Penlan Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 ........Whilst you're there check out the Advance Tickets and particularly the 4 for 3 ticket, its a bargin, but only if you have three friends. There's always a catch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Reading through some of the posts, I have really never thought about what periods may be at an Exhibition before (some 50+ years), I go to see some good > brilliant modelling, I choose the larger exhibitions because there will be traders and a (wide) range of layouts in terms of build and operational quality. That's it - Wigan would be on my regular list if I still lived in the Midlands, but a 800 mile round trip now needs some explaining. I agree I'm visiting Cardiff next week just to see Clarendon (separate Topic - my period), but that's to do with the LNWR and the owner/operators and the fact I've missed it so far, because I've usually been committed elsewhere when it's been exhibited - Oh and a meet up with some long term modelling friends (40+ years). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaton Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I agree with most of what BigAndy says, I have been going to Wigan for many years but will probably not attend this year for the same reason as Andy. We at WiganFRM have been reading the posts with some interest and are rather disappointed that BigAndy and 66540Ruby will not be with us this December. It is always going to be difficult to cater for every interest particularly if it is to the exclusion of other aspects of the hobby. We have always had a simple philosophy regarding the exhibits that make up our layout list and that is that they should reflect the quality within the hobby. It is upon this quality that we wish to establish our reputation. We realise that what constitutes quality is a very subjective judgement but then you just have to trust your own judgement and hope that it is appreciated by others. Very early we realised that this is not a philosophy that is necessarily compatible with producing a balanced show. If you are searching for quality exhibits then you are in a very competitive marketplace and in a very congested part of the exhibition calendar, as every Exhibition Manager is searching for exactly the same layouts. You are therefore totally dependent on the availability of the layouts you wish to invite. It is this need to move our exhibition to a less busy time of the year as well as the unpredictable December weather that has prompted our move next year to June. To give you some indication of how you have to operated in this situation, our layout list for 2012 is complete as is most of 2013. If it were not so, we would miss the very layouts upon which we wish to build our reputation. Hopefully out of this mix will appear a balanced show with something for everyone, but some years it won't and I am afraid that is just how the cookie crumbles. Last year we had a lot of modern image, this year we seem to have a lot of B.R., however if it is railway modelling that you are interested in, then there will always be something to wonder at. My own particular interest is the Cambrian Railways, so you can imagine how many exhibitions I go to and never see a Cambrian offering. You are lucky to see a Cambrian wagon never mind a layout. Like BigAndy and 66540Ruby I wished my particular interest to be reflected in my home exhibition. So I had a word with our Exhibition Manager and asked him to find a Cambrian layout. This he duly did! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hi Eaton, Thank you for a well balanced and objective reply. To reply to others that have posted on here that I am looking at this through 'modern image' eyes, I would just like to add the following. Of course i wish Wigan club absolute success with their exhibition. I have never once said that the quality of the attending layouts was anything less than superb, which looking through the list, I can say that it quite obviously is, and i am confident that my own miniscule lack of attendance will not detract from this show being just as succesful as all previous ones. I have attended Wigan pretty much reigiously over the previous years and have been extremely lucky to attend as an exhibitor along with the rest of the lads - I was simply observing that for a show that I have always attended, and have been impressed by the balance of sclaes, eras and nationalities, I was dissapointed at the lack of Diesel era layouts. Again, I apologies if I have offended anyone, it was certainly never my intention to do that, I was simply reflecting my thoughts. Picking up on what Eaton says about being led by what layouts are available, I totally agree and it must be a massive challenge to put a show the size of Wigan on, year after year and offer something new for the public to look at. With the ammount of shows that fill the calender now, there just isn't the time for people to build new layouts within a 12 month period anymore, as used to happen 30 years ago. The quality expectation has risen amongst a very discerning market place and that has a direct reflection on how long people are taking to build layouts - quality rather than quantity seems to be the motto these days, and quite rightly so. However that doesn't help exhibtion managers, most of whom slave beaverishly away behind the scenes with little thanks, trawling around shows week in week out, to look for layouts to attend their exhibitions. As I said before, this thread should be about Wigan show, not my own personal opinions, If for one second I thought that I may have stirred up a hornets nest then I wouldn't have posted. Good luck to this years show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaton Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Hi Andy, Never be afraid to post on the Wigan Thread, we are very thick skinned up here and what is more we very much welcome comment, positive or otherwise. If nothing else it gives us an opportunity to respond and explain the situation. We expected a bit of comment but about an entirely different matter. Perhaps that is yet to come!