Stubby47's Garage Layout - Trelothen

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Just pondering if I can justify a joint railway terminus between GWR & SR, or later BR(W)& BR(S).

 

It would allow a wider variety of stock, plus require a temporary carriage siding to clear the platform for the 'other' train.

 

And I could then buy a KMRC road van.

Yes and no is the simplistiic answer. Thus Padstow - the example given by 'St Enodoc' was an SR station which saw GWR trains just as Bodmin (General) was a GWR station which saw SR trains.    i can't off hand think ofa truly joint GWR/SR terminus in Cornwall but there were further examples in North Devon of an SR terminus which saw GWR trains and vice versa and there were through station s which had joint GWR/SrRsignal boxes with two separate lever frames at opposite sides of a single building.  And of course te ultimate in Cornwall was probably Launceston where the GWR terminus was adjacent to the LSWR/SR through station with the signal box between the two and separate lever frames for the SR and GWR sides. 

 

http://www.northcornwallrailway.co.uk/route2.html

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129659811@N08/48623174837/

 

[Stubby47]

Thanks Mike, so more tolerated than shared.

 

Typically, I'm placing Trelothen on the south coast, somewhere near Mevagissey,  which is nowhere near any SR rails.

 

I perhaps need to look further north to site the line.

[The Stationmaster]

10 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Thanks Mike, so more tolerated than shared.

 

Typically, I'm placing Trelothen on the south coast, somewhere near Mevagissey,  which is nowhere near any SR rails.

 

I perhaps need to look further north to site the line.

If you want to mox things about you definitely need to go further north in the county.  The lonks below might give you some ideas abut what you could write into your own geography as it shows places where the companies came into very close operational proximity in 1915.  What it doesn't show, and what I can't find online is the other part of the Junction Diagrams book which was the list of Running Powers although I do have them in my copy of the complete book for the Post Group period.

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cornwall_RJD_1914

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Devon_RJD_1914

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Railways_Junctions_Diagram_1914

[Harlequin]

I've been re-reading Iain Rice's "Model Railway Layout Design" recently and he says: "If a joint 'Southern/GW'" layout is the concept, then it will call for study of those locations where the two companies did meet - not the projection of some totally unlikely branch into a part of the country far removed from that actually served."

 

Strong words!  But the point is, you seem to be heading in the right direction.

 

[Stubby47]

Agreed, having a joint line ought to be reasonably believable,  even if the actual location is fictitious. 

 

Most of the North Coast harbours are tucked away from the prevailing south-westerly winds, even Portreath has a lengthy harbour wall for protection.

 

Somewhere between Mawgan Porth and Padstow would work ( such as Porthcothan), a branch west of Wadebridge on the SR and similar on the GWR before Tolcarn Junction. Both lines would then join and head west-ish towards the fishing port of Trelothen, where due to the narrow inlet the station was built slightly higher than the goods yard.

 

This means the orientation of the layout/station is south-east to north-west as trains approach.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Stubby47

[Harlequin]

(Apropos of nothing, I used to live in Mawgan Porth - built several dodgy model railways there with my Dad!)

 

[Mikkel]

Stu, have you seen this thread: 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Thanks Mike, so more tolerated than shared.

 

Typically, I'm placing Trelothen on the south coast, somewhere near Mevagissey,  which is nowhere near any SR rails.

 

I perhaps need to look further north to site the line.

Stu, have a look at my good friend @KymN's ideas for his SR Fal Vale line, which might provoke some thoughts:

 

 

[Stubby47]

Mikkel & St Enodoc, 

 

Thanks both for the links, both fascinating threads and both confirm my approach for a mixed company line.

 

I'll need a back story too...

 

This part of Cornwall seems to have had an overabundance of railways, if only they were still all there.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Stubby47

[The Stationmaster]

First the bad news - there was only one station jointly owned by the GWR and SR in the West of England - Plymouth North Road (station only, the railway belonged to the GWR).  The companies had no ointly owned lines anywhere west of Chard

 

Quite a good mix of Running Powers.  It should be undersood that not all Running poewers applied to all types of train and some in the lists below were never exercised.

 

GWR over SR -

Barnstaple Jcn - Barnstaple. Jcn station (but some GWR passenger trains ran through to ilfracombe)

Boscarne jcn - Wadebridge

Cowley bridge Jcn - Crediton

Cattewater Jcn - Plymstock Jcn

Cattewater Jcn - Turnchapel

 

SR over GWR

Devonport Jcn - Keyham Dockyard Sdg

Devonport Jcn - Friary Jcn

Exeter St Davids - Cowley Bridge Jcn

Lydford Jcn - devonport Jcn

Laira Jcn - Friary Jcn

Plymstock Jcn - Yealmpton

 

Before anybody asks the obvious questions that Running Powers don't include some sections of line over which one or other  of the companies operated their trains over the railway owned by the other.  Barnstaple Jcn to Ifracombe is particular example.  in most instances these arrangements took place on a reciprocal basise rather than formally noted as Running Powers

[Keith Addenbrooke]

21 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Thanks Mike, so more tolerated than shared.

