RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted October 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2011 Last week I travelled on the Bath Spa express from Poole. Decent trip, the loco performed well but what on earth is that paint job all about? I really can't believe it - plain black that looks like a kid did it with a brush, no nameplates, it's horrible. It looks like a bad model of a 9F. Britannia is a classy main line express pacific and deserves to look like one. The sooner they get it back into lined green and put the nameplates back, the better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Colin, It's only temporary, to mark the 60th anniversary of the introduction of the class (and indeed BR Standards). 70000 herself was initially outshopped in unlined black for trial runs before receiving her name and BR green livery. Must admit, I rather like it..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Must admit, I rather like it..... Yep, me too, I saw it at the West Somerset last month and thought it looked rather impressive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Hi, Rather an impressive colour scheme for such a handsome locomotive. As for 'applied with a brush' - I think not. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bayford Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I dont understand why people have to moan about, it is a great achivement by the lads up in Crewe i personally think a black brit is rather good looking but if you dont like it then pay Mr Hoskings some money to repaint it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Hi, I quite like it too, I think it's makes Britannia a bit more powerfull than it does in lined green! I think instead of moaning and having a winge, we should actually be congratulating the guys that have worked on it for doing such a good job and for getting such an inconic and important locomotive back on the main line! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted October 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2011 Picture this - it's 1962 or 3 maybe. You pop up fron the underground at Euston and there, before your very eyes is 70004 'William Shakespeare', absolutely resplendent in lined BR green. It's your first ever 'Brit' cop, to say you are excited is the understatement of the year. You drink in its lines , its colour, its nameplate. Or you're on Reading station with your cheese sarnies in your duffel bag. There's a train in the platform you're spotting from so a very restricted view of what's going on in the rest of the station. Then - you hear it. The sound of a distant chime whistle which can only mean one thing - a Brit. You leg it as fast as you can to the rear of the train which is blocking your view, all the while hearing that fabulous sound as the thing continues to whistle up as it tears through the station. You reach the end of the obstructive train right at the moment that 70023 'Venus' hurtles into your field of vision with the up 'Red Dragon'. It's all gleaming green and whirring silver rods - and then it's gone leaving just a memory that has even now stirs me some 50 years later. Oh no, it's got to be green! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2011 Them as pays the piper calls the tune, I believe. If I owned a loco, I would consider it my right to paint it as I chose. I only saw 28 Brits, of 55 built, and cannot tell you any was in black, but plenty of handsome locos look might fine in that colour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted October 8, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2011 Hi, I quite like it too, I think it's makes Britannia a bit more powerfull than it does in lined green! I think instead of moaning and having a winge, we should actually be congratulating the guys that have worked on it for doing such a good job and for getting such an inconic and important locomotive back on the main line! Simon Glad to have prompted a bit of discussion, even if I seem to be in a minority. Glad to see the "any colour as long as it's black" brigade are alive and well ) As for the moaning and having a whinge and if I want it different I need to pay for it - by paying to take that trip I am supporting the preservation movement. If people are taking over £300 from paying customers for a day out, they put themselves into the entertainment business in order to pay for their hobby, and I reckon that £300 entitles me to an opinion. I too admire the preservationists - Don't get me wrong they are great for getting this super loco back into steam. I just happen to think they have spoilt it in the finishing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted October 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2011 Having only seen the photos here of her in black I have to say that I quite like what I'm seeing. I'm undecided if this would work as a long term colour though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Joking aside, I prefer a Brit looking like this than in the unlined green that was their lot towards the end. The last one I saw in 1966 had painted on names. What a come down after such a short life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 And of course there is a green version if you prefer..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2011 Or you're on Reading station with your cheese sarnies in your duffel bag. There's a train in the platform you're spotting from so a very restricted view of what's going on in the rest of the station. Then - you hear it. The sound of a distant chime whistle which can only mean one thing - a Brit. You leg it as fast as you can to the rear of the train which is blocking your view, all the while hearing that fabulous sound as the thing continues to whistle up as it tears through the station. You reach the end of the obstructive train right at the moment that 70023 'Venus' hurtles into your field of vision with the up 'Red Dragon'. It's all gleaming green and whirring silver rods - and then it's gone leaving just a memory that has even now stirs me some 50 years later. Or even more impressive in some ways one starting away (or trying to) on the Down Main from No.4 with the wheels slipping like fury until the Driver manages to get the slip under control and the loco picks up its train and is away. Are you sure all that was 50 years ago Phil - seems an awful lot less to me (until I start counting). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2011 I really can't believe it - plain black that looks like a kid did it with a brush, no nameplates, it's horrible. Proper engine painting was done with a brush. 14 coats, with a rub down by hand before each one. Pity the manufacturers give us 'pristine' models in satin finish paint, that only started to appear with the advent of airless spray putting it onto diesels and washing machines taking it off again the following week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mow Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 http://www.flickr.com/photos/16582147@N07/sets/72157627701315023/ On balance I prefer it in Brunswick Green, but I'm pleased to see it working. Photos from last Wednesday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hamblin Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 As my favourite loco I would prefer to see 70000 in BR green (preferably with early crest and white cab roof, but that is a story for another day). Having said that though I do rather like her in the plain black livery, makes the locomotive seem more imposing somehow. Anyway, I believe it is being repainted into green before next years appearance at the SSS3 Gala in aid of the Betton Grange project. To be honest I'm just glad that it's back working again after over a decade out of traffic. Regards, Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Yes I can remember clean (and very shiny) Brit's on the old GER in the fifties - just. And when clean, steam locos tended to be very shiny - not satin finished (as someone else has already mentioned). Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Them as pays the piper calls the tune, I believe. If I owned a loco, I would consider it my right to paint it as I chose. I can't say I'm convinced on that one, although it is a commonly forwarded opinion. If you were lucky and rich enough to buy Leonardo da Vinci's Mona Lisa, that wouldn't give you the right to paint glasses and a moustache on her. Although not quite the same thing, these engines are more than toys; they are also historical artifacts in their own right. The problem is that history isn't what happened, it's what people believe, or are told, and an incorrectly painted loco is a very convincing distortion of history. And while the other comment, "It's only paint; it isn't important," usually rears it's head, why did the pre-grouping company go to such extremes to produce colourful liveries? The paint is important: it's what the general public, most of whom don't know Thomas from an HST, first see and what makes the first, most important impression. And if the colour isn't important, why not use a correct one? I have to say that these are general comments not aimed at 70000 or its supporters: as stated plain black was a genuine although short lived scheme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted October 9, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2011 I can't say I'm convinced on that one, although it is a commonly forwarded opinion. If you were lucky and rich enough to buy Leonardo da Vinci's Mona Lisa, that wouldn't give you the right to paint glasses and a moustache on her. Although not quite the same thing, these engines are more than toys; they are also historical artifacts in their own right. The problem is that history isn't what happened, it's what people believe, or are told, and an incorrectly painted loco is a very convincing distortion of history. And while the other comment, "It's only paint; it isn't important," usually rears it's head, why did the pre-grouping company go to such extremes to produce colourful liveries? The paint is important: it's what the general public, most of whom don't know Thomas from an HST, first see and what makes the first, most important impression. And if the colour isn't important, why not use a correct one? I have to say that these are general comments not aimed at 70000 or its supporters: as stated plain black was a genuine although short lived scheme. Painting a loco isn't the same as a Mona Lisa. A painting is exactly that, a painting and would be ruined if if you painted glasses or what ever on it. But a loco is an object in its own right and isn't damaged by having it painted the wrong colour. It can be fairly easily repainted the correct colour if and when the owner so wished. Much worse in my opinion would be a totally inaccurate shade such as a Scarlet or Garter Blue LMS 4-6-0 or 4-6-2, even Crimson Lake A4s or Kings. At least the Britannia is painted a respectable colour that could of easily been the colour of choice. Kevin Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2011 I can't say I'm convinced on that one, although it is a commonly forwarded opinion. If you were lucky and rich enough to buy Leonardo da Vinci's Mona Lisa, that wouldn't give you the right to paint glasses and a moustache on her. Although not quite the same thing, these engines are more than toys; they are also historical artifacts in their own right. The problem is that history isn't what happened, it's what people believe, or are told, and an incorrectly painted loco is a very convincing distortion of history. And while the other comment, "It's only paint; it isn't important," usually rears it's head, why did the pre-grouping company go to such extremes to produce colourful liveries? The paint is important: it's what the general public, most of whom don't know Thomas from an HST, first see and what makes the first, most important impression. And if the colour isn't important, why not use a correct one? I have to say that these are general comments not aimed at 70000 or its supporters: as stated plain black was a genuine although short lived scheme. But then some people might take that a stage further and point out that when 70000 was painted black it was apparently in matt finish and in any case certain mechanical features of the loco were different from the state they are in now (and I don't just mean the Westinghouse pump). So basically, whether you like it or not, the way the loco is currently painted is inaccurate for its visible mechanical condition and equally even if it were to be painted green, lined or not, its visible mechanical condition (in this case the Westinghouse pump) would not be accurate for the livery it would be wearing. Same old story I'm afraid - don't confuse the appearance of quite a lot of 'preserved' items with their once workaday appearance. And as far as travelling on a 'steam special' is concerned in my experience a large proportion of the paying punters wouldn't have the faintest idea if the loco is or isn't painted in the correct colour etc because they are there for a special day out on a steam train and their enjoyment relates to that and not the finer points of historical debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepney55 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I like 70000 in Black, have only seen it from a distance at Crewe but looked great, i bought the Hornby model of it and added early crests to it. Will be seeing it at the SSS3 gala next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 45156 Posted October 9, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2011 My initial reaction was that the only memory of the Brits was that they were black anyway - the green was a long way down under the muck. However, I am in two minds about a black paint job, but hey, we've argued this before with a maroon LMS 8F. The one that I really was against was the Fairburn Class 4 tank on the Lakeside in Caley blue - which really did not sit comforably with me. This is a very emotive subject indeed, and everybody has their own view on just how a preserved loco should look - for probably 95% of us, in the lovery that we actually remember - or at the earliest, the one before. It is totally down to the owner of the loco how it gets painted, though I've got to say that the poll for the final livery on the Duchess (with every vote being charged via a premium rate phone number so that a donation went to the restoration fund) was a brilliant outcome, though the result actually just proved my point as above, as the winner was... BR GREEN with express lining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 It is currently painted black, therefore it is a prototypically correct livery. It may be not be exactly as is was in 1951, but since it is not intended to be a faithfully re-creation (it is not a museum exhibit) it really does not matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 We're talking about preserving something for the present (and hopefully future) generations to enjoy - the sight of a steam train in operation. Not conserving something in aspic, that's dead and soul-less. A black unnamed Brit, especially 70000 herself, as I mentioned above is not without precident. Moving the discussion in a slightly different direction. What I find slightly more disturbing, but this is probably just me, is seeing preserved locos in action way off their normal haunts. I'm afraid they leave me cold. Now I love Deltics. One was down my neck of the woods recently and I went out to see it. But it was not the same as seeing them regularly climb out of Grantham to Stoke Summit, or watching them send out their characteristic exhaust plume as they pulled out of KX. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted October 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2011 If they hadn't painted her black, she would never have failed in such a spectacular manner! I am convinced it was a fit of the sulks, she wouldn't have done it if she'd been in lined green. Regards Richard (very much tongue in cheek) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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