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Just obtained the day pass permission from SWMBO. Saturday looks likely. Hope work doesn't get in the way (as it did with ExpoEM North!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66540Ruby Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 With regard to my agreeing with BigAndy, like him, I did not post to 'stir up a hornets nest' it was mearly my opinion and i'm entitled to it. Like every decision in life, pro's and con's have to be weighed up before making a decision, this year, for personal reasons, has not been good for me and at the moment i'm not in the best of health. The lack of 'modern layouts' tipped the balance the way i've stated but had things been different in other parts of my life then I would be 99% sure of attending. Wigan is a good friendly show and has been for a long time my favorite exhibition and i'm sure i'll be attending in the future. I hope this years Wigan show is a big success as i'm sure it will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaton Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 There is an update to the Trade participation: We are able to welcome back Gem and Fleetline and also Railroom Electronics who is new to Wigan but comes highly recommended by non other than Charlie Petty. Unfortunately The P4 Track Company are unable to make the trek north to Wigan in December. Amazingly this thread has been live since 22nd September and no one has asked us to justify the £10 admission charge. Were we worrying over nothing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Amazingly this thread has been live since 22nd September and no one has asked us to justify the £10 admission charge. Were we worrying over nothing? At a tenner you have hit what could well prove to be a tipping point for many; but if they are of the same open mindset as me they are reserving judgement on that until actually seeing the show... It could go either of two ways: either you'll show the likes of Warley and the BRM shows what standard is needed to justify a £10+ entrance fee or you prove that big isn't necessarily beautiful and what a bargain the likes of Hull, Wakefield, Rochdale and Shipley in the £4-£6 bracket really are! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Amazingly this thread has been live since 22nd September and no one has asked us to justify the £10 admission charge. Were we worrying over nothing? I think you can justify it based on what is there , you have enough bang for your buck as it were.. I however can't justify going though as, similar to Warley, there isn't enough time to see over £8 of stuff in a day imho. In summary £10 is reasonable for those who think they can see it all, I think its too big personally though and am happier at a slightly smaller show. On the plus side the lighting in that hall doesn't lead to me feeling ill unlike Warley! I think £10 does make people think a bit more than something less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Exhibition entry prices an interesting topic in their own right and I think has been covered on RMWeb in the past, but if a show is worth attending with a good section of trade and layouts then I would be willing to pay £10 to get in, the entry fee is a small percentage of what a modeller may spend at or getting to the show, then add in refreshments and the cost can be quite high, although people will always moan about the door price what ever it is and never consider the other prices. We put the Railex prices up by 50 pence last year to £7 and we didn’t get moan about that about that although we get quite a few complaints from senior citizens that they had to pay the full adult price rather than having a discounted entry fee. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted November 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 2, 2011 I however can't justify going though as, similar to Warley, there isn't enough time to see over £8 of stuff in a day imho. Not sure how that works Craig, £8 of what ? traders ? layouts ? modern, steam, overseas ? good ones ? bad ones ? - not sure it's for this discussion mind but it's a bit bemusing to me, at least with a big show there is a good chance there will be plenty of interest, I've been to £3.50 (to pick a random lower price) shows where the quality was so poor I walked around and came straight out again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 As I said, £10 is a psychological 'barrier' for some (I think most medium/large shows will probably be OK if they stick below that) Personally, I will almost certainly be there as Wigan is usually a decent show, but it remains to be seen if there is for example really £3 more value than Manchester (inevitable comparison - sorry). Pure numbers of layouts don't alone justify that IF (and we don't know yet if it will or won't so I'm not pre-judging either way) quality suffers in the pursuit of quantity, or as Craig suggests there is 'too much of a good thing' that you can't do it justice in a day and have to rush to see everything or miss bits out... Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam - WFRM ADMIN Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Seeing as how the price now seems to be an issue, considering the size of the exhibition that we put on each year, and the quality of layouts that we have, you may find it interesting to find that we have had feedback regarding the price from a number of people of few of which are below:!!! "Last year the admission price was as you noted £8, this year it is £10 but it now includes an Exhibition Guidebook which last year cost £2 which we believe is a valuable aid to a visitors enjoyment of the exhibition, including as it does a write up of every layout usually accompanied by trackplans and photographs. You may also have noted that this year accompanied children are admitted free, which is a considerable saving for a family on last years price. But if you still wish to visit the largest exhibition in the northwest and gain a substantial discount on the £8 you paid last year then buy an Advance Ticket (details on the website) and in particular buy the 4 for 3 ticket which gain 4 people entry for £7.50 each including a guidebook. I would suggest that for an exhibition containing 39 layouts that is pretty good value." "Ten pounds outragious! Four pints of beer. Two pints of coffee. Two and a bit copies of British Railway Modelling magazine. One half of a visit to a premier football match! I'd rather have a full day looking at some of the best models available and trade stands selling everything I need in one place without all the hassle and aggro you get at Warley. Long live Wigan FRM." "Lots of good points made re' the value for money aspect of the admission price(s). I particularly like the idea of the free guidebook,especially if it includes trackplans of some of the layouts." "I too was concerned when I was advised of this years door charge, especially in view of current economic restraint. Then I visited the website and found an impressive list of exhibitors, traders and demonstrators, plus the inclusive guide. At this point I decided the price was reasonable. I then considered the fact that many of the traders are 'specialists' and not local. How much per annum would I spend on postage to purchase items, and without examining the items at first hand? Finally, there is the social aspect of attending. Meeting 'old friends', talking to denonstrators to gain knowledge, and perhaps solving some modelling dilema. To sum up, an event well worth attending!" If you buy your advance tickets you save money, if you buy the special offer 4 for 3 ticket you save even more, - and you get a FREE guide book!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Seeing as how the price now seems to be an issue, I don't see it being an issue, it was only brought up in post #33 and that was only because nobody had mentioned it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 A tenner is pretty good for me FOR THIS SHOW because it has a lot of the traders in it I want to talk to and buy from. It'd cost me more than that in postage if i went mail order. Of course I have to drive there - fuel is going to be thirty quid or so, but with 39 layouts it's worth it. And then there's the demos. I'm not going to Warley - the NEC is not my favourite place and the ancilliaries are quite frankly a rip off - the show itself may be worth the entry price, but it doesn;t have the range of finescale people that Wigan has. So if you read into this that I've planned my visit to take advantage of the show, I have. Going to be a busy Christmas, i hope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Seeing as how the price now seems to be an issue... Sorry Sam but that is out of order: It was raised by one of your own members - Peter (Eaton); phrased in a way which invited feedback. And so far that feedback is all 'it's 'not an issue' or 'giving you the benefit of the doubt'... Amazingly this thread has been live since 22nd September and no one has asked us to justify the £10 admission charge. Were we worrying over nothing? To then roll out a series of unatributed and obviously selective and one-sided comments, smacks of a set-up... Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 ......."Ten pounds outragious! Four pints of beer. Two pints of coffee...... Presumably Sam is quoting somebody else, but :- Four pints of beer? - the price now in our Legion Club is £2.60/pint, the local pubs circa £3.10 or more, OK agreed Witherspoons will be cheaper, but sorry, not four pints (and if you drink cider, not even 3 pints from our local). Two pints of coffee? I don't know, but I suppose some generous Cafetières may give you a couple of pints for a tenner. £10? If I have made a decision to attend an exhibition, it's not based on price, it's what will I see and friends I will meet, and anyway from west Cornwall, the admission fee is a very small % of attendance costs. If a number of other of life's factors where taken away, I would be visiting Wigan this year too. Edit - Show Guide included - Hooray, at last, something I've moaned about for ages on the whole exhibition circuit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Even if you only spend an average of three minutes looking at each layout, you will have had two hours entertainment for £10. Then you will have the chance to shop in an environment totally dedicated to what may well be your primary source of pleasure...hobby wise! You will also have received a show guide that could potentially offer as much reading material as your favourite monthly modelling magazine. You may well have entered the exhibition for £7.50 if you managed to find three like minded friends. Do I have any connection with this show other than the fact I'll be there as an exhibitor?...no. Do I think that all of the above represents value for money? Absolutely yes! Is £10 more indicative of the value for money you are getting, and the cost/effort of putting on such a large show? Again, yes in my book. If you can, read the BRM (?) article that the shows organisers wrote about putting Wigan show together. It's an entertaining and informative read, even if, like me, you do organise your own (more modest) event. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaton Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 In response to PLD, the comments quoted by Sam are from the Blog on our website and would seem to indicate that opinion is divided, as it was I must admit when we no longer offered Senior Discounts. The reason I brought up the subject was prompted by a conversation I had with a gentleman at the Manchester Show ( which incidentally was a very good show) who thought we were very expensive as most shows are around the £6 to £7 mark. I was hoping that if that was the general opinion, far better to get it out in the open, then at the very least we could justify our decision. However it seems that it may not be as big an issue as we feared if the above comments are typical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 To be Frank, I'm a little bit mystified at why there are complaints of high admission fees to shows. If most people were privvy to the overheads of putting on a show, any show, then they would realise that the admission fee - whatever it is, is actually good value for money. When putting on a show you have to factor in the cost of the hall, putting the exhibitors up in a hotel, feeding and watering everyone plus all the other myriad of smaller costs like postage, phone calls etc etc. It doesn't come cheap fellas! It seems that the comparison of attending a premiership footbal match is being used as an analogy here, but I can't quite grasp the concept of £10 being half a match.......... which premiership club charges twenty quid to watch a match? I don't know the answer to that, but I know that if you turn up to watch Macclesfield Town play ( in the secnd division ) it'll cost you £18 for the terraces, before you have a brew and a pie at half time, plus buying a programme and a go on the raffle............... I've not been to see a Premiership game for a few years, but I'd like to know how much it costs for a Saturday afternoon out compared to a Model Railway show. Plus, within an hour and a half it's all over and you're forced out of the ground! For ten pounds, you can stay all day at Wigan show or indeed any other show. You don't even have to submit to the outrageous charges for a burger if you don't want - you could take a packed lunch. The show is open for six and a half hours - that equates roughly to the princely sum of £1.53 an hour!! If you think one and a half quid an hour is over the top for what you're getting, then I'm afraid you're a bit delusional.....................! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 "Last year the admission price was as you noted £8, this year it is £10 but it now includes an Exhibition Guidebook which last year cost £2 which we believe is a valuable aid to a visitors enjoyment of the exhibition, including as it does a write up of every layout usually accompanied by trackplans and photographs. I dont have any issues paying a tenner for a show the standard of Wigan, nor do I think £2 excessive for what I'm sure is a very good guidebook. I am however a tad uncomfortable at the idea of *having* to pay for one (within that £10) whether I want one or not. Many visitors come in groups of two or more, and coild choose to share a guide between them; this way, they have no choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam - WFRM ADMIN Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Sorry Sam but that is out of order: It was raised by one of your own members - Peter (Eaton); phrased in a way which invited feedback. And so far that feedback is all 'it's 'not an issue' or 'giving you the benefit of the doubt'... To then roll out a series of unatributed and obviously selective and one-sided comments, smacks of a set-up... Paul not a 'set up' as you put it, all the quotes are from our blog which is on our website. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ELTEL Posted November 3, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 3, 2011 Hi Everybody As a long serving exhibition manager who as stated in the thread visits countless exhibitions each (and have done for 20 + years) it is as stated earlier in the thread very difficult to please all the people all,of the time. I think we would all agree money is a little tight for us all at present and the less than a fiver quality exhibitions are a thing of the past, Yes at that price you may see a couple of really good layouts but not a exhibition hall full off them. Quality traders follow quality exhibitions and that is a fact, and all the exhibitions that have been signalled in this thread have quality traders. Plug for our exhibition at Stafford in February it will be full off quality traders, and quality layouts with supporting demonstrations from Geoff Taylor, Paul Lunn and David Wright together with the local DEMU group All,this for £7.00 Free Car Parking Free Preserved Bus Service from the Rail Station on both days. Come and see us you will not be disappointed More details see www.staffordrailwaycircle.org.uk I will be at Rochdale, Wigan, Warley giving my support to all these great exhibitions ELTEL Exhibition Manager Stafford Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 At the end of the day you pay your money and you take your chances! I think "free" programmes are a misnomer - we looked at this a few years ago as a "tempter" to get people in but decided against it. It would have cost us very little to do that (advertising revenue takes up the bulk of production costs even of a nice full colour glossy programme) but decided against it for the very reasons Pennine states, people want the choice, and theres always that view of its a rip off. One of the concerns we had was someone going up to the door staff and saying , "no i dont want a programme I want to pay a pound less". Hence what seemed a good idea at the time we dropped like a stone. Wigan FRM, like all clubs, cannot afford to make a loss on a show. You want to put a quality show on, then you have to pay the extra costs of getting good quality layouts in. Its not a cheap exercise at all, particularly as the high cost of fuel is having a major impact on show finances. Therefore as a visitor you want to see quality layouts which you havent seen before in your locale, you pay a quality price. If you want to see the same old local recirculated layouts of dubious quality then theres plenty of shows around for you to visit but if you want the best, then Im afraid until layout owners decide to exhibit for free, expect to pay the quality price. Its a risky business this running shows! Support enterprise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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