Chassis building jigs

[The Fatadder]

One of the things that is on my 'to buy' list for scaleforum is a set of jigs to aid with steam loco chassis building.

 

Only problem is that I have no idea what the options are, with the exception of the chassis² jig (which at almost £200 is too much to justify given the countless other things I am supposed to be saving for)

 

I'm only going to be building small locos (currently the list of chassis to build will be High Level 14xx/collet goods/dean goods and Comet 45xx and 43xx

This will be spread over the next few years, to spread the cost.

 

I see on the Avonside website they do a 'lite' version of the jig suitable for 3 axles for £70 which while still a lot more than I was hoping to be paying, could be an option. Only thing is I cant see (no of axles aside) what the difference is between it and its big brother.

 

Other than a wheel press (that is also on my shopping list), are there any other tools that would be useful to have for chassis building that might not be in the typical model tool kit?

[craigwelsh]

Have you got a 3-4mm 5 sides broach, you'll need it just to fettle axleboxes.

[brossard]

Not sure how advanced you are but my advice as a first step is to obtain Iain Rice's Etched Chassis Construction from Wild Swan. He provides great advice and the book is a delight to read as well. In fact you might want to check the Wild Swan series of books because they cover a wide range of topics (authors include Barry Norman(landscape), Guy Williams(locos), Geoff Kent(wagons), Geoff Taylor(buildings), Rice(also track and layouts) and others). British Railway Books stock the range and are good to deal with.

 

Another source is the marvellous range of DVDs from British Railway Modelling. Very good value. Most videos are hosted by Tony Wright but also feature the likes of Nigel Burkin(DCC), Geoff Taylor, Norman Solomon(track) and Barry Norman.

 

John

[Kenton]

If £70 is expensive then you are priced out of the all singing and dancing chassis jigs (for the professional or rich modeller) and really have to go with the old fashioned tried and trusted methods. This usually mean long steel axles 12" long or more, graph paper and a flat mirror along with axle spacer jigs from LRM. There is nothing wrong with these alternatives and it is very satisfying to use them to build a good chassis. Many do

 

Otherwise it is a grit your teeth and save up for an Avonside or better.

[Weekday Cross]

Comet Models do some very basic but useful chassis assembly jigs - in OO, EM and P4

 

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/modules/viewcatpic.php/3/849

 

For relatively simple chassis they may be enough to ensure proper alignment, though slightly more difficult for sprung or compensated chassis.

[brossard]

For relatively simple chassis they may be enough to ensure proper alignment, though slightly more difficult for sprung or compensated chassis.

 

Actually, I find conpensation to be easier than rigid chassis. I have tried the Alan Gibson springing design - an unmitigated disaster.

 

John

[craigwelsh]

The Comet jigs are no good for setting up a compensated or sprung chassis, they just do frame alignment. Its the London Road tapered jigs that can setup hornguides for springing/compensation on the cheap based on the coupling rods though i'd really recommend saving up the the Avonside jig, having seen it in use it gives you a massive boost to possible accuracy.

 

I wouldn't bother with the Iain Rice book though I don't like his writing in general tbh.

 

I can't remember what else you don't get in the cheap chassis jig but i'd suggest watching the videos as a guide to how the jig is used in general

[Captain Kernow]

Perseverence did a basic jig, not much more than some 1/8" steel with stepped ends, some threaded bolts to hold the frames together and springs to keep the hornguides in place. It can be a bit tricky to set up if you're not used to it, but I've built many compensated chassis successfully using it.

 

I bought one of the Hobby Holidays jigs before the Avonside one was announced. I think the Avonside has the edge on the HH one, but having bought it, I'm going to make the most of it. Given a choice, however, if you can save up, I'd definitely endorse the Avonside one.

 

If you've never built any steam loco chassis before, then it can't do any harm to read the writings of Iain Rice, you can then decide for yourself whether you like his style or not.

[brossard]

If you've never built any steam loco chassis before, then it can't do any harm to read the writings of Iain Rice, you can then decide for yourself whether you like his style or not.

 

My sentiments exactly Cap'n. You can love or hate Rice but he's been around a long time and knows a thing or two (maybe not three). For my first chassis (the ubiquitous GWR pannier) I followed Rice very closely and got a smooth running compensated chassis first time. The other thing with the book is that we get a dissertation on tools, jigs and, very importantly, soldering. Whether laying/building track, constructing wagons or locos or designing layouts, see what the experts have done and then decide what's for you and what's not.

 

John

[John_Hughes]

I use both the Hobby Holidays one and - for checking in belts-and-braces style - the Percy jigs as well, just to make sure everything's spot on; I've also got a couple of long pieces of 1/8" rod to make sure everything looks square as well.

 

But for what you're building you may be able to do without anything more than the Percy or equivalent 'extended axles', though for an uncompensated chassis the Comet jigs are very handy to get things nice and square, which is the first and absolute requirement. Most modern kits go together pretty well if you take your time with them - very different from some of the old stagers I could name!

 

Start with the 14xx - it's a darned sight easier to get two axles working together smoothly than three if you're just starting out! Decapods are for masochists only!

[Kenton]

Make your own mind upon Ian Rice's style - my view is the books show you how it was done well back in the 1970's - kits (some at least) have improved considerably since then. Some kits, to be perfectly honest really don't need any fancy jigs as the frames and their spacers have been so well designed that the rods and graph paper really is enough to start with.

 

I think these "professional" jigs can take away some of the fun - and much of the understanding - from kit building. They really are for the very serious kit builders though where time is money or a kit is required/promised for an exhibition next week.

[billbedford]

'Corse there are Frames kits around that don't need expensive jigs and stuff, cos they are inherently self-jigging.

[barrowroad]

One of the things that is on my 'to buy' list for scaleforum is a set of jigs to aid with steam loco chassis building.

