Heljan Beyer garratt

[tetsudofan]

Oh shoot! Looks like I'm gonna be a few bob shorter. Well @ least Bachmann have a nice new LMS brake van to go with it - perhaps Hattons will throw it in for free!

BTW, what chips is anyone using?

 

 

I've fitted a Lenz 10231-01 Standard + decoder. Perfect fit inside the ashpan and loco runs smoothly especially down my 4% incline with 33 wagons and brakevan (length of my longest fiddle-yard siding!!) in tow.

 

Keith

[PRVideo]

All looks wonderful can't wait to get mine running...probably need to buy extra coal wagons !

[Tony Burgess]

For a non sound chip it will be a Lenz Gold, but I am hoping someone will produce a sound chip quite soon.

Putting sound on to this loco raises a few questions.  My understanding is that the loco uses two motors, right?

 

From what I've seen posted, provision is made for a chip in the ashpan.  Presumeably a single chip for both motors.  Current capacity?  Some have spoken of Heljan's motors as drawing higher currents than from other RTR manufacturers.

 

Were the two mogul setups connected as with Shay locos?  If they were the exhaust beats were presumeably always in sync, but if not - and given slight variations in tyre diameters, slippage etc - the beats would not always be in sync.  In this case, might not two sound decoders be in order?

 

So I'm looking forward to hearing how the Australian modellers have dealt with sound in their Garretts, and how UK modellers are planning to tackle this particular model!

 

Tony Burgess

[The Stationmaster]

Putting sound on to this loco raises a few questions.  My understanding is that the loco uses two motors, right?

 

From what I've seen posted, provision is made for a chip in the ashpan.  Presumeably a single chip for both motors.  Current capacity?  Some have spoken of Heljan's motors as drawing higher currents than from other RTR manufacturers.

 

Were the two mogul setups connected as with Shay locos?  If they were the exhaust beats were presumeably always in sync, but if not - and given slight variations in tyre diameters, slippage etc - the beats would not always be in sync.  In this case, might not two sound decoders be in order?

 

So I'm looking forward to hearing how the Australian modellers have dealt with sound in their Garretts, and how UK modellers are planning to tackle this particular model!

 

Tony Burgess

There has been some discussion on here before (in relation to videos of AD60s I seem ti recall) about the old chestnut of the two ends of a Garratt synchronising and the simple answer is that they didn't.  The two engine units could be in slightly different cut-off settings, the wheels could be slightly different diameters, one end could slip while the other didn't and so on.  Plus of course the engines were remote from the chimney by different distances so when working hard the exhaust became more of a continuous noise rather than distinct beats from either or both engines.

 

I doubt the LMS Garratts were ever worked as hard as the AD60s although obviously they must have had to do some work on rising gradients with trains of loaded wagons.  I don't know about the LMS but certainly from what I've been told of GW experience, plus my own involvement with freight ops in BR times the biggest problems with long trains wasn't pulling them but stopping them, and pulling couplings and/or drawbars (especially on rising gradients), as well as the looping problem on some routes (not so much on the quadruple track section of the Midland Main Line were the Slow Lines were largely goods lines).  Incidentally the Western 28XX were allowed 100 wagon loads east of Swindon.

[7013]

Why not a Lenz Standard+ or a Lenz Silver+.....?

 

Bob.

Because I can Bob, I normally use standard and Silver, but such a magnificent beast deserves better.

[61661]

Further to the earlier comments about haulage power of the Garratt, our review sample hauled a train of 100 short-wheelbase wagons easily. It also took 60 wagons from a standing start on a 1-in-30 incline, on a curve. The train was virtually nose to tail on the layout and keeping the lighter (less well behaved) wagons on the track was virtually impossible, but it proved a point. I couldn't even make the thing slip.

Just for comparison I tried a pair of Bachmann 4MT 2-6-0s on the same train and they couldn't even take up the slack of the 100 wagons. A pair of 9Fs (one DJH and one Bachmann) would take it easily enough but the real surprise was a Bachmann Class 37, which handled the train just as easily as the Garratt.

There will be some video footage of the Garratt at work on the next BRM digital edition if you want to see more.

Just to confirm, it does draw quite a lot of power from the track, so I'd recommend a decoder with a 2.0Amp maximum output.

[250BOB]

Because I can Bob, I normally use standard and Silver, but such a magnificent beast deserves better.

 

And why not indeed..!!!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Just for comparison I tried a pair of Bachmann 4MT 2-6-0s on the same train and they couldn't even take up the slack of the 100 wagons. A pair of 9Fs (one DJH and one Bachmann) would take it easily enough but the real surprise was a Bachmann Class 37, which handled the train just as easily as the Garratt...

If you want to have a grunt fest, why not run a comparitive test; I suspect that for its physical size, Heljan's Baby Deltic may surprise.

[Captain Kernow]

Looking at one of Andy's excellent photos, and considering that one or two folk seem to have had valve gear problems, I'm wondering if the example in Andy's picture was suffering from a droopy slidebar, and - if this was a common feature - whether this may have contributed to the valve gear dis-assembling itself?

 

 

[250BOB]

I can clearly see this model is proving very popular, would any one know approximately how many models are being produced of each of the 12 variants.? Or a grand total for that matter.?

