Lime Street Station

[Steve Hewitt]

Michael,

 

Fulurex Point Motors next:

 

All the track laying and point motors etc. were in place when I joined the Lime Street team, but I've learnt a bit about the way it all goes together.

The point motors certainly seem to be very reliable. I think I can only recall one unit having to be changed in my time.

 

I say unit, because the point motors are made up into a "quick change" standard module, so if one goes down at a show, it should be relatively easy to swap it.!

(Says prayers after a comment like that!)

 

I've got a few snaps I took some time ago, which I hope will help to explain what we do:

 

This is a standard module, with the Fulgurex motor mounted on a small wooden board, all the connections made in a standard way to a 9-pin D Plug on a short length of cable.

Remember, we don't use the built-in micro-switches for traction current.

Frogs etc, are all switched using relays controlled by the "Router".

The micro-switch does feed a signal back to the Router to confirm the motor has actually moved.

If it fails to move the Router stops and flags up an error.

 

This shows a standard unit mounted under a baseboard, and shows the next standard elements:

 

Each motor is connected to its point's operating crank by a "Z" shaped N/S push-pull wire.

The "Z" shape acts as an "Omega Loop" so the motor can drive fully in each direction ensuring the point blades are fully home.

 

Up on top of the board, the crank which drives the Tie Bar is more to scale:

 

This final shot shows a number of such standard units in place under one of the boards:

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Michael,

 

The Control Panels.

 

I'll have to describe the way the control panels are constructed without pictures, I'm afraid.

 

First the diagram was produced in a computer package.

The printing was done by "Proto-Print".

Two versions:

One on paper to use as a drilling and cutting template etc.

One on Acetate sheet which is used in the final assembly.

 

The front of each panel is actually a sandwich.

• Bottom layer is 2mm Aluminium sheet - sourced locally from a metal merchant.
  
• The Acetate layer is in the middle.
  
• The Top layer is 3mm Acrylic, sourced from B&Q.
  

The paper version was used on the Aluminium layer to drill all the fine holes for the Lamp Strings which indicate a Route when it has been set.

The Lamp Strings are chains of 2mm Yellow LEDs which shine through the holes in the Aluminium layer.

With the Acrylic front layer also in place, both layers were drilled for the push buttons and other switches.

 

Finally, the Acetate layer replaced the paper layer for final assembly of all the switches etc.

The whole sandwich is then mounted in its wooden frame which forms the console.

 

 

There is of course a vast amount of wiring inside each panel, and this is all covered by a back plate which carries the external cable sockets. This cover also prevents ramdom access and damage.

(I remember being at Bracknell with the layout when the panels were only part completed.

Being open to the rear, something shorted and blew some electronic thingies.

We had to operate using the "back-up" manual boards for a couple hours while Geoff sorted it all out!

Not a good experience.

Its a nightmare trying to set up routes point by point when you don't practice it.)

 

Steve.

[Michael Woolford]

Steve,

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain things, it's very helpful. Hopefully this new information will help me progress with my own layout. I'm sure your responses will also be of help to many others and as I mentioned in my previous post, it would be brilliant if I get the chance to see the layout in the flesh. I look forward to watching the layout progress.

 

Thanks again,

Michael

[emt_911]

I have been reading this topic on and off throughout the day as I take breaks constructing my own (meagre by comparison) layout.

 

Excellent, breathtaking.

 

I am truely impressed with the level of modelling and technical detail.

 

Hopefuly, one of these days, I might aspire to somewhere close to this level of detail.

 

I must make sure to attend one of the shows that Lime Street Station is at in 2013.

[Steve Hewitt]

Steve,

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain things, it's very helpful. Hopefully this new information will help me progress with my own layout. I'm sure your responses will also be of help to many others and as I mentioned in my previous post, it would be brilliant if I get the chance to see the layout in the flesh. I look forward to watching the layout progress.

 

Thanks again,

Michael

I have been reading this topic on and off throughout the day as I take breaks constructing my own (meagre by comparison) layout.

 

Excellent, breathtaking.

 

I am truely impressed with the level of modelling and technical detail.

 

Hopefuly, one of these days, I might aspire to somewhere close to this level of detail.

 

I must make sure to attend one of the shows that Lime Street Station is at in 2013.

 

Lime Street is scheduled to make the following appearances in 2013:

 

 

Watford Finescale in February.

Lancashire Show (formerly the Blackburn Show) in September, see:

http://www.belmrs.org/

Southport in September.

 

Hope you can make it to one or more of those.

 

Steve.

[clecklewyke]

I see you have been keeping Fulgurex in profit!

 

On my tiny Humber Dock I have had 100% failure of the Fulgurex point motors installed (i.e. I've bought two and both failed.)

 

In each case it was the built-in micro switches, where either the little semi-circular spring has pinged out and disappeared into never-never land or the switch has failed to move the contact when the point was changed. Have I just been unlucky or are these common problems?

 

After my experience I would not consider using them on a large layout.

 

Ian

[Steve Hewitt]

I see you have been keeping Fulgurex in profit!

 

On my tiny Humber Dock I have had 100% failure of the Fulgurex point motors installed (i.e. I've bought two and both failed.)

 

In each case it was the built-in micro switches, where either the little semi-circular spring has pinged out and disappeared into never-never land or the switch has failed to move the contact when the point was changed. Have I just been unlucky or are these common problems?

 

After my experience I would not consider using them on a large layout.

 

Ian

 

Hello Ian,

 

As I said in my earlier post, I wasn't directly involved in the Fugurex installation.

