Hornby corroded class 31 chassis

[KalKat]

Woefully off topic Iknow .... but.........

 

Changing the bushes in the suspension would help 'reconnect' to the steering and generally checking as Derek said for blocked vents.  Yes headlights can seem a little narrow in their reach ... get some contemporary driving lamps perhaps?  My Mini has 4 Cibies in addition to H4 lamp upgrade

[Nile_Griffith]

No offence, but I didn't read all that.

 

1984 Cavalier heating worked very well, ISTR. Perhaps checking the demister matrix isn't blocked with 30 years of mouldy leaves?

 

As for the instrument illumination- if you can't see a 1984 dashboard properly at night, well you know the advert for Specsavers.

 

Brakes: sorry chum, but the most common reasons for cars of that era having poor brakes is aged components- usually the seals in the master cylinder or the brake servo.

 

A 1984 car is less sophisticated than a 2015 version, quite clearly. But these feigned indignation "and the way we peasants used to suffer" in the 1980's is a load of trot.

 

I have a number of cars of various ages, makes and spec- from an elderly Rover to a early 90s Cavalier, via a few French imports to a 10 year old Jag and a 2 year old Jag. Clearly a 2013 XK is going to be a nicer drive than a 1990 Cavalier, but I do not recognise your description of them as effectively death traps on wheels.

 

 

The car had been previously owned by a Vauxhall enthusiast, who with great pride presented me with a whole box file full of receipts and such like to highlight the amount of work he had put into the car in the eight years that he owned it. As stated it is a really nice example of the car. The fact I owned it nearly thirty years ago and it still looks as good makes me smile now.

 

Now I'm not describing it as a death trap. I had the car fully checked out by my tame grease monkey mate. Who, it has to be said is quite fastidious about such things and he has confirmed to me that the shopping list of replacement parts and servicing suggested by the sheaf of receipts all checks out. But what I am saying is this. Placed against my 2011 Audi A4 my 1983 (I bought it in 85) Vauxhall Cavalier Sri does show its limitations. The Cavalier stops pretty much as it should have back in 83, however if you are asking me which car I'd rather throw the anchors out in, t's going to be the Audi. Similarly on the 83 Cavalier there is no play in the track rod ends, roll bar bushes and suspension are all pretty much on the money. But ask me which one feels better round the bends and offers me a better degree of feedback then its the Rhine wagen.

 

I'll go back to my post and repeat what I said. Back then that 83 Cavalier was like a rocket ship in comparison to my old man's Morris Minor. I loved it!!! Thats the whole reason I bought it back when I saw that it was available, because I loved owning that car in the first place. But the realisation is, that it is now a nostalgia piece. For sunny Sundays and reliving a bit of my youth.......... as well as keeping spotlessly clean. I don't actually doubt that it would get me down to London and back should I want or need it to.  When I owned the car originally it got me all over the country..... Most of the time. But as a driving experience would I choose it over the Audi? No. 

[Derekstuart]

But you aren't really comparing like for like.

 

You would be better comparing your A4 to a 1983 Audi 100. Or your 83 Cav to a 2015 Insignia.

 

But regardless, there's no disputing that in most cases, technological advancement is a GOOD thing. In MOST cases. But not all. If it was in ALL cases then this thread wouldn't have existed.

[Nile_Griffith]

But you aren't really comparing like for like.

 

You would be better comparing your A4 to a 1983 Audi 100. Or your 83 Cav to a 2015 Insignia.

 

But regardless, there's no disputing that in most cases, technological advancement is a GOOD thing. In MOST cases. But not all. If it was in ALL cases then this thread wouldn't have existed.

 

 

Yes the Insignia. My younger Brother has one....... and most of the time we are comparing it to the Audi..... let alone my old Cavalier. He's got the estate version, with the plastic back door.

 

Quite agree with you on your comment about advancement. I'm also very much a believer in the thought that just because we can doesn't always mean that we should.

[mikesndbs]

While I loved my MK2 Cav what the heck has the above got to do with this thread? Come on please.

[newbryford]

Yes, that's the problem - it's batch production , so you have to wait until they are making the 31 chassis.

And of course it needs to be compatible in terms of cowls etc.

 

 

I thought the buffer beam cowls were just stuck on? arent all the basic castings the same?

 

 

Only difference in the castings is between the sound equipped and non sound equipped models, the cowlings were just stuck on......but i suspect they will also have to supplied specially as well since i doubt the old ones come off the chassis at all in one piece.

 

I think your find Hornby will produce a complete motorised chassis specifically for the returned models and then just discard the old ones. However a small number of sellers seem to be picking up a lot damaged chassis quite often on ebay and selling them as spare parts...

 

The chassis castings for cowled and non-cowled are different.

