Hornby Horseboxes

[gwrrob]

Evening,

Also appears that on my GWR version there is only the number and GWR roundel on the side. Would there have been XP/WB/Tare data etc details on these wagons?

 

I'm modelling the GWR post war and as Rob said earlier the roundel would still have been found on wagons, but would a plain G W in gold also have been a possibility?

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

 

All the info was on the underframe Mark and Hornby have chosen not to model it.I assume the plastic won't take writing due to the material.It does look bare though.Transfers might be an option.I would say the GW lettering post war would have been unlikely on these as the shirtbutton came out in 1934.

[46444]

Gold was never used, only yellow.

 

Thanks for the correction Larry. Mistake on my behalf, especially as I had the HMRS decal sheet in front of me when I typed it!

[46444]

Yes but this would have been applied to the solebars and not the body... dilbert

 

 

All the info was on the underframe Mark and Hornby have chosen not to model it.I assume the plastic won't take writing due to the material.It does look bare though.Transfers might be an option.I would say the GW lettering post war would have been unlikely on these as the shirtbutton came out in 1934.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Sorry Rob, I was thinking more of a post 1938 small G W as opposed to the larger version.

 

Interestingly, I have a set of decals for the Parkside N13 GWR horsebox which has all the data on the side of the wagon and not on the solebar. As Larry said earlier, a photo is a must!

 

As for the ends being painted black some research is in order I guess

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[coachmann]

Regarding the vexed question of colour of ends, the GWR Diagram N16 with flat ends (no tumblehome) were built and painted with black ends. This extended over the corner angles onto the sides. In otherwords, there was a vertical black stripe at each ends of the sides and black hinges & door hand grabs. Built from 1937, they carried the roundel. Never large G W.

 

Larry G.

[melmerby]

Regarding the vexed question of colour of ends, the GWR Diagram N16 with flat ends (no tumblehome) were built and painted with black ends. This extended over the corner angles onto the sides. In otherwords, there was a vertical black stripe at each ends of the sides and black hinges & door hand grabs. Built from 1937, they carried the roundel. Never large G W.

 

Larry G.

In Russell's coach book the photo of 546 modelled by Hornby has black ends and corner irons.

 

The Roundel is also about one plank lower on the side.

 

Keith

[46444]

Thanks Larry and Keith for the replies to my question.

 

I thought something was amiss with the paintwork on the GWR version. Out with the airbrush it is then!

 

I've already sprayed the roof grey. So black ends, lamp irons and some weathering should address these issues.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[The Fatadder]

Ended up buying one of these today,

Visited the South Devon Railway and saw one of these in the model shop (and couldn't resist my first purchase for the new layout despite not having any photos justifying one!)

 

P4'd it this evening with a set of Gibson wheels, Hornby break shoes had to be removed in order to fit the new wheels in but thankfully Hornby have at least got space for a set of Gibsons/Maygibs between the wirons

Ended up chopping the NEM pockets off while I was at it (sadly the huge box is part of the chassis rather than a screw fitting so it was out with the xurons) Need to add some new break gear now, (not sure what to use...)

 

And from reading this topic, I assume I should also be spraying the ends black?

[melmerby]

 

And from reading this topic, I assume I should also be spraying the ends black?

 

Yes, It seems a pretty fundamental error by Hornby on what otherwise seems is a pretty good job.

The photo of 546 (I assume that's where they got the inspiration from) is there for all to see.

I thought my Lima version looked OK, but the Hornby (Reworking?) is a few steps up from that.

 

Keith

[Guest dilbert]

In Russell's coach book the photo of 546 modelled by Hornby has black ends and corner irons.

 

Jim Russell's photo of 546 in GW Coaches Part II does not shew the photos of either end of 546 - his notes however do describe the ends as being painted black. In Appendix 2 of the same series, the same 'side on' photo of 546 is reproduced and in this tome the subject of the painting of the horsebox ends is not even mentioned.

 

I'm occasionally sceptical of some of Mr Russell's notes - in his book about 'GW Freight Loads in services on the GW etc.. etc...' he categorically mentions that all PW wagons were ''painted in the usual departmental overall black with white lettering' [sic] ... I have not found a source that corroborates this statement... dilbert

 

PS This does not detract from the overall content of his published works.

[melmerby]

Jim Russell's photo of 546 in GW Coaches Part II does not shew the photos of either end of 546 - his notes however do describe the ends as being painted black. In Appendix 2 of the same series, the same 'side on' photo of 546 is reproduced and in this tome the subject of the painting of the horsebox ends is not even mentioned.

 

Appendix 2 fig 504 does.

 

Keith

[Guest dilbert]

Appendix 2 fig 504 does.

 

Indeed (says he muttering about sight, wood and trees)... dilbert

[melmerby]

Indeed (says he muttering about sight, wood and trees)... dilbert

Easily missed.

 

Interestingly it shows the weight (with cast metal figures) as on normal coaching stock.

