The etchings are just a work of art, beautifully executed. The castings, many of which are brass, lost wax, are again, quite beautifully done. There is also an etch of various washers, handwheels and boiler bands, which is something Arthur has now adopted for all of his kits. The instructions are clear and extremely comprehensive and cover the various gauge options to which the kit can be built. The kit includes the NER 3940 gallon tender which, on this prototype, was not fitted with water scoop. Arthur did roll the boiler for me, prior to mailing the kit; this would normally be supplied flat. I will be building this kit for P4, so will take advantage of using the Continuous Springy Beam (CSB) suspension options on both the tender and the locomotive. So what comes in the box; the photos below show that. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I'm going to enjoy this I want to get one of the original Q5s in the near future - which loco will you be modelling? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 I'm going to enjoy this I want to get one of the original Q5s in the near future - which loco will you be modelling? I rather think I'm going to enjoy this too. I'm still checking as to which specific loco number I shall build - probably the last one extant. I still have to provision the wheels, axle bearings, motor and gearbox, so won't be starting on the chassis until I have those items. If anyone has any photos of these locomotives (Q5/2's) please feel free to post them on this thread. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Did the last ones work around Hull at all - if they did young Mr Nicholson may be able to help there. If I do build one it'll be a much earlier period, for Botanic Gardens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Did the last ones work around Hull at all - if they did young Mr Nicholson may be able to help there. If I do build one it'll be a much earlier period, for Botanic Gardens. Again, I'm still checking as to where these locos were allocated. Certainly Selby had Q5/1's right up until they were withdrawn, so reasonable to assume that these may/would have worked into Hull. And as you say, Mick Nich could well have some information as to whether any of these were allocated to Hull Springhead or Dairycoates and when. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Yeadon vol 23 covers the Q5 . The last Q5/2 was 3305 based at Middlesbrough. I will have a further look later as about to go down pub Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Yeadon vol 23 covers the Q5 . The last Q5/2 was 3305 based at Middlesbrough. I will have a further look later as about to go down pub Thanks Mick. I'm resigned to probably having to finish this loco in post 1946 LNER livery - not many Q5/2's received their BR number and livery. Might be a case of Hull Dairycoates 'hiding' the last of these things - as happened with the last B12 in Norwich in 1960/61 - only to find it tucked away at the back of the straight shed, some time in 1950, after which they surrendered it to Darlington for scrapping! If ever Arthur does the Raven Pacific, then I'll start up the 'preservation movement' back in the 1930's, so that they can rescue one of those. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 So that magical moment when the box is opened for the first time. Just as with Arthur's other kits, the first reaction to the contents is one of sheer delight. The etchings are just a work of art, beautifully executed. The castings, many of which are brass, lost wax, are again, quite beautifully done. There is also an etch of various washers, handwheels and boiler bands, which is something Arthur has now adopted for all of his kits. The instructions are clear and extremely comprehensive and cover the various gauge options to which the kit can be built. They certainly look very crisp, with tags well positioned and kept to a minimum (always a good indication). Do the instructions come with a fret diagram with numbered parts? There are plenty on there that could be confusing. Also oany other diagrams? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 - not many Q5/2's received their BR number and livery. Only one: 63322, which got a cab side number but no smokebox plate or tender markings. There's a picture in Yeadon. The Q5/2s are one of my favourite prototypes: they're so ugly, they're beautiful! Despite them being mainly based around Hull/Selby/Newport in their final years, I'm going to have one for Coldstream (it's my layout etc. ). They did get to North Blyth in the 1930s/40s, so that's near enough, both in space and time! It will be interesting to see how this build goes: I expect it'll be a joy to build. Good luck with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Only one: 63322, which got a cab side number but no smokebox plate or tender markings. There's a picture in Yeadon. The Q5/2s are one of my favourite prototypes: they're so ugly, they're beautiful! Despite them being mainly based around Hull/Selby/Newport in their final years, I'm going to have one for Coldstream (it's my layout etc. ). They did get to North Blyth in the 1930s/40s, so that's near enough, both in space and time! It will be interesting to see how this build goes: I expect it'll be a joy to build. Good luck with it. Thanks Tim, 63322 it will then be. As you say, these things were beautifully ugly; they certainly didn't challenge Gresley's A4's or V2's for looks. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted February 22, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2011 Needless to say I will be following this thread closely But I will refrain from adding comments. Instead I will leave it to Mike to give all the nitty-gritty of the build. ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Mick Its not so simple 63338 63313 cabside numbers only (page38 in Yeadon) 63290 63328 63333 all got smokebox numbers as well . 63332 was withdrawn at Middlesbrough in 1949 but was never repaired it was at Cudworth until 28/2 /49 then to Darlington for repair but scrapped instead no idea if it ever got to Middlesbrough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 They certainly look very crisp, with tags well positioned and kept to a minimum (always a good indication). Do the instructions come with a fret diagram with numbered parts? There are plenty on there that could be confusing. Also oany other diagrams? The instructions which I have do not contain fret diagrams, though all parts are numbered on the frets and those numbers are cross referenced in the instructions. These kits are still evolving so any comments on the instructions can still be incorporated, though there is always a limit to how much can reasonably be included, without the instructions becoming a novel. The instructions are liberally illustrated with 3-dimensional diagrams. I believe Arthur was heavily involved, and still is, with the development and use of CAD software so the instructions benefit from that experience. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Mick Its not so simple 63338 63313 cabside numbers only (page38 in Yeadon) 63290 63328 63333 all got smokebox numbers as well . 63332 was withdrawn at Middlesbrough in 1949 but was never repaired it was at Cudworth until 28/2 /49 then to Darlington for repair but scrapped instead no idea if it ever got to Middlesbrough Thanks Mick; perhaps I should buy some Yeadons. Hey Mick, this posting is 00.15 and I guess done when you returned from the pub (see posting #6 above). 'What time do you call this, to be ......................?' Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Up again after a excellent retirement do ( not Mine) . If you need anything else let me know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted February 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2011 There has been some discussion above about the last sheds at which the Q5/2s spent their last days. This is a list that I have compiled from Yeadon's register. Q5/2 Rebuilding dates, Withdrawal dates and last Shed NER/BRNo. Rebuilt Withdrawn Last shed 2119 3253 Oct-32 Nov-48 WHL 1320 3263 May-34 Nov-48 MID 660 3301 Jun-34 Dec-48 HAV 939 3302 May-34-May-43 Sep-47 BLA 1054 3305 Apr-34 May-49 MID 1062 3306 Feb-34 Dec-48 HAV *644 3310 May-34-Dec-45 Jun-48 SEL 653 3316 Dec-33 Apr-49 MID 642 3320 Jun-33 Mar-47 BOR 657 63322 Aug-33 Feb-49 MID *658 3323 Jul-32-Oct-43 Nov-48 MID 659 3324 Sep-32 Oct-47 TDK 661 3325 Jul-33 Mar-47 TDK 769 3329 Apr-34 Dec-46 SEL The table now looks a bit better but must sort out the colours 657 was the only one to receive its BR No. 63322 which it got on 1/11/48 Note that three had reverted to Q5/1. These received the older style cabs Note also that only one of these (No. 2119) was a loco with piston valves. It has been suggested that I point out that 2119 was one with a short tender with 12 foot wheelbase carrying 3701 gallons as opposed to the usual 3940 gallons. No etches are available for this version. ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Arthur, Just for completeness, the shed codes, as at 1948 - 1950, shown above, are :- WHL West Hartlepool 51C MID Middlesborough 51D HAV Haverton Hill 51G BLA Blaydon 52C SEL Selby 50C BOR Borough Gardens 54C TDK Tyne Dock 54B PS This bloody system edits out 'positioning spaces'; this all lined up when I posted it! Just watch it - system - or I'll launch Excel at you! Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 OK so let's get started. When I offered to build this kit, Arthur asked that I describe this build as comprehensively and completely as I could, so if I 'state the obvious' or things which experienced kit builders do as second nature then please bear with me. What I hope to do is convince those who might not yet have built an etched kit that it isn't really that difficult, as long as care and patience are exercised. Arthur's instructions cover not only the specifics of each kit but do also include some more general tips for building etched kits. Again, if I repeat anything already in the instructions, then apologies. I should add that much of this has been derived from my experiences with making the model signals, proving that some techniques apply equally well to any model. I'm starting this build on the tender body - see photo below. First job is to separate the main tender body - part number 7 on the fret. I always do this separation on a firm surface and on the back of a steel rule. This will support the piece to be separated, along its entire length and prevents any distortion of the part, or the fret, as this separation is being done. I normally use a craft knife with a slightly blunted blade (blunted but not blunt) to do this separation. Once separated, then clean off any etching tabs carefully. Hold the part as near to the tab as possible to prevent any bending and use a file which will not 'grab' at the metal. Again, I normally use a well worn needle file for this; might take a little longer but it does prevent distortion. And remember to just wipe the file laterally over the area, once the tab has been removed, just to remove any filing burr. The beading, which is folded back onto the tank side, should be tinned and then the tinning gently rubbed down with fine emery to leave only the thinnest layer of solder, prior to actually folding this beading back and soldering this to the tank side. This reduces the amount of cleaning up which will have to be done. In general, wherever possible, when soldering a small part to a larger part I tend to tin the small part and I always rub the solder fillet down with fine emery, to reduce any overspill when the iron is applied. It shouldn't be necessary to tin the tank side, as long as a fillet of flux is applied. The parts are always folded with the half etched fold mark inside the fold and it is an idea to run a fillet of solder along the inside of such folds, once folded, just as a re-inforcement. These postings will become less 'verbose' as the build progresses. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Folding parts to produce right angled bends. It is absolutely vital to ensure that one half of the fold is held down absolutely flat, along its entire length. Equally is it essential to apply the folding force along the entire length of the part to be folded, otherwise the folding process will distort the part and that's one hell of a job to put right. If you have a folding press then this does it for you. I don't have one so I use an arrangement as per the photo. The steel rule is held down firmly with one hand and is aligned against the fold line; the plastic set square, which is fairly rigid, allows the folding forces to be applied along the entire length, simultaneously. And that steel rule fits nicely inside both folds, isn't that a stroke of luck? So now to crack on with this. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 ...Do the instructions come with a fret diagram with numbered parts? There are plenty on there that could be confusing. .... Certainly looks like the parts themselves are clearly numbered..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Certainly looks like the parts themselves are clearly numbered..... Yes, the parts are clearly numbered and there is a complete parts list contained within the instructions. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 An interesting picture of the Q5/2 bolier as originaly fitted to the ex H&B 0-8-0's Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 PS This bloody system edits out 'positioning spaces'; this all lined up when I posted it! What like this? WHL West Hartlepool 51C MID Middlesborough 51D HAV Haverton Hill 51G BLA Blaydon 52C SEL Selby 50C BOR Borough Gardens 54C TDK Tyne Dock 54B simples The parts are always folded with the half etched fold mark inside the fold and it is an idea to run a fillet of solder along the inside of such folds, once folded, just as a re-inforcement. Are the fold half-etch lines wide enough and deep enough to get away without pre-scoring them? A very common problem with some kits is that they bend but the outside of the bend becomes rounded or that the insides meet to prevent a true 90' bend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Its not so simple 63338 63313 cabside numbers only (page38 in Yeadon) 63290 63328 63333 all got smokebox numbers as well . /quote] But those are all Q5/1s (I think from memory that 63319 got a cabside number as well) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted February 25, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2011 PS This bloody system edits out 'positioning spaces'; this all lined up when I posted it! Just watch it - system - or I'll launch Excel at you! I have the same trouble with alignment. If someone knows how to do this then please tell me. I had a simple text file all beautifully aligned which when copied into the reply box looks perfect. Submitting it destroys all my efforts. Arthur Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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