 

The non-cowled version has the framing behind the buffer beam as part of the casting.

The cowled version has no detail and is simply a flat casting with the moulded plastic cowling screwed on.

 

Having just checked both chassis types - I've just found my "spare " D5512 (catalogue R2420) has suffered the usual fate... Oh dear!

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited February 10, 2015 by newbryford

[thaddeus]

The chassis castings for cowled and non-cowled are different.

Thanks for that, I was not sure. I suppose a non cowled version could be made to fit the cowls? with the aid a of a file if neccessary? its just that I bought a basket case 270 cheap in the vain hope of getting a new block (long term project - very long term project) Speaking of such, does anyone have a spare pair of cowls they dont need, colour unimportant, the bufferbeams from my 31 werent included in the bag of parts.

[rob D2]

It's abit of a minefield - I have a requirement for more blue ones now and this week one of the ' 31111' variety went for over £100 on eBay.

the thing to watch for is not only the chassis, but the screw columns in the body become brittle and break off when the screws are loosened or titened.

 

You would have thought a bog standard BR blue 31 would be in production for ever, but ewhen was the last version actually produced ? 2008 ish ?

From memory we have 31270 ( original, flawed ), 31174 ( revised body with strap, some iffy chassis), 31111, 31165 ,31268, the last three being fine

Edited February 11, 2015 by rob D2

[thaddeus]

I know the feeling, I've been trying to get a decent honest blue 31 for three years now. Even some of the supposedly good 2nd batch ones you see have had their chassis changed for earlier dodgy ones, often without the knowledge of the previous owner ~it was the chassis fairy, honest~

[mikesndbs]

OK so here is the update, considering it's taken so long I am double  with them.

 

After much pressing for a tiny update a lady called here today while I was at work and said that my 31 was too far gone so they would do me the massive favour of ending it back to me and would send me £100 to 'buy another train'

Is that all they think I am worth?

 

This was robustly rejected by my new wife and she was told that I would have to speak with a Mr Mark Lodge.

 

In a email to him I have explained that this is totally unacceptable.

The 31 has not worn out and nowhere does it say that Hornby locomotives sold for collectors and runners alike will only last 7 years before needing to be thrown out. If they are going to say that I would imagine the bottom would fall out of the market for them.

This is a known manufacturing fault and I am entitled to be put back as I was or compensated to the tune of replacing the loco.

As R3262 is on the books at £163 that is what I need minimum, however I still make the point that I want my original loco back with new chassis

 

Deeply fed up with this result to be honest and will not be letting it lay at that.

 

Will update once I have a reply gutted

 

[Derekstuart]

Mike, I know the 31 has sentimental value to you, so can I suggest the first course of action would be to get at least the body back? Once you have that safely in your custody then you can go on the warpath against Hornby.

 

I would suggest that it is not reasonable to expect it to last only 7 years- especially when there's a clearly serious case of manufacturing defects. If this was a one-off I think you'd probably not have so much of a leg to stand on (in law you would be entitled to compensation to the value of a replacement LESS the use and enjoyment you have had thus far- and it would be for you to demonstrate that you have not had as much as is reasonably expected of it.)

I will send you a PM with a couple of points if it helps. I know what I would do...

[DropTheTap]

 

This is a known manufacturing fault and I am entitled to be put back as I was or compensated to the tune of replacing the loco.

 

As R3262 is on the books at £163 that is what I need minimum, however I still make the point that I want my original loco back with new chassis

 

 

I don't quite understand. I paid less than 100 new for my defective 31 years ago, yet was quite happy to have been offered that in compensation. Surely they should either provide a replacement (non- defective) chassis, or compensate the amount you paid for the model (I would have been happy with either). Why would they offer market value of the model as it stands today? These chassis defects haven't been widely available on new models for quite some time.

 

Ordinarily when we as consumers replace defective items, we are required to provide receipts etc. and we're compensated to the value on the receipt. Hornby aren't insisting on these for practical reasons, so I think what they're offering and how they're offering it is quite fair to be honest.

Edited February 13, 2015 by DropTheTap

[DropTheTap]

It's abit of a minefield - I have a requirement for more blue ones now and this week one of the ' 31111' variety went for over £100 on eBay.

the thing to watch for is not only the chassis, but the screw columns in the body become brittle and break off when the screws are loosened or titened.

 

You would have thought a bog standard BR blue 31 would be in production for ever, but ewhen was the last version actually produced ? 2008 ish ?

From memory we have 31270 ( original, flawed ), 31174 ( revised body with strap, some iffy chassis), 31111, 31165 ,31268, the last three being fine

 

There's the "railroad" version!

 

Seriously, I don't understand this either. Just a plain old BR blue refurb. or unrefurb. would go down just fine and was a most common "latter day" livery. Hornby have a couple of livery headscratchers in their catalogue: they don't seem to like many blue 08s either...

