sn Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 What does everyone make of this photo that I've come across of St Winifreds Halt from a book I recently bought? Is it just me or is...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 20, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2009 Interesting perspective there! I think that all logic says the vehicles in the siding are on the level - and adjacent verticals e.g. telegraph poles seem to concur with that - while the track coming from top left is seriously downhill, although probably less than it looks. I do hope you haven't breached anyone's copyright with the display of the image on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 That's a painting surely... steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted November 20, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2009 That's a painting surely... steve By Escher perhaps? Perspective does look a bit odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 A lot of early photos were touched up with pen and ink, and there's a number of very early LB&SCR ones of Brighton which look decidedly odd. I think the reason was the inherent high contrast of the early emulsions in which backgrounds simply disappeared, so an artist filled in the missing bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I do hope you haven't breached anyone's copyright with the display of the image on here. The apparent age of the photo suggests it may have been in the public domain for some time. Where is St. Winifred's Halt anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 looks like it has been through an early version of Photoshop made up of more than one image. At the end of the wagons "on the flat" the path/road drops away severely the track on the left looks all wrong it is on an embankment of ballast and what appears to be a camber. It also appears to be wider than the platform. Definitely a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 looks like it has been through an early version of Photoshop made up of more than one image. At the end of the wagons "on the flat" the path/road drops away severely the track on the left looks all wrong it is on an embankment of ballast and what appears to be a camber. It also appears to be wider than the platform. Definitely a fake. Sorry Kenton, but it is a much copied, lost detail of an original photo, as stated of St Winifreds Halt on the Holywell Branch. Unfortunately all my collection of the Holywell Branch LNWR drawings and photos from multiple sources - R.Carpenter and the late Geoff Platt, J.M.Dunn, C.C.Green and J.P.Richards and other now unrecorded sources, plus from local people when I was up there researching the line - I also took over the late John Horton's embryonic Holywell Town EM layout many years ago which came with a portfolio of LMS information on the line... So unfortunately I cannot post a copy of an original print of the halt, found at the back of an old cupboard in Bangor Shed by J.P.Richards. On the original print the names of the PO owners are clear too, I didn't note them down, the photo would have been my reference point. All is now lodged in the Welsh Railways Research Circle Archives. I was not using the material, so as a very long time member I thought it should go somewhere it can be accessed, rather than stay on a back shelf in one of my cupboards... and as I'm concentrating mainly on the bottom end of the Central Wales line, there comes a time when there's to much information lying around. Penlan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Sorry Kenton, but it is a much copied, lost detail of an original photo, as stated of St Winifreds Halt on the Holywell Branch. Unfortunately all my collection of the Holywell Branch LNWR drawings and photos from multiple sources - R.Carpenter and the late Geoff Platt, J.M.Dunn, C.C.Green and J.P.Richards and other now unrecorded sources, plus from local people when I was up there researching the line - I also took over the late John Horton's embryonic Holywell Town EM layout many years ago which came with a portfolio of LMS information on the line... So unfortunately I cannot post a copy of an original print of the halt, found at the back of an old cupboard in Bangor Shed by J.P.Richards. On the original print the names of the PO owners are clear too, I didn't note them down, the photo would have been my reference point. All is now lodged in the Welsh Railways Research Circle Archives. I was not using the material, so as a very long time member I thought it should go somewhere it can be accessed, rather than stay on a back shelf in one of my cupboards... and as I'm concentrating mainly on the bottom end of the Central Wales line, there comes a time when there's to much information lying around. Penlan Well yes, I thought the background looked painted! And badly too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted November 20, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2009 Here's another odd one -- track on the platform! Click the image for more information. A much larger image is available, click the "Full Size" link on the right. More discussion at: http://85a.co.uk/for...437&forum_id=11 Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Aaaah . Gilfach Goch apparently the setting for "How green was my valley " ? . Brian R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 21, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2009 Aaaah . Gilfach Goch apparently the setting for "How green was my valley " ? . Brian R That is my understanding too Brian, it even being suggested to me by one local that the use of 'green' in the title of the book was some sort of wordplay or pun on The Red Valley name of the Gilfach Goch area. Mind you by the time I first saw that valley in the early '70s it really was beginning to go green as the pit and tip clearances up there were just about complete. Now as far as the picture is concerned I suspect it is probably at Gilfach North, not Gilfach Goch (which was 60 chs nearer to the junction), as most railtour organisers liked to get as far as they could along a branch. Gilfach North was I believe used for colliers' trains and without delving I think that at that time Trane was probably still working (behind the train and to the left) while the track in teh foreground went up to Britannic via something almost like a zig-zag although I am far from sure of the detail and don't have the relevant volume of Tony Cooke's books to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOARD OF TRADE Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Not for a moment suggesting that the original poster is trying to "kid" anyone but the image is inmho a fake.I used to run with a friend a small company as a sideline where we bought old postcards,glass negatives,pictures etc. reproduce them enlarged in various formats,mounted and framed and then sell them on at a profit at trade/antique fairs etc. With old photos and postcards a linen tester was an essential tool to examine the images to disclose painted areas which would be plainly obvious when enlarged as well as printed as opposed to original images(just look for the dots). Even without the advantage of seeing the "original" and without the benefit of a linen tester the image(it is not an original unretouched photograph)is so bad that I suspect that it is not only a retouched photograph but a composite repainted image even if it is contemporary. It certainly has no place in any archive without a plain description as being such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 The OP post photo, may be a copied, copied, copy, where the background has been lost/bleached out and from whatever source it came from, presumably one of the post card companies, I doubt if it's Valentines, and then they have filled in a suitable background, not unknown !!! We tend to forget that pre WW2, a lot of industrial places had a 'haze' over them, certainly seen in a lot of the old films shown recently on the History and BBC4 channels, and of course in old railway photo's. Linking St Winifred's and Gilfach Goch is the name Green Valley, or at least I did have a book on Holywell, subtitled the .... Green Valley...., although it's actually Greenfield Valley. BTW 'St Winifred' was called Winefride (of circa 660AD before being canonised). The Well is/was known as the "Lourdes of Wales". The area around St Winifreds was very industrilised, there being many mills there for copper and brass production, I seem to recall it was at one time (presumably late 18th century) the largest producer of Copper in the UK. Lead had been mined in the area from the 16th Century, except when the locals protested - It killed the trees and greenery - There was plenty of factories for Corn and especially wool, this area around St Winifred's is now the Greenfield Valley Heritage Site, plenty more info can be found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/nhob_walk/walk1.shtml. Ironic, I haven't opened the Holywell file for some 20 years, 6 months after transferring the files, this is the third time I could have used the files to answer queries Penlan PS - Although I visited the area in the late 60's, following track beds, it was not until the early 80's I found myself in Holywell on a few weekends with nothing much to do - my youngest son was playing in the Worcestershire County Schools Badminton team and we seemed to have a lot of matches up in Clwyd ... the things we do for our children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Purely from a photographic look, the original is a heavily retouched Victorian photo, the rear landscape is drawn in, This was often done to the negatives, and the prints, before the engraving process for book publication. I collect Victorian Magazines, and books, and the work is typical of hundred of similar photo views, an artist would go over the print very heavily, to ensure it would satisfy the publisher, not to be an accurate photo. It may well be two or more shots, for the back ground, assembled by the artist engraver. The foreground is a bit odd due to false perspective, with the line ascending, and the rest apart from the siding falling away. The leaning telegraph pole at the left hand side confuses the viewer as well. The original, and a somewhat quickly corrected Photoshop version are above. Stephen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 22, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2009 The name of the halt was actually St Winefrides although the location was apparently usually referred to as St Winifrides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon_Eng Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Hmmm, it might well be fake but assuming it's genuine... 1.) The angle is off and the mainline isn't level 2.) The wagons have very good brakes 3.) The 'siding' is part of a rope-hauled line. The tracks that some have left behind are pretty steep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted November 23, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2009 As has been suggested the siding is level and the "main" line is on a steep hill. I drive up and down the road to the right of the scene reasonably frequently, and even the road is steeply graded. Funnily enough I picked up some more photos of Holywell Town this weekend B) - Holywell Town with pacers and 66s .... :icon_idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBateson Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 As has been suggested the siding is level and the "main" line is on a steep hill. I drive up and down the road to the right of the scene reasonably frequently, and even the road is steeply graded. Funnily enough I picked up some more photos of Holywell Town this weekend B) - Holywell Town with pacers and 66s .... :icon_idea: While I recognised this pretty quickly surely pacers and 66s could not be at Holywell Town, the track was lifted eons ago ... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 26, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2009 While I recognised this pretty quickly surely pacers and 66s could not be at Holywell Town, the track was lifted eons ago ... John I had the impression that Beast was being iconic :icon_rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I had the impression that Beast was being iconic :icon_rolleyes: Surely"ironic"? Stephen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 26, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2009 Surely"ironic"? Stephen. Look carefully at the end of Beast's post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted November 26, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2009 Never to be built layout plan #2332 it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Nevard Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Whatever it is, it would make a great model! :icon_cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 26, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2009 Whatever it is, it would make a great model! :icon_cool: I think it might appeal to you even more than the pic suggests as down to the right there were apparently all sorts of small and smoky industrial establishments at one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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