Production HSTs - 35 Years Young

[Lochnagar]

A classic !!! My favourite liveries are BR Blue and both of the Intercity liveries.

 

Now who has all 21 liveries in model form

 

I have 12. .

[43179]

would be rude not to post in this thread given my forum ID

 

How many 'power car' forum members are there on here?

 

 

tfn

 

43179

[newbryford]

That antenna's quite interesting. I wonder if it's a mobile phone one. Funny that it also seems to have an air conditioning unit stuck to it.

 

O/T - Looks like a NRN-GSM mast. I presume it only has the one antenna as it's next to a tunnel. First one I've seen with a lattice mast - all the ones near me are tubular.

 

Back on topic. The best thing about the HST was the Mk3. I never had too much chance to ride on the ECML or GWML, other than a couple of all-line rovers, but at least I could sample the Mk3 on the WCML. Comfy seats and a table all the way!

 

 

 

The best thing BR ever did.

 

Although the HST was an ideal quick fix as an alternative to the APT project at the time, it successfully caused the delay of mainline elctrification on the ECML and GWML.

 

But that doesn't stop me wanting to hear another Valenta on full chat!

 

Cheers,

Mick

[jamie92208]

 

O/T - Looks like a NRN-GSM mast. I presume it only has the one antenna as it's next to a tunnel. First one I've seen with a lattice mast - all the ones near me are tubular.

 

Back on topic. The best thing about the HST was the Mk3. I never had too much chance to ride on the ECML or GWML, other than a couple of all-line rovers, but at least I could sample the Mk3 on the WCML. Comfy seats and a table all the way!

 

 

 

 

 

But that doesn't stop me wanting to hear another Valenta on full chat!

 

Cheers,

Mick

Yes, Leicester was a great place to listen as they set off north. The scream of a Valenta was a joy to listen to, The line into Wakefield Westgate passes right at the back of the Wakefield clubrooms and I miss hearing the Valenta on the rear power cars as the Midland main Line sets cme through on an evening while we were modelling. The MTU's don't have the smae sound of raw power.

 

Jamie

[Peter Kazmierczak]

would be rude not to post in this thread given my forum ID

 

How many 'power car' forum members are there on here?

tfn

43179

 

And here's one of said power car (and driver) at Exeter.

 

Regards,

Peter

[The Stationmaster]

I may be wrong, but I think the HST's may still be the fastest diesel powered trains in the world (I've heard of speeds in the region of 150ish mph)

Alas you're wrong - having been involved with several efforts which needed us to try to make them go faster the technical advice was that with the restriction imposed by the governors taken off the best the production trains could theoretically achieve on engine power was in the region of 130mph (128 being readily achievable ) but you then have the problem of being able to stop. The minimum number of trailers you can run with to achieve normal braking distances is 5 (which is why the 'Top Of The Pops' train ran in that formation and even then 'special arrangements' had to be made to deal with certain 'under-braked' signals).

 

However I've an idea that the prototype train did 143mph on test which was a diesel powered world record at the time.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

As Mike rightly says, the HST did hold the world record for a diesel train for many years. Wiki (with usual cavaets) gives some details.

 

The speedo in the cab of the power cars is graduated up to 140mph.

 

Regards,

Peter

[vac_basher]

O/T - Looks like a NRN-GSM mast. I presume it only has the one antenna as it's next to a tunnel. First one I've seen with a lattice mast - all the ones near me are tubular.

Thanks Mick for feading my curiosaty. Shame Peter's photo was out of my time frame otherwise that mast would have been a really interesting modelling project.

 

Alas you're wrong

As Mike Rightly says....

Fair enough Infact I did initially doubt if my claim was correct, so thanks for putting that right.

 

 

In 2001, the highest mileage power car was virgin trains 43008, which had clocked 8 million miles. That was in 25 years of service. 10 years on, using those figures as a base, i hazard a guess in the region of 14 million for 43008.

Wow! That's just under 1100 miles per day, everyday for the past 35 years.

14million miles is inconcievable to me, but in this context it means that the distance I travel in my car in a month = what a HST would do everyday. or, roughly Bristol to Inverness and back!

Amazing (from an enginering point of view) when you think about it!

[45125]

Alas you're wrong - having been involved with several efforts which needed us to try to make them go faster the technical advice was that with the restriction imposed by the governors taken off the best the production trains could theoretically achieve on engine power was in the region of 130mph (128 being readily achievable ) but you then have the problem of being able to stop. The minimum number of trailers you can run with to achieve normal braking distances is 5 (which is why the 'Top Of The Pops' train ran in that formation and even then 'special arrangements' had to be made to deal with certain 'under-braked' signals).

 

However I've an idea that the prototype train did 143mph on test which was a diesel powered world record at the time.

Hi there,

 

Some tests were done by the Eastern Region using a group of power cars including 43102, 43155, 43158. At least 43102 and 43158 (if memory serves me) achived in he region of 154mph on a short test rake north of York. These power cars all had the 132mph speed limiter diconnected for these tests.

 

The TDM fitted power cars could get up to 140 when Cross Country had them(if you had a pair), as for some reason the speed limiter never seemmed to function correctly on these power cars.

 

Regards

Al Taylor

['CHARD]

would be rude not to post in this thread given my forum ID

 

How many 'power car' forum members are there on here?

 

 

43179

 

Well judging by the members list, there are 7 contenders. That's not to say they didn't randomly choose the number or indeed selected it after a favourite Ivatt design.