However, John has responded with the following:

 

Hi Ian,

 

Sorry to hear you have had those problems with the fulgurex point motors, I can fully understand you having no confidence in them given your own experience indeed I have heard similar tales from others. All I can say is we have 45 of them (I have just been underneath the baseboards to check !), and up to now they all perform well and have done over the last six years or so without any problems once fitted properly. The little spring you speak of is there to hold the changeover contact against either of the contacts it can make with. On a standard microswitch it is built in, and gives the switch it's characteristic "click".

 

This is definitely the weak spot on these point motors it would have been better if a miniature version of a standard microswitch could have been used, this would also alleviate any issues with dust/dirt. One can only assume cost has a part to play. Fulgurex do suggest you use the bubble packaging as a cover but I find this a bit Heath Robinson, so I fit plates made from clear acrylic over the point motors to protect them from both dust, and damage from fingers etc.

 

 

 

I too "ping" out this spring once or twice whilst fitting them, but luckily for me I found them and was able to refit them, and once aware of this issue care was taken in handling and fitting. Since then I have had no issues with them.

 

I looked at the alternative point motor i.e.the tortoise, and concluded that for me, they were too big, and I prefer the mechanics of microswitches to a sliding circuit board with wiper pick ups even if care has to be taken in set up.

 

With regard to the motor not moving the contacts I can only assume the microswitch mounting block needed adjusting. This to me is a quality control issue and should have been checked before your motor was packed !

 

Regards,

 

John.

[LNERGE]

I have around 40 Fulgurex point motors in use. I have not had any problems at all with them despite their use in a rather harsh environment. The contacts are a little underrated for what i do with them but again no problems encountered. I can't comment on their ability to drive anything mechaincally though as none of mine are attached to anything.

[clecklewyke]

Thank you for your comments. I must have either been unlucky or not careful enough wen installing them. My solution will be to fit a microswitch and hope the motor has enough oomp to switch that as well as move the point blades.

 

I seem to be spending all my time solving silly problems and not doing any real modelling at the moment! I thnk I'll take up some other less stressful hobby such as hang gliding.

 

Ian

[Guest jim s-w]

I have around 40 Fulgurex point motors in use. I have not had any problems at all with them despite their use in a rather harsh environment. The contacts are a little underrated for what i do with them but again no problems encountered. I can't comment on their ability to drive anything mechaincally though as none of mine are attached to anything.

 

What are you doing with them then?

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[LNERGE]

They operate on a polarised circuit and have normal and reverse detection contacts. That's close enough for me to simulate the real thing. I use them to simulate real point motors. Hence my comment about the contacts being a little underrated. They are operating 50 volt BR930 series relays. I've not had any problems though.

 

http://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/Ely_Dock_Junction_L_Frame.html

 

and a rather superb bit on the current arrangements at LLS..

 

http://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/Liverpool_Lime_Street.html

[Nickey Line]

I've just watched the BRM dvd... what a truly astonishing piece of work this is, almost industrial in it's scope and scale!

I'm in awe...

[Colin parks]

Hi Steve,

 

I have just been looking through you recent pictures of the layout wiring. The complexity yet neatness is amazing!

 

Seeing the photos of the wiring on the underside of that baseboard reminds me of a time when I was asked to judge a W.I. needlework competition (yes this is relevant!). Two of the pieces were of equal quality from the face side, so I thought: "lets have a look at the reverse side". The first prize went to the one whose work was was of the highest standard which ever way you looked at it.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Guest jim s-w]

Lancashire Show (formerly the Blackburn Show) in September, see: http://www.belmrs.org/

Southport in September.

 

2 Shows in one month? Masochists!

[figworthy]

Not strictly related to the model, but the NRM Blog has a photo of the cutting some time back

 

 

http://nationalrailw...liverpool-1881/

 

 

Adrian

[Steve Hewitt]

2 Shows in one month? Masochists!

 

They're both very local to us all.

Blackburn is our local club, where Les is the Exhibition Manager, and most of the Lime Street team are members.

 

Southport is fairly near, where John and several of his team have been regular demonstrators.

 

If all goes well, and no repairs or remedial work is required, the layout will be left in its transport frames between the two shows so minimising the work involved.

 

Steve.

[ess1uk]

Epic.

Nothing more to say.

[Andy Y]

For the Lime Street lovers don't forget there's a 45 min DVD with BRM this month.

 

[emt_911]

Absolutely stunning.

 

An excellent DVD which shows the amount of time and effort that has been given to this.

 

If I manage to get just one area of my layout to somewhere near this standard, I'll be more than happy.

 

Keep up the excellent work guys.

[Les Green]

 

Wishing all the Lime Street followers a Happy Christmas and all the best for 2013!

[Derrick23]

Someone in the topic mentioned you will bring your Liverpool arrangement to germany in 2013!

 

 

On which exhibitions will it be presented?

 

Dortmund in april?

Edited December 25, 2012 by Derrick23

[Les Green]

Someone in the topic mentioned you will bring your Liverpool arrangement to germany in 2013!

 

 

On which exhibitions will it be presented?

 

Dortmund in april?

Not invited yet. We have put  a budget to the Dortmund show organisers. We will find out in January if it is accepted and then we will be invited.

[7APT7]

Hi All

 

Great DVD in the BRM mag this month to all you Boys in the club, you must be so proud, and to right with a layout like that and all the behind the work scenes as seen on the DVD....

 

Hope every one as had a great xmas and got all the Loco's/Wagons they wished for...

 

Wishing you all the very best for the New Year and wish you all the very best for 2013 and what ever it may bring you...

 

Jamie

[James]

Watched the DVD, really impressed with the control system! The NX style panel was very impressive indeed! I was curious why the main panel is split in two?

[Michael Delamar]

Watched the DVD, really impressed with the control system! The NX style panel was very impressive indeed! I was curious why the main panel is split in two?

just for transportation, one mounts on top of the other.