S.A.C Martin Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Given the way it was so heavily (and given its awfulness) unaccountably hyped in the 2008 catalogue I suspect that this is just the latest wheeze to get rid of a large stock of horrible old J83s that nobody wants. If anyone has a "horrible old J83" they want to donate to me (for my 0-6-0 kitbashs), feel free to send them over to the Copley Hill Works Twenty years ago, the J83 was probably warmly welcomed as a change, and a nice one, in terms of being a Scottish 0-6-0T which would otherwise in this day and age never be seen in an RTR form. I've wondered (on those rare occasions) if something closer to scale could be made by marrying a Bachmann J72 chassis to a J83 body, but probably not and the GEM kit will be closest to scale anyway. I've said the L1 previously and I'll stick by that, but perhaps not from Hornby but from Bachmann. I've a sudden inclination to say P2 with Hornby as the "named, colourful and express" locomotive style they have may fit in with this perfectly with a nice choice of names and possibly differently tooled bodies. Failing that - a retooled county to match the castle or a king? One I said previous, the other I've noticed has disappeared from last years catalogue... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James90012 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Desiro series of units, or alternatively, new air con mk2s, which for me are the only missing item of principle modern coaching stock up to a high enough standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 27, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2009 Just to add to the DoG froth ... looking at the review of the Clan in HM Hornby seem to have gone to a lot more trouble than they needed to with the chassis for the Clan. It would have been far simpler (and acceptable in my eyes) to have just put a new bodyshell on the exisiting Brit chassis. So, do you think they are already planning another use for this chassis tooling? it would help to justify the Clan chassis if there were to be a Caprotti valve gear version with a modified rear pony ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapford34102 Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 looking at the review of the Clan in HM Hornby seem to have gone to a lot more trouble than they needed to with the chassis for the Clan. Not really studied a Clan review so this might not be feasible but the obvious one is a Standard 5 -fills in the gap. And before anybody mentions duplication it's worth remembering that although they take notice of what "we" say there's lot of other factors involved in deciding what to do. Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 It looks like all bets are off on Hornby doing the new Freightliner Class 70 loco. Bachmann have just announced it today !! http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/ . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 As to new locomotives, I really can't see anything Southern being announced this Christmas and given the Scots, Patriots and Stanier tanks of recent years - not to mention the Clan - the LMS/London Midland Region probably isn't going to see much either unless Hornby pull a blinder with something of Caledonian origin. A loco drive 2P or 4F could be a good bet though in the Railroad Range and the same goes for the Dean Goods. The other area is something in the shunting line. The horrible old J83 disappeared from last year's catalogue and all they've currently got is the J94, the equally ancient 27XX pannier, the Collet 14XX and the Terrier. Of those only the J94 and Terrier still pass muster, albeit neither scored over 70% in Britains Model Railways, so I reckon that at least one new 0-6-0 shunter to the same standard as the Gronk has to be a pretty strong favourite. I'd agree with you on the LMS/LMR line, not least because short of a redone loco-drive 2P & 4F, a Compound, Fowler 7F, Stanier 2-6-0 or the Fowler/Stanier 2-6-2Ts then there's not an awful lot left to do (I'm assuming for the purposes of this post that the Fowler Dock Tank and Garratt are not high on the list of potential LMS releases for 2010.. ) unless they're either going to go head-to-head with Bachmann on something already in their range, or start looking at long-lived pre-grouping prototypes. S&D 2-8-0 anyone? In the shunting line, what might be favourite? Re-visiting one of the 'old stagers' from past Hornby catalogues (Apart from those you've mentioned, L&Y & Caley Pugs, E2, J52 all come to mind) or looking at something new?. The Jinty having been such a staple of the Triang/Hornby ranges for so many years would be an obvious choice, if Bachmann hadn't picked that one off already- Would Hornby be tempted to take Bachmann on with their own all-new version like they did with the 08? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 27, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2009 Not really studied a Clan review so this might not be feasible but the obvious one is a Standard 5 -fills in the gap. And before anybody mentions duplication it's worth remembering that although they take notice of what "we" say there's lot of other factors involved in deciding what to do. Stu Looking at the review in HM they have retooled the tender chassis to take a tender mounted DCC decoder and the drawbar arrangement is a simple on with 4 wires passing to the loco. I can't see what changes have been made to the loco chassis, but HM claim that the only component common with the Brit is the tender body, so that implies a complete new chassis. Of course Hornby could simply use this chassis for all new Brits to recoup the tooling costs, but why not make me (at least) very happy and do a Duke of Gloucester (with sound) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Class 70 as their flagship modern model Well, I'm impressed. First prediction to come true. Bachmann have just announced a couple of class 70 models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold papagolfjuliet Posted November 27, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2009 Given the way it was so heavily (and given its awfulness) unaccountably hyped in the 2008 catalogue I suspect that this is just the latest wheeze to get rid of a large stock of horrible old J83s that nobody wants. Alas, no. New livery (BR unlined black for the first time), so presumably a brand new production run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Well, I'm impressed. First prediction to come true. Bachmann have just announced a couple of class 70 models. Actually, Gareth's prediction was that it would be Hornby's flagship model, not Bachmann's. Still it leaves Hornby a bit short on the D&E front....well, the diesel part of it. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 27, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2009 Actually, Gareth's prediction was that it would be Hornby's flagship model, not Bachmann's. Still it leaves Hornby a bit short on the D&E front....well, the diesel part of it. . Must say I'm rather surprised with this, After dropping the ball with the 66 in Bachmann getting in first with the top spec model, I'd have thought Hornby would have gone all out to get the exclusive for the next major new modern loco in the hope that it takes off in the same way the 66 did (with umpteen other companies later buying them) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted November 27, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2009 Twenty years ago, the J83 was probably warmly welcomed as a change, and a nice one, in terms of being a Scottish 0-6-0T which would otherwise in this day and age never be seen in an RTR form. Actually 33 years ago. It was introduced in 1976. Who says Hornby don't make the most of their toolings! So some of the 2010 introductions could still be around in 2043. Scary! They don't have many highly detailed 0-6-0Ts in the range. Trouble is , much like the 0-6-0 , what type would you model? Always surprised that a J69 has never featured in "OO" back in the 70s I think it was the model that launched Farish "N" Gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Back on the subject of GWR coaching stock - because to be honest its the only thing that currently interests me, I've got plenty of engines already and would really struggle to justify some more. Whilst it might be nice to have toplight stock I think its most likely to be more colletts, either 57 ft or 60 ft and who knows possibly a mixture of the two. I don't think that just because Bachman have done the sunshine stock will prevent Hornby doing the same. To be honest Bachman have only two coaches - an all third and a brake composite and everything else is just those two masquerading as other things. Besides there is more than one potential all third for Hornby to model from the period. If we get five coaches as seems to have been the norm since the upgrading of period stock began, I would like to see the usual composite, all third, (possibly an all first) a brake third (possibly a left and a right handed version!!!) and presumably a composite restaurant car. A restaurant first car and third dining car would be nice but probably would have limited sales so. Who knows perhaps we'll get a set of Cornish Riviera Stock complete with slip coach. My only fear is that the recession and the profit warnings will mean that we have to wait another year before any announcement. Rovex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 Actually 33 years ago. It was introduced in 1976. Who says Hornby don't make the most of their toolings! So some of the 2010 introductions could still be around in 2043. Scary! They don't have many highly detailed 0-6-0Ts in the range. Trouble is , much like the 0-6-0 , what type would you model? Always surprised that a J69 has never featured in "OO" back in the 70s I think it was the model that launched Farish "N" Gauge. That's why I think some kind of 0-6-0T could be a real possibility. If they could do it with the Gronk not so very long ago I'm sure something new in steam could be a real possibility, especially the way the old stuff is being shuffled off. Just a matter of idle curiousity re the J83; what was the idea of the tombstone lights? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Must say I'm rather surprised with this, After dropping the ball with the 66 in Bachmann getting in first with the top spec model, I'd have thought Hornby would have gone all out to get the exclusive for the next major new modern loco..... They're not the only subjects they've missed out on. After Bachmann's early mk 1 Class 37 they had a chance to get in there with one of their own. Then Bachmann got their act together with a better version. Alongside Heljan's 47, they could have produced a competitor to match the excellent effort with their 50, 60, 08, 31 etc. Then Bachmann stepped in again. Too late? Probably what finally put the mockers on doing those two models was the return of the Hobby Co. with their truckloads of new commissions from Vicenza. Is there room for another 66 ? Now Heljan have an 86....the list is getting shorter. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I bought the Hornby D49 body & tender but stopped short of purchasing a Schools just for its chassis....Thing is, if I make a runner, Hornby will only make my efforts look stupid by producing a re-tooled version! Thing is, if you don't do it, Hornby won't go ahead Did someone mention a Beattie Well Tank a while back as being something worthwhile? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Just a matter of idle curiousity re the J83; what was the idea of the tombstone lights? Limitations of the moulding tool I believe, "Nellie" is the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jim T Posted November 28, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2009 I agree with Ron Ron Ron on the opportunities Hornby have missed to expand the D&E market. This leaves the last two of the weaker Bachmann diesels which have yet to be upgraded - the Derby Sulzer (24/25) and the 40. There has yet to be a 4mm Whistler without significant flaws in one way or another, and whilst the drive is good, the Bachmann 24, 25/1 and 25/3 all leave a bit to be desired on the appearance front too - not as bas as the 40, but the front ends just don't quite do it for me. The old Hornby moulding does, which would be fine with an update and a modern style chassis. No ones ever done a 24/1 or a 25/0 either. So how about a new 40? The Lima body moulding wasn't bad (a nose job and an update in terms of handrails, grilles, etc. would do it), but a brand new chassis would be required. The comments further up the thread about the Mk2 coaches are interesting - but it'd be more fun to see what Hornby made of Mk2 B and Cs rather than Es and Fs for me. I think the main reason for poor selling of the Bachmann 2/2As (judging by the amopunt of cheap ones left) is the paint error on the blue/grey models. There hasn't yet been a decent 2B or 2C, and given a bit of care in painting the right shape grey panel they could do quite well, and 2Cs would go nicely with the early 50s or 87s for a WCML layout. On the steam loco front, a new moulding for the 4F should be a no-brainer - how many LMS, LMR and ScR layouts could use one or more 4Fs? There were flipping hundreds of them as well, and there would be a good range of variants (ex MR locos, many tender variations, chimneys and domes, etc, etc.) Some LMSR non-corridors would go well with this release too - and could be a nice complement to the Stanier 2-6-4T, the BR standard 4 and the Black Five. I guess it's too much to expect flush sided Thompson non-corridor coaches? So there are my five: 1. Class 24/25; with an early issue of the 24/1 and 25/0 versions, but a tooling that could accommodate all the other variations 2. Class 40 3. Mark 2C coaches, initially in blue/grey, starting with the FK, SO and BSO and following up with the FO and the BFK 4. Class 4F 5. Ex-LMSR non-corridor coaches, at least a composite and a brake second, could be panelled or flush sided. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Hi, Steam wise, I think it'll be a GWR year this year, but not sure what! D&E wise I think all new Mk3 coaches to come out of Hornby next year, to go with the Mk3 DVT, but not sure what else EDIT: I just thought that they might do Goldern Arrow 1951 Pullmans Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 28, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2009 Is there room for another 66 ? Now Heljan have an 86....the list is getting shorter. . A Hornby 66 at some point is inevitable, with the ex Lima one going into the Railroad range (actually I wouldnt be surprised to see a Railroad 66 in this years range...) The class is just too important to modelling the the post 2000 railway not to have it in the range. The only question is how long it will be until Hornby do release one..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 28, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2009 Hi, D&E wise I think all new Mk3 coaches to come out of Hornby next year, to go with the Mk3 DVT, but not sure what else Simon It certainly would make sense given that Hornby have said that they are doing a new mk3 buffet this year (to match the buffet type in the EWS management train). Now it kind of makes me wonder if the management train is going to be delayed to get completely new mk3s (likewise this years FGW ones....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc-10 Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I like the idea of Desiros. They're very modular (with the exception of the 444) with basically the same bodyshells used for all variants, with either corridor cabs or plain. I'll have an SWT one please I doubt that they'd do any Mk.2s- I think that Bachmann (once they've got rid of the last of those dodgy blue/grey ones) will expand the range with other variants, like they did with the Mk.1s. Mk.3s, on the other hand, would be ideal to go with the DVT and maybe a 90? Even if Hornby don't do a new AC electric, the increased interest from Heljan's 86 will surely boost sales of Mk.3s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I bought the Hornby D49 body & tender but stopped short of purchasing a Schools just for its chassis....Thing is, if I make a runner, Hornby will only make my efforts look stupid by producing a re-tooled version! I truly believe that is their game plan Coach, I'm led to believe that the two types are very close indeed in the chassis department. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I truly believe that is their game plan Coach, I'm led to believe that the two types are very close indeed in the chassis department. Dave. Thing is, Hornby tooled up the clan much more than expected - less than what was expected was the same as on the Brit. An all new D49 might well appear, but not necessarily share components with the schools. Given the choice of the schools after the King Arthur, perhaps a 4-6-0 followed by a 4-4-0 will appear - retooled B12 or B17 first perhaps swiftly followed by the D49. An all new D49? I'd got for it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocp Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 The Problem i think with the sales of the A3 is that all but the NRM And Australian Scotsman models, Great nothern and Flying fox have been in BR green. i think some prestige Train packs had BR blue ones, but besides that its all BR green. maybe if Hornby would swap the liveries up a bit, like they have with the Duchess' for example then moving them wouldnt be such a problem. Its a similar situation with the King Arthurs but i think overkill plays a factor with them, how many have been released since 07/08 when they were first released? If you look at the Britannia's aswell once a variant has been done once, if it isnt a famous one, it doesnt really sell. If you look at Apollo it sold out here in Australia pretty fast, id say mainly because of its WR deflectors. So i think Hornby should do more variations of a class first before offering the same basic configuration but with a different name/number. For next year though its gotta be the Duke surely(hopefully)? I think a retooled King and 4F are on the cards. I like the idea of Ivatt Duchess, most of the parts are all ready there it would be just a new cab and Trailing truck plus a few little fiddly bits, Surely easier than what they did with the Clan? With Rolling stock its anyones guess, but for sure its overtime for some Carmine and Cream Staniers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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