 

Nonetheless, take a bow (in appropriate Modern Railways style): 43009/78/87/110/33/72/9.

[vac_basher]

45125 Thanks for the defence!

[newbryford]

Hi there,

 

Some tests were done by the Eastern Region using a group of power cars including 43102, 43155, 43158. At least 43102 and 43158 (if memory serves me) achived in he region of 154mph on a short test rake north of York. These power cars all had the 132mph speed limiter diconnected for these tests.

 

 

ISTR reading in Modern Railways that the power cars chosen all had newish wheelsets and as such were at or near maximum diameter, thus enabling a higher speed for a given motor rpm. High motor speeds could cause problems with the winding and banding around the armature.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[The Stationmaster]

Hi there,

 

Some tests were done by the Eastern Region using a group of power cars including 43102, 43155, 43158. At least 43102 and 43158 (if memory serves me) achived in he region of 154mph on a short test rake north of York. These power cars all had the 132mph speed limiter diconnected for these tests.

 

The TDM fitted power cars could get up to 140 when Cross Country had them(if you had a pair), as for some reason the speed limiter never seemmed to function correctly on these power cars.

 

Regards

Al Taylor

I sincerely hope they made some very special arrangements about where they ran 'em as at that speed (if they really could achieve it?) there was no way on earth they could stop on sighting adverse signals

[woodenhead]

And where on the UK network at that time was there 140mph line speed capability - I thought the only bit of 140 running was on the southern ECML using the flashing greens and that was under BR IIRC.

[The Stationmaster]

And where on the UK network at that time was there 140mph line speed capability - I thought the only bit of 140 running was on the southern ECML using the flashing greens and that was under BR IIRC.

And it was never passed for everyday use although some of the work was done and the flashing green aspects could be seen.

[hmrspaul]

Thanks Mick for feading my curiosaty. Shame Peter's photo was out of my time frame otherwise that mast would have been a really interesting modelling project.

 

 

 

Fair enough Infact I did initially doubt if my claim was correct, so thanks for putting that right.

 

 

Wow! That's just under 1100 miles per day, everyday for the past 35 years.

14million miles is inconcievable to me, but in this context it means that the distance I travel in my car in a month = what a HST would do everyday. or, roughly Bristol to Inverness and back!

Amazing (from an enginering point of view) when you think about it!

IIRC (and I may not!) there was a magazine article some years ago in BR days about a 24 hour diagram for sets based in London which did KX to Aberdeen and return and then KX to Leeds and return, something like 2400 miles for the days work. Apologies if I am misremembering but I think this was the case.

 

I must admit it was the dreadful state of the inside of some of the sets on the ECML which made me question the totally misplaced praise heaped on GNER by the likes of Rail magazine. Seat sides were broken, the cushions were loose and they were generally dreadful (as well as the Victorian inspired brown finish). Refurbishing was years too late for a railway company that managed to charge some of the highest prices in the country.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Kevin Daniel has kindly supplied me with the actual date when 2 diagrams started operating between Padd, Bristol and Weston-S-M. It was 9th August 1976.

The photo I took of 43002 that begins this thread was taken on 10th August, so I was just one day out.

 

Regards,

Peter

[multiprinter]

The annual mileage was around 250,000.

Maximum daily mileages of up to 1160 or so miles were diagrammed - Kings X to Aberdeen and back for example.This mileage was close (Sometimes too close) to the realistic maximum without re-fuelling.

[EddieB]

Not forgetting the HST "clone", introduced in 1982 by the State Railway Authority of New South Wales, the XPT. As the following picture shows, the carriages owed more to Budd than to British Rail, but the power cars had Paxman Valenta engines and Brush traction equipment in a bodtyshell built under licence by Commonwealth Engineeering (Comeng). Like "our" HSTs, they have now been re-engined, but continue to give great service.

 

Why I neglected to duplicate this shot in colour remains a mystery.

 

[Coldgunner]

Be interesting in a few years seeing full HST sets running up and down preserved lines

[Geoff Endacott]

Be interesting in a few years seeing full HST sets running up and down preserved lines

It has already happened on the West Somerset Railway.

 

Geoff Endacott

[vac_basher]

Be interesting in a few years seeing full HST sets running up and down preserved lines

At 25mph (maximum speed permited on heritage railways)

[Coldgunner]

...and the eventual complaints about lack of FGW liveried units and the trend towards IC Swallow

[keefer]

the fact that the HST is still running in everyday service is testament to the development of the BR engineers back in the day. it was required on a fairly short timescale as a stop-gap before the APT entered service and yet it delivered new levels of performance, speed, comfort etc., BT10 bogies, the concept of intensive diagrams of fixed rake stock, completely modular bodyshell etc etc and eventually lead to the appearance of mk3 loco-hauled stock (although limited to 110mph, even though capable of 125mph)

 

a lot of folk mention whether the HST is 'fastest' - a big advance on some services was not just the max. speed, but being able to get up to linespeed as quick as possible. e.g. from edinburgh northwards maximum speeds are irrelevant, what really counts is the power to speed up quickly from station stops/speed restrictions

 

mentioned above are power cars unlimited up to 140mph - i'm not sure, but are these not the ones used during the initial introduction of the 91s? they served as driving trailers providing ETS only until it was realised that their exhausts would catch fire if they were only ever idling, hence the decision to make them work in multiple with the 91s - 6000hp + 2250 hp = bloody hell! hahaha

[Trainshed Terry]

At 25mph (maximum speed permited on heritage railways)

 

That will kill the engines and clog the turbo charges up

 

Terry