 

Only problem is that I have no idea what the options are, with the exception of the chassis² jig (which at almost £200 is too much to justify given the countless other things I am supposed to be saving for)

 

I'm only going to be building small locos (currently the list of chassis to build will be High Level 14xx/collet goods/dean goods and Comet 45xx and 43xx

This will be spread over the next few years, to spread the cost.

 

I see on the Avonside website they do a 'lite' version of the jig suitable for 3 axles for £70 which while still a lot more than I was hoping to be paying, could be an option. Only thing is I cant see (no of axles aside) what the difference is between it and its big brother.

 

 

Hi Rich,

 

The lite version of the Avonside Jig is £170 rather than the £70 you mention - the difference is it has three blocks and sets of pins rather than five. It can be upgraded later if required.

There is now an Ultralite version at £80 which consists of just the chassis; three blocks and 3 1/8in long pins - this can also be upgraded later.

 

See page 2 of the Avonside Price list for specifications

http://www.avonsideworks.com/assets/CHASSIS2_Pricelist.pdf

 

Robin

[Jol Wilkinson]

Some modellers swear by the Hobby Holidays or Avonside style of chassis jig. I think that they might have advantages for rigid chassis locos, to get the fixed bearings accurately aligned. The Hobby Holidays version also has the facility for a rolling road option. Having looked at both and read the various reviews, I would choose the Hobby Holidays jig.

 

However, I build P4 gauge locos and have always found the Perseverance (no longer available) or London Road Models taper end alignment jigs are all I need for compensated chassis, from four coupled to 0-8-0s.

[Horsetan]

If £70 is expensive then you are priced out of the all singing and dancing chassis jigs (for the professional or rich modeller) and really have to go with the old fashioned tried and trusted methods. This usually mean long steel axles 12" long or more, graph paper and a flat mirror along with axle spacer jigs from LRM. There is nothing wrong with these alternatives and it is very satisfying to use them to build a good chassis. Many do....

 

....and a bit of plate glass as a base helps.

[Kenton]

 

....and a bit of plate glass as a base helps.

 

That would be the "flat mirror" I mentioned then ;)

[Horsetan]

That would be the "flat mirror" I mentioned then ;)

Glass, mirror, whatever.

[Buhar]

I managed to miss MRJ 217 as I was on holiday which contained a comparison of the jigs available. I intend to buy one when I'm at Warley and hopefully will find a back issue, sit in a corner and see what the conclusion is.

 

I've read the reviews of the Avonside jig (BRM and MRJ 191) and watched the videos but cannot find anything comparable covering the Hobby Holidays one.

 

At the moment the fact that I have some detail on Avonside's (and also have a rolling road) prods me towards that one, but are there advocates of the Hobby Holidays version with a different view?

 

Is there a third competitor? By this I don't mean plate glass, rods and graph paper. Been there and have the wonky results to prove it.

[John_Hughes]

Well, I have the Hobby Holidays one and am very happy with it.

 

At Scaleforum a couple of years ago I watched someone who actually had both, and in terms of accuracy I doubt if there's anything between them.

 

Both systems rely on the jig-axles sticking out (or up!) unsupported for some distance, which strikes me as dubious engineering practice so I always make doubly sure by checking them with the digital caliper before actually setting up the chassis, but I've never found more than a tiny fraction of a mm error over the length of the pieces so that's probably unnecessary and typical of my mindset rather than anything else.

 

I like to have the workpiece in the same plane as it will be when complete, which the HH jig does and the other does not, but that's just a question of personal preferences. But remember - any jig helps accuracy, but unless used carefully it won't ensure it - it's still possible to have the frame pieces slightly twisted along their length, for instance - so sense and care are still needed.

[Coombe Barton]

Is there any updated advice about this a year or so on from the last contributions?

[Bruciethefish]

I'm afraid I look at these complex gadgets & just think what a palaver is involved in merely setting them up... Whenever I need a jig, I used 2 lengths of half-inch or so planed square hardwood, screwed to an offcut of laminated board, set to the outside measurement of the frames + bearings. Parallel lines are marked across these with a set-square, & I keep some lengths of 1/8" silver steel rod to run through the bearings. If building compensated or sprung chassis, I set up the frames first, then once tacked together set the bearings / hornblocks up with Perseverance jig axles.  Old style Hamblings, or Romford extended axles can be used to similar effect, & the ends can be ground to a taper to suit various sized crankpin holes in the rods. 

When setting up hornguides, always start at one end & set the axles up in pairs to ensure correct spacing...

[Kenton]

I keep looking at them - But still conclude that they are an overpriced bit of kit for what they do. As a must have item on the WB they are not and you need to build an awful lot of kits chassis (and the more difficult ones P4/S7) to make enough to pay for one. They are far from an essential tool.

 

However, what little I have seen of them in use they do the business more than adequately and no doubt save some of the anguish and X words. But using them on a fixed chassis or 0-4-0 or even 0-6-0 standard chassis (the vast majority of builds for me) the money can be better spent. But given a windfall or good day at the races/expo then I could be tempted - probably just need more convincing.

[Horsetan]

..... given a windfall or good day at the races/expo then I could be tempted - probably just need more convincing.

You'd be convinced if someone bought one for you as a present!

[Kenton]

 

You'd be convinced if someone bought one for you as a present!

Oh yes :yes: (are you offering?) I'd also accept the offer of one in (part) payment ... but then who wouldn't? It is all about justifying the expense (in business terms the cost from any small profit or number of hours lost to own one) or in hobby terms - (how many other kits could I buy, or can I get it inside without the controller noticing?)

 

Till then it is simply a toy to show off a bit like owning a Ferrari or Porche (looks good on the drive, but a waste of space parked in Tesco's car park)