[Rail-Online]

Looking at one of Andy's excellent photos, and considering that one or two folk seem to have had valve gear problems, I'm wondering if the example in Andy's picture was suffering from a droopy slidebar, and - if this was a common feature - whether this may have contributed to the valve gear dis-assembling itself?

 

Garratt2.jpg

The slidebars on both my Garratts were a very loose fit with the crossheads. There is noticeable slop in all of them, I would say about 0.75mm, a lot more than I would build into a kit I built! As you say it may be that Andy's is sloping down slightly, they are not terribly well anchored to the cylinder backs. I suspect they are just a push fit.

 

Just to report I sent my first Garratt back and received a replacement within 5 days -excellent service from Hattons. The replacement is much much better, the only fault that I can report (I will sort the droopy wires), is the lifting lugs are not fitted flat to either the coal bunker nor the water tank. This is one of those annoying visual things and appears common to all the production models.

 

One question for everyone - what is the slow running like once run-in?  Initially is is a bit 'cloggy' on mine and I am unable to give it a continuous run in 00 gauge.

 

Tony

[Stevelewis]

If you want to have a grunt fest, why not run a comparitive test; I suspect that for its physical size, Heljan's Baby Deltic may surprise.

And   Bachmann's  Cl 37  ( and  poss 10000 not  tried  it  yet!)

 

A friend  got his  Bachmann  4f pulling 60,  but ran out of space & wagons apparently

[Stevelewis]

Reading  the  reprts so  far  on the  Garratt,  and  I appreciate  that  it is very  likely  that  there  are  far  more perfectly acceptable locos which have been delivered, as  it  is a fact  that  we are  much more likely  to hear about  the ones with issues.

 

I am  waiting  the  arrival  of BR vesrsions, but must  admit  that  I have considered, after reading of some of the  issues whether  I really need one!

 

I appreciate  that it is  a woderful looking  loco  and  definately  at a  Bargain price, if  its price  is compared , with other European manufacturers steam loco prices.

[Tony_S]

 I think I should be planning an extra long fiddle yard track before my BR version is despatched.

[Accurascale Fran]

If you want to have a grunt fest, why not run a comparitive test; I suspect that for its physical size, Heljan's Baby Deltic may surprise.

Plenty of grunt in a Baby Deltic. There are some steep inclines on this layout and I reckon she could've pulled more

 

[JZ]

Looking forward to mine with mixed feelings. Wanted a Garrett since seeing a Kitmaster one in a shop window way back in the early 1960s. When I ordered mine it was the intention that it would just see occasional outings, but after reading the reviews I feel I would like to see it realise it's potential. So as I don't have the space for two OO layouts, well not large ones anyway, it looks like Tolmouth will be consigned to history and something more suitable will arise. As Captain Kernow as described how one was 'nicked' by the S&DJR ( )it looks like Binegar could be a good option.

[Nelson Jackson]

Double header anyone?

Not my vid

The pulling power is just amazing, can't wait for the BR versions.

Edited March 15, 2014 by Nelson Jackson

[cctransuk]

.... Harold Morris, the Bath Green Park shedmaster got his hands on one, that one of his footplate crews had inadvertently brought back from Gloucester one day (well, it was very strong cider...).

 

Egged on by Ivan Petersfield and Norman Locksmith, Harold used it for a couple of weeks over the Dorset, working heavy goods trains down to Templecombe and back. He nearly lost it back to the LMR one day, though, when the northbound working was diverted via Engine Wood and Hallatrow...   

 

He did later manage to get one for a longer stint, though.

 

It's not generally known that, contrary to most references, 47994 was not withdrawn on 14/03/1958.

 

As the last of the ex-LMS Garratts was no longer required for coal traffic, it occurred to Harold Morris that it would be ideal for banking the summer holiday trains from Evercreech Junction.

 

The lone survivor served in this role until the end of the 1961 summer timetable but, unfortunately, Ivo Peters singularly failed to record its exploits.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

(Well - that's my story, anyway)!

[toboldlygo]

Double header anyone?

The pulling power is just amazing, can't wait for the BR versions.

 

Now that's just showing off lol

[7013]

I think with the sound it is probably not worth getting too hung up on the synchronisation etc. I would just like a sound chip that gives at least a representation of this LMS loco. Presumably it will have to be an 8F sound or something similar?

[Ian Hargrave]

I think with the sound it is probably not worth getting too hung up on the synchronisation etc. I would just like a sound chip that gives at least a representation of this LMS loco. Presumably it will have to be an 8F sound or something similar?

Which one of us could give a considered opinion on the"authentic"sound of it in any case? I am well past my sell-by date and was around at the time but never saw one.

[250BOB]

Which one of us could give a considered opinion on the"authentic"sound of it in any case? I am well past my sell-by date and was around at the time but never saw one.

 

I was about 9 when the last one went..............dont know if I saw one or not either.....its possible, but unlikely as a Crewe lad........spotting properly didnt kick until I went to the Grammar school aged about 11/12.

[7013]

I too was very young when the last ones went. I guess any sound chip is going to be precisely that.... An educated guess.

[robmcg]

I too was very young when the last ones went. I guess any sound chip is going to be precisely that.... An educated guess.

 

Think of two 4Fs slightly out of rhythm, or any double-header, except all the noise emanating from one smokebox ? 

[Ian Hargrave]

Everybody loves the sound of a train in the distance....everybody thinks it's true....