 

Keith

[coachmann]

Jim Russell produced a mighty useful series of books on GWR coaching stock and, seeing as he was not a student of liveries, it was innevitable that he would produce a few gafs. The gafs are easily spotted by those who know what to look for.

[autocoach]

I ordered both GWR versions. No need for them on Padstow. I just like GWR horseboxes. Adds to the Lima and Parkside collection. Re-mounts for the officers of HMS Vulture?

[PaulG]

"Steam in East Anglia A Colour Portfolio" by R.C. (Dick) Riley on page 38 includes a photograph which, I believe includes one of these horseboxes. The photograph is taken Laxfield Station on the Mid-Suffolk line and is dated 22 July 1952.

 

The horse box is numbered W 26, with the number at the bottom left hand side on the fodder/store door, not as shown on the Hornby vehicle. I guess the livery is the original BR crimson lake, but it is very dirty and looks more brown-red colour!

 

Has Hornby got the BR lettering position correct on its model?

 

Regards

Paul

[coachmann]

Once BR started using Gil Sans insignia, the running number was put at the LH end of a coach or van side. From 1952 it was decided to move it to the RH end. This didnt happen overnight for obvious reasons. Maybe this applied to Horseboxes as well (this is off the top of my head without looking at photos of horseboxes).

[Guest stuartp]

Having just finished the Parkside N13, I picked one of these up today and it's gorgeous ! I thought I'd done a decent job on the Parkside but I now have to go back and bring it up to the RTR standard ! No criticism of the Parkside intended at all - have we had full brake rigging, yokes and all on a RTR wagon before ?

[PaulG]

PMP & Coachman

 

Thank you for your comments.

 

Another variation Hornby can introduce in due course.

 

Regards

Paul

[coachmann]

I suspect what has happened is Hornby has applied the same decoration (black hinge strapping etc) to the BR carmine horsebox as on a GWR horsebox. In official photos of the GWR boxes initially painted in BR carmine, nothing is picked out in black. Indeed, I was suprised to read PMP had uncovered a photo of a horsebox in carmine with black hinges.

 

The running number with dimensions and tare undernieth were intially painted to the extreme RH end of the side but later paint jobs in maroon carried the number in the waist away from the small lettering. No doubt a number of variants can be found in photos but as I've said, it seems odd to me that BR should pick out the hinges in black, especially if one bares in mind the whole of the countries rolling stock needed to be dealt with, the size of which had not been experienced prior to Nationalization.

[craigwelsh]

have we had full brake rigging, yokes and all on a RTR wagon before ?

Van C and Shark come to mind.

 

There's a bit missing off these due to the coupling pocket which sadly I understand isn't a separate part like on the new LNER wagons from Bachmann?

[Guest stuartp]

Van C and Shark come to mind.

 

Ah, thanks - I'd already built enough of both of those already so I didn't buy the Hornby ones. Mind you. I'm not sure I needed two GW horseboxes either...

[chrisf]

One and the same. From 1949 to 1956 there was only one red and that was what BR called crimson lake (which it plainly wasnt).

 

Um. OK, I'm nitpicking again but strictly speaking it was the Railway Executive that baptised the shade of red "crimson lake". It got called all sorts of other things too - "maroon" in some otherwise learned books, which will lead some to believe what they read, and "strawberry" courtesy of Jim Russell, which must depend on how ripe your strawberries are! I'm not at all sure that the word "carmine" ever received official sanction. The shade of red we are discussing was defined by British Standard 381C and was, I think, number 540. I bet the one for "carmine" is different.

 

Just to prise the lid a bit further off the can of worms, one of the lesser known experimental liveries of 1948 was a dark red, which the Railway Observer for January 1949 reported as not identical to the LMS shade and gave it the name "wine red". Swindon had rather a lot of this stuff and kept using it on suburban stock into the 1950s: a coach was observed still wearing it in the summer of 1957. Now get ready for the sigh of relief, folks: there is no evidence known to me that it was applied to horse boxes. Other knowledgeable people are available ...

 

Chris

[coachmann]

I think I am right in saying it was the well-respected J N Maskelyne, one-time editor of 'Model Railway News', that gave the name "Carmine Red" to the colour BR called crimson. He knew "crimson" would only lead to confusion amongst historians seeing as the LMS, which had only then only recently ceased to exist, had used Crimson Lake as first adopted by the Midland Railway. His remarks were positive and made sense to railway observers of the day.

[brossard]

Anyone noticed the body is on back to front? Mine is the BR version and based on the number, the model seems to be Diagram N15 (1930s) (the only version to be oil lit for the pedantic of mind) and I don't have a specific picture of that. However I do have a few pictures of other diagrams showing the groom compartment to the right of the tank. The models pictured above seem to confirm this. It's not hard to switch the body although some shaving is needed.

 

Comments?

 

John

[Downer]

Brossard, I do believe you're right about the body being the wrong way round - how depressing! You say it's possible to reverse it, but won't you also have to move all the footboards?