amdaley Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Is there a minimum radius recommended for this model ? I don't think I've seen it mentioned anywhere ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 One of the problems with producing scale model locomotives and coaches is trainset curves. There are probably many hundreds of modellers using them for convenience and space reasons, but they are undoubtedly holding the hobby back at this stage of the game. If everyone moved out a little and adopted something like 24" radius minimum, it would at least give manufacturers of RTR and kits a bit more leeway. Designing a Beyer-Garratt to negotiate trainset curves must have been a challenge to say the least. Coachmann is on the right track (pardon the pun, it was deliberate). The fact that most model locomotives will negotiate these curves is a wonder in itself. With a long articulated locomotive your asking for one power unit to curve one way and the other to do the opposite. In the real world there have been derailments where the transition (straight track) between two opposing curves wasn't long enough. In one case there were two derailments 12 months apart with the same type of vehicle, where the wagon was initially blamed. Then the penny dropped and it was realised that the track was non compliant. With these loco's you might need to have some 'route restrictions' ie routes where the loco doesn't go. Avoiding reverse curves etc. Don't expect the impossible from the loco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted April 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2014 I've cancelled my order too, purely for the fact that I won't have the time to run it and it's a big investment to have just sitting around in it's box. Interesting point.Another issue concerning me is that it does not take kindly to being "on and off" the track.Chris Leigh in his Model Rail review reckons that it's really best to keep it permanently on the rails as over handling exposes its fragility. A wrestle here between desire and common sense,I think ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I've returned four BGs to Hattons for QC issues of one type or another and my current engine is not perfect but acceptable providing I can get replacement steps and sanding pipework. The thing is they all derail on S bends consisting of a pair of Hornby R608s 3rd radius curves with a straight in between. The leading set of driving wheels derail both on my layout and on a test track I set up to see what's wrong. None of my other over eighty engines derail including fine scale and 10 coupled. Any ideas anyone? The fist thing is don't blame the loco, your trying to get a very long loco (the longest to run in the U.K.) to go around a curve of less that 24". Why not relay the reverse curve with a length of flex track and smooth out the curve? As you have mentioned you have to have a short section of straight track between the two curves. This loco is not like any other loco. The pivot points are not like a Diesel that are quit close together, nor a ten coupled loco that is quit short. The real thing would have been pushed to go around a 4 1/2 chain rad. curve (in 4mm approx. 48") and that would have been at dead slow. OzzyO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venetian Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Thanks for the suggestion chaps - but the short straight isn't that short so the engine is not bending both ways at once and my Kitmaster version running on Lima Crab underpinnings has no problem at all. The Kitmaster is very similar in dimensions to Hatton's version. I've investigated further and built a dummy centre boiler section thus avoiding the magnetic pivots of the original. It seems to cope well when pushed manually. Furthermore some of my curves are 4ft radius and two of the earlier engines suffered pony truck derailing on these long curves. I'll look at the back to back, but what is essentially a 2 6 0 shouldn't derail on 3rd radius - Hattons say they should cope with 2nd radius and have been very helpful - possibly the best customer service I have experienced in decades. If it is the back to back I don't fancy the job to say the least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted April 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 25, 2014 Interesting point.Another issue concerning me is that it does not take kindly to being "on and off" the track.Chris Leigh in his Model Rail review reckons that it's really best to keep it permanently on the rails as over handling exposes its fragility. A wrestle here between desire and common sense,I think ! .....just needs Peco to introduce a longer "loco lift" specifically for the Beyer Garratt (and, hopefully, for American Mallets etc,) My local modelshop advised that his Peco representative is aware of the need for a longer "loco lift" but at the moment the only solution offered was cobbling together (with difficulty) a longer lift using two of the current lifts..... Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Not photoshopped or weathered, just a B&W pic from my phone. N 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Hawkins Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 The latest batch of Beyer Garratt's have arrived at Hattons, just ordered 266205 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasslands Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Yes, my bank account has just depreciated. I think No.47967 is on the way. Happy, happy days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Envious. I am waiting for 266204. LMS 7983. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 ...the engine is not bending both ways at once and my Kitmaster version running on Lima Crab underpinnings has no problem at all. The Kitmaster is very similar in dimensions to Hatton's version. I've investigated further and built a dummy centre boiler section thus avoiding the magnetic pivots of the original. It seems to cope well when pushed manually... The track curvature is just one way it has to bend (yaw), there's pitch and roll to take into account also. The magnetic hinges are unlikely to significantly limit pitching, thanks to the leverage of the length of each engine unit; but they might limit the ability of one engine unit to roll with respect to another. Weakening the magnetic clamping might do it if the two engine units are trouble free with non-magnetic hinging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) I thought these recent releases were to be without pony wheel brakes?Must have misread it somewhere.Edit:- no I didn't Beyer Garratt 2-6-0 0-6-2 loco 47995 in BR number on cabsides with plain tanks, Revolving coal bunker and no pony wheel brake. 9/4/49 - 4/11/50. Lightly weathered. With 8-pin DCC socket and 2 motors. Edited April 29, 2014 by Free At Last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I thought these recent releases were to be without pony wheel brakes? Must have misread it somewhere. Edit:- no I didn't The bogie brakes were removed in early LMS days. Something has gone awry with anglo-chinese communication! Attention to detail is again failing Heljan, but lets hope the build/finish quality is better than the first batch Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Pony truck brakes should be the easiest thing to remove I would have thought with small knife or Stilsons! Edited April 29, 2014 by coachmann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted April 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 29, 2014 I though they arrived in the post already broken off! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold traction Posted April 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) .....just needs Peco to introduce a longer "loco lift" specifically for the Beyer Garratt (and, hopefully, for American Mallets etc,) My local modelshop advised that his Peco representative is aware of the need for a longer "loco lift" but at the moment the only solution offered was cobbling together (with difficulty) a longer lift using two of the current lifts..... Keith You could use the DCC concepts MPD lifts. http://www.ehattons.com/59749/DCC_Concepts_MPD_360_360mm_OO_gauge_loco_storage_box_drive_on_off/StockDetail.aspx http://www.digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/search/mpd360-motive-power-depot---small.aspx OK Very expensive, but if the loco is £199 whats £37.05 to keep it safe and be able to just drive it straight on/off the track? Thats the small one pictured in the links, might possibly need to go to the medium size, I'm sure hattons would see if it would fit though. Only a thought! Cheers Ian Edited April 29, 2014 by traction 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venetian Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I agree and proved it with the dummy boiler section. I suggested to Hatton's that rounding off the tops of the pivots may help but a simple ball and socket would suffice without the magnetics. I've relaid a section of my foam underlay track using a flat plate for reference to ensure that curves are aligned precisely with the plane of neighbouring sections of tracks. What I observed on curves was that the leading driving wheels tilted up slightly clear of the track and ran over the edge on curves. Although this also occurred to a degree on straights the wheels dropped back in place on straights. The need for precision is surprising and I would suggest that foam underlay is best avoided - but cork should be okay. Mind you my other Beyer Garratt and all the other engines including finescale rattle through without any such problems. My next problem is a section of track in a long tunnel behind a domestic water tank with little access.....!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Just had an email from Hattons to say 266211, which is a heavily weathered 47981 has been put back to a July delivery date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Hawkins Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 My second Beyer Garratt has just arrived, 266205 47967 BR Black with 'British Railways' lettering, no quality control issues with this excellent model this time, looking forward already to the next batch being released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Peter Beckett Posted April 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2014 I have just sent them an email requesting a change to Heljan 266205 Beyer Garratt 2-6-0 0-6-2 47967 (on cab) BR black with "BRITISH RAILWAYS" lettering 1948-49. Pristine condition as I can weather it my self and it will will still suit my layout as an earlier version. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Seems like the heavily weathered BR versions are coming in two or more batches as Hattons has advised me that my order for Heljan 266208 - heavily weathered BR 47996 now has a June delivery date. I've seen on the new releases on their site today, that three of the rotating bunker versions have arrived, one in LMS and 2 BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) My Heljan 266204 Heljan 266204 Beyer Garratt 2-6-0 0-6-2 7983 LMS revolving coal bunker 1938-48. Pristine is now June as well. Edited April 30, 2014 by amdaley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) double post Edited April 30, 2014 by amdaley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 amdaley, on 30 Apr 2014 - 14:06, said:My Heljan 266204 Beyer Garratt 2-6-0 0-6-2 7983 LMS revolving coal bunker 1938-48. Pristine is now June as well. I am waiting for the same model. With seven more versions still to come and stocks of more than ten still showing for the first two I hope they are selling well enough for the order to be completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbeagleowner Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'm sure it will - I imagine that the BR emblem ones are going to be the most popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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