[rob D2]

Mike,

Did they give you the option of waiting until they have some chassis available ? That's got to be the only solution as the 100 quid won't cover one in any colour.

 

 

This is why I'd really like to see another manufacturer take on making a 31. I don't understand why the boys in blue aren't considering it.

[mikesndbs]

I'll try and explain why I feel Hornby have let me down in this case then.

In the past they have bent over backwards to help!

Example, 9F always been fine, found it would not run, they found the chassis had twisted and despite not having produced this version for some time (tender drive) they searched high and low and found a new chassis, rebuilt my loco and sent it back free of charge.

There have been other similar good examples of how Hornby have gained my confidence over the years.

 

Now we have my 31, a recent model and one that should be in production still.

It has a known manufacturing fault.

Let's set aside the sentimental value for a moment.

 

Let's say I am a collector who wanted a BR blue class 31 in super fine detail.

Money was paid at the time to acquire one.

 

I have not worn it out, dropped it or otherwise abused it.

In fact let us say that it was kept in a locked vault in perfect conditions (not the case of course)

 

Then one day 7 years later when checking my collection I discover that the body of my 31 has exploded because the chassis has erupted inside!!!

 

It is not my fault that Hornby and others persist with these price hyking small runs of locomotives, they all do it to add value and appeal to collectors, Oh collectors!!!

 

I send the loco back in good faith knowing they do have a new super detail 31 on the books which presumably the chassi would fit mine.

 

And then Hornby announce that they will not fix it and will send me £100 to buy another train but only from their range of course.

 

But hang on a minute. What is the cost to me of replacing my 31 that I wanted and paid for in good faith?

Well it would seem it's almost impossible to replace it, not only is my body now damaged but the cost of getting a new chassis for my old now broken body would be astronomic.

 

The whole point is, I want the class 31 I had, not 'another train' not the new 31 from the range.

 

I don't see this as unreasonable on my part, not interested in money just the item I had that they have failed to keep sufficient spares for knowing this would come back to bite them on the bum.

Surely if they sold (i don't know) 10,000 of these locos with time bomb chassis, then they should have had 10,000 new chassis in stock ready to exchange?

 

Why is it the end user who has to suffer?

[mikesndbs]

Mike,

Did they give you the option of waiting until they have some chassis available ? That's got to be the only solution as the 100 quid won't cover one in any colour.

 

 

This is why I'd really like to see another manufacturer take on making a 31. I don't understand why the boys in blue aren't considering it.

 

Sadly not, I'd have been happy with that as well, just this rather uncaring £100 to 'buy another train' which has really peed me off to be honest.

[rob D2]

Ah, so your body has had it too ? That's a big problem.

I'd take the £100 and spend it on another different model, and buy a blue 31 off eBay for £75 ish.

 

U fortunately they are not planning on a blue batch, and they certainly won't tool up for, say, 3000 to fix those that have both knackered bodies and chassis.

 

I think you've reached stalemate

[John Tomlinson]

It's abit of a minefield - I have a requirement for more blue ones now and this week one of the ' 31111' variety went for over £100 on eBay.

the thing to watch for is not only the chassis, but the screw columns in the body become brittle and break off when the screws are loosened or titened.

 

You would have thought a bog standard BR blue 31 would be in production for ever, but ewhen was the last version actually produced ? 2008 ish ?

From memory we have 31270 ( original, flawed ), 31174 ( revised body with strap, some iffy chassis), 31111, 31165 ,31268, the last three being fine

One might say the same for the green SYP variant with headcode boxes - a staple item for  transition era modellers. And yet D5640 some years ago has been the only example. The two I bought I paid quite a high price for at the time - there was little discounting - which you might have thought would have told Hornby's marketing people something - apparently not!

 

John.

[John Tomlinson]

Ah, so your body has had it too ? That's a big problem.

I'd take the £100 and spend it on another different model, and buy a blue 31 off eBay for £75 ish.

 

U fortunately they are not planning on a blue batch, and they certainly won't tool up for, say, 3000 to fix those that have both knackered bodies and chassis.

 

I think you've reached stalemate

More out of curiousity than anything else, I recently bought a blue Railroad example, brand new, from Tesco.com for £49 delivered to my door. Obviously not the full wack model - it has the possibly superior Lima bodyshell for one thing - but runs beautifully nonetheless. Might be worth a thought as even if there was a future issue in the main range its likely to be well in excess of £100.

 

John.

[rob D2]

There are some major mix up with the body though isn't there in terms of accuracy.

 

I had a limby bubble car with the new motor , that ran like a bag of scanners on DCC, which has put me off any warmed over Lima / Hornby hybrids unfortunately.