 

Typically, I'm placing Trelothen on the south coast, somewhere near Mevagissey,  which is nowhere near any SR rails.

 

I perhaps need to look further north to site the line.

I’ve been following this part of the conversation with interest (elsewhere I’ve been following a thread about ‘freelancing’).  But it doesn’t matter how many times I’ve tried saying it to myself: I just can’t convince myself that “The Withered Leg” could ever sound quite right.  A North Cornwall setting could be great though - certainly interested to see how this develops, Keith.

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I’ve been following this part of the conversation with interest (elsewhere I’ve been following a thread about ‘freelancing’).  But it doesn’t matter how many times I’ve tried saying it to myself: I just can’t convince myself that “The Withered Leg” could ever sound quite right.  A North Cornwall setting could be great though - certainly interested to see how this develops, Keith.

How about the Withered ....

 

No, not going there.

[Stubby47]

I have, er, ordered one of the aforementioned Road vans.

 

I might need a suitable SR loco too, plus some green coaches.

[Mulgabill]

15 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

I have, er, ordered one of the aforementioned Road vans.

 

I might need a suitable SR loco too, plus some green coaches.

 

Hold on Stu, I think you'll need about 6 or 8 Panniers, before

that becomes a "reasonable" option.

 

On another note I'll have you know I hold you at least partially responsible.

For last nights sleepless sojourn, whilst I toyed with the idea of adding to

the front of my Fiddle yard, to make a terminus for a "new" goods branch

from Helstonish. Based on the potential of Porthleven, where my

grandparents lived in the 60s. That in turn prompted thoughts of potential,

expensive developments of out outbuilding (shed - but stone built) to

both fix it's roof problems, and add to available layout space.

 

I thank you, for once again giving me a kick up the....

 

So you deserve the road van

all the best

 

TONY

[Stubby47]

Don't tell anyone, but I'm up to that number of panniers, oh and prairies.

 

Just been browsing the BR Standard 3MT on the KMRC website, this is a very slippery slope...

[Oldddudders]

Stu - your desire to devise a back-story for the new layout is admirable and adds value, but is not actually a pre-requisite to track design and getting started. New locos need somewhere to run, to feel at home. 

[Stubby47]

Oooh, this is interesting...

 

 

From http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/p/padstow/

[Oldddudders]

Bedruthan would be a Step in the right direction.

[Stubby47]

19 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Stu - your desire to devise a back-story for the new layout is admirable and adds value, but is not actually a pre-requisite to track design and getting started. New locos need somewhere to run, to feel at home. 

 

Perhaps I ought to be more careful what I write - people might think it's true...

 

http://goonhavern.com/wp/category/goonhavern-district-history/

[Stubby47]

Trelothen is a small fishing port, with minimal other goods facilities and  modest passenger provision.

 

Mainly GWR / BR(W), from Par, with occasional SR / BR(S) short passenger trains from Padstow. 

 

 

 

A track plan, of sorts.

 

 

Split level, but not by much, probably only about 10 scale feet. FY to the left, line goes up to station, down to goods yard.

 

Lower level:

Small factory to the left, goods shed in the middle, fish shed top the right.  R/h goods yard headshunt encroaches onto road - will be extended to fish quay at a later date.

 

Upper level:

Carriage siding top left, possible parcels siding next to loco release.

 

 

 

It might change when I get to build it, another siding might be needed in the goods yard for operational interest.

[Mikkel]

I like it. Nicely balanced. I was wondering if the carriage siding top left needed a structure for further balance, but there will be a carriage or two to catch the eye, plus it's elevated - so no need I think. Maybe some trees s in the top left corner?

[Stubby47]

Thanks Mikkel and you are right about the trees top left, already planned with an unusual twist...

 

I'm trying not to make the two halves look totally different, so am thinking how to blend the transition between town and countryside. 

[St Enodoc]

6 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

the trees top left, already planned with an unusual twist...

Very Cornish.

[Stubby47]

4 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Very Cornish.

 

Well, yes.

 

Looking around the proposed area, there are trees in the valleys but none on the more exposed tops of the hills, so any I add will need to be small and compact. The backscene will be fun to do too, as it will be looking south towards Mawgan Porth and Newquay.

[Harlequin]

The level changes could be tricky. Do you know how they will work?

To help with the town vs. country thing, how about thinking of the layout as essentially all town, with greenery dotted around everywhere but with the buildings less dense on the left side and more room for greenery?

And how about having the quayside within this scene at the front so that the levels would rise up in terraces from 1. water, 2. quayside + goods yard, 3. passenger station, 4. Town. And then a more gradual grade up to windswept hillside in the corner?

You'll need Valerian growing out of every unattended nook and cranny, of course!