[John Tomlinson]

There are some major mix up with the body though isn't there in terms of accuracy.

 

I had a limby bubble car with the new motor , that ran like a bag of scanners on DCC, which has put me off any warmed over Lima / Hornby hybrids unfortunately.

Yes, the Railroad 31 body has Mirrlees exhausts (I think), yet sealed, riveted end doors and no buffer beam cowls. I'm reconciled to scribing the centre of the doors and removing the rivets, at the same time as replacing the moulded end handrails - this will need a respray of the yellow. I'll have to firm up on the exhaust type in selecting my late 60's example, and it should be possible to knock up some cowls out of plasticard. I'll also have to  use plasticard for the raised strip panelling across the nose as done by others on RM web such as Phil Bullock of Abbotswood. 

 

As far as the mechanism goes, it is the new Hornby power bogie and seems to work very smoothly, although I still use analogue rather than DCC, and given the size of my loco fleet have no plan to change. Obviously the mechanism doesn't have the quality of the main range version - assuming the chassis doesn't fall to bits!  - but I mentioned it simply as another, lower cost option for those seeking a rail blue loco.

 

John.

Edited February 13, 2015 by John Tomlinson

[mossdp]

 

OK so here is the update, considering it's taken so long I am double  with them.

 

After much pressing for a tiny update a lady called here today while I was at work and said that my 31 was too far gone so they would do me the massive favour of ending it back to me and would send me £100 to 'buy another train'

Is that all they think I am worth?

 

This was robustly rejected by my new wife and she was told that I would have to speak with a Mr Mark Lodge.

 

In a email to him I have explained that this is totally unacceptable.

The 31 has not worn out and nowhere does it say that Hornby locomotives sold for collectors and runners alike will only last 7 years before needing to be thrown out. If they are going to say that I would imagine the bottom would fall out of the market for them.

This is a known manufacturing fault and I am entitled to be put back as I was or compensated to the tune of replacing the loco.

As R3262 is on the books at £163 that is what I need minimum, however I still make the point that I want my original loco back with new chassis

 

Deeply fed up with this result to be honest and will not be letting it lay at that.

 

Will update once I have a reply gutted

 

 

 

I'll make you a really cheeky offer mikesndbs. I returned a broken class 31 chassis block to Hornby about six months ago or possibly more I think. They sent me a replacement new chassis block in exchange - maybe one of the last new blocks that they had. However, I did not fit it as this class 31 has many other problems and bits missing. Take Hornby up on their offer of a £100 voucher code and return of your complete 31. I'll send you the new chassis block in return for the £100 voucher code - told you it was cheeky. You can rebuild your class 31 and I can replace mine using the voucher code with something that isn't a class 31 from the Hornby website. That way we each end up with an operational loco where neither of us has one at the moment. Note: make sure if Hornby return your 31 and they want to retain the damaged chassis that they do return absolutely all other parts from it including the lighting contacts, buffers and fuel tank as I think some parts vary between different models.

[mikesndbs]

I'll make you a really cheeky offer mikesndbs. I returned a broken class 31 chassis block to Hornby about six months ago or possibly more I think. They sent me a replacement new chassis block in exchange - maybe one of the last new blocks that they had. However, I did not fit it as this class 31 has many other problems and bits missing. Take Hornby up on their offer of a £100 voucher code and return of your complete 31. I'll send you the new chassis block in return for the £100 voucher code - told you it was cheeky. You can rebuild your class 31 and I can replace mine using the voucher code with something that isn't a class 31 from the Hornby website. That way we each end up with an operational loco where neither of us has one at the moment. Note: make sure if Hornby return your 31 and they want to retain the damaged chassis that they do return absolutely all other parts from it including the lighting contacts, buffers and fuel tank as I think some parts vary between different models.

Hmm, that's not a bad offer as it does get me what I need! Let me get back to them

[richierich]

I just need some chassis blocks too to fix my 31s!!

 

Hence investigative a plasticard scratch build replacement.

 

If only I could go back 20 years, then had access to aluminium casting facilities, and would have a go at casting some chassis blocks, and then machine them up!

[Rockdove]

Hi,

I'm quite new to this forum/site.

Just found this post regarding Hornby class 31's.

I've just checked my BR Dutch R2421 only to find part of the bodyshell is cracked, a piece of one the yellow panels as come away & the chassis is warped at one end causing one the cab doors/door frames to be out.

On closer inspection, one the plastic frames screwed to end part of the chassis (below the cab) is cracked & warped.

 

I Bought this a good few years ago & as spent most of the time in its box.

I've got a few Lima 31's with no issues & Airfix which is touching nearly 40 years old & besides needing new traction tyres & light oiling as never given me any trouble.

I'll be sending Hornby a e-mail.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Rockdove