dandg Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Rails of Sheffield will not get any more pre-orders from me. I also received an email from Hattons and could have pre-ordered for £24, but why should I? I thought that I had supported my local model shop and pre-ordered at £22.50 two years earlier! My quibble is not about the price rises imposed by Bachmann, it is over the way that Rails conceal the fact that pre-order prices are only good for 12 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I did a similar pre-order to Larry in May 2014 but with Rails for a similar price (£23.50 each). The email I had from them yesterday morning indicated that they were not going to honour their 12 month price guarantee anyway. I've challenged this as it is not at all clear nor is it possible to find the T&Cs on the Rails website. It is not something that I had noticed until needing it but I suspect there is no contract with them yet. Just my acceptance of their offer to sell at the price they now will not honour. When you've preordered 8 of them to be told you have to pay more than 30% extra per coach a week before shipment is taking the piss irrespective of whether they have any control of the Bachmann price rise or not. Not much goodwill and a rather disrespectful attitude to their customers is putting it mildly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Looks like they might loose a few customers then ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted July 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2014 I did a similar pre-order to Larry in May 2014 but with Rails for a similar price (£23.50 each). The email I had from them yesterday morning indicated that they were not going to honour their 12 month price guarantee anyway. I've challenged this as it is not at all clear nor is it possible to find the T&Cs on the Rails website. It is not something that I had noticed until needing it but I suspect there is no contract with them yet. Just my acceptance of their offer to sell at the price they now will not honour. When you've preordered 8 of them to be told you have to pay more than 30% extra per coach a week before shipment is taking the piss irrespective of whether they have any control of the Bachmann price rise or not. Not much goodwill and a rather disrespectful attitude to their customers is putting it mildly. I am sorry....what a distasteful way to conduct your business.Hattons are apparently,honouring my order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brittannia Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hattons did state in their weekly newsletter that all orders for the Bachmann porthole coaches ordered before Saturday May 17th 2014 would be honoured at their price of £24 after this date the higher Bachmann price less 15% would be charged. Also they emailed me saying although Hornby had increased the price of Coronation class City of Liverpool they were honouring the price quoted to me some £12 difference. I would say Hattons certainly let you know where you stand with pre-orders 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I had the same response from Hattons, on 16th May they answered my e-mail query to confirm that the pre order price I had for 5 porthole coaches and a Heljan Hunslet Class 05 would be supplied at the original pre-order price, despite there being significant price increases from the model companies, in the case of the Class 05, the price had risen from £77 to £100. I will wait and see if I get them, as I fully expected to pay a higher price, albeit with perhaps some additional reduction to recognise the pre order status. In the 'Bachmann Why Price Increases are Necessary' thread (now locked) I had wondered if retailers would be able to discount the Porthole coaches by more than 15% of the new selling price, even for pre-orders, due to the Bachmann trading terms for new models, however Andy Y advised that these coaches were announced by Bachmann prior to those terms being introduced. If Hattons are able to supply at original pre order prices, they will gain much customer satisfaction and appreciation 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochinvar Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I had the same response from Hattons, on 16th May they answered my e-mail query to confirm that the pre order price I had for 5 porthole coaches and a Heljan Hunslet Class 05 would be supplied at the original pre-order price, despite there being significant price increases from the model companies, in the case of the Class 05, the price had risen from £77 to £100. I will wait and see if I get them, as I fully expected to pay a higher price, albeit with perhaps some additional reduction to recognise the pre order status. In the 'Bachmann Why Price Increases are Necessary' thread (now locked) I had wondered if retailers would be able to discount the Porthole coaches by more than 15% of the new selling price, even for pre-orders, due to the Bachmann trading terms for new models, however Andy Y advised that these coaches were announced by Bachmann prior to those terms being introduced. If Hattons are able to supply at original pre order prices, they will gain much customer satisfaction and appreciation I did a similar pre-order to Larry in May 2014 but with Rails for a similar price (£23.50 each). The email I had from them yesterday morning indicated that they were not going to honour their 12 month price guarantee anyway. I've challenged this as it is not at all clear nor is it possible to find the T&Cs on the Rails website. It is not something that I had noticed until needing it but I suspect there is no contract with them yet. Just my acceptance of their offer to sell at the price they now will not honour. When you've preordered 8 of them to be told you have to pay more than 30% extra per coach a week before shipment is taking the piss irrespective of whether they have any control of the Bachmann price rise or not. Not much goodwill and a rather disrespectful attitude to their customers is putting it mildly. I had the same response from Hattons, on 16th May they answered my e-mail query to confirm that the pre order price I had for 5 porthole coaches and a Heljan Hunslet Class 05 would be supplied at the original pre-order price, despite there being significant price increases from the model companies, in the case of the Class 05, the price had risen from £77 to £100. I will wait and see if I get them, as I fully expected to pay a higher price, albeit with perhaps some additional reduction to recognise the pre order status. In the 'Bachmann Why Price Increases are Necessary' thread (now locked) I had wondered if retailers would be able to discount the Porthole coaches by more than 15% of the new selling price, even for pre-orders, due to the Bachmann trading terms for new models, however Andy Y advised that these coaches were announced by Bachmann prior to those terms being introduced. If Hattons are able to supply at original pre order prices, they will gain much customer satisfaction and appreciation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbeagleowner Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Had an email from Hattons to say that they're here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawyermodels Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Pics of the Porthole coaches 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Two of my pre-orders at Hattons have been processed, at 28.30 pounds per vehicle. I find this reasonable and understandable, I would not wish to see Hattons, or any other retailer, take a loss due to circumstances beyond their control. Perhaps I'm more understanding than most, but I am really looking forward to their arrival! Cheers, Peter C. Edited July 7, 2014 by 45568 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I've been advised by Hattons that 3 of my 5 Porthole coach orders have been processed at £24 plus p&p, the remaining two are the brake coaches. I was advised by another retailer that at £24, Hattons would still make a small profit if they received all possible normal trade discounts from Bachmann, but it would not be sustainable. That aside, they have given unexpected service and proved that they are prepared to meet their pre-order price commitments. They did advise me that it would only be in exceptional circumstances that they would consider increasing a pre-order price, and I believed that an increase in the order of 45%, as has occurred with these coaches, would be considered exceptional, so good on you Hattons-well done. I suspect that these type of pre-order guarantees will not be available for Bachmann products in the future, as most future models are not being priced and mail order companies will now be wary of such potential future price increases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Yes, had my order processed and, as Rembrow notes, seems that they're all here apart from the brake coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brittannia Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 E-mail today from Hattons that they would be sending my 4 Porthole coaches in one package to save on postal charges and that the price is £24 each coach plus £4 packing charges although no notification of delivery date as yet . Great service and advise on orders to be posted out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochinvar Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 what I intended to say in my earlier fumbled attempt was that I have and have had a number of items on order from Rails on their price guarantee terms,so am fully aware of the 12 month limit. That said I have a fair degree of sympathy with some of the concerns ventilated here. A 12 month limit hardly seems apt in the current era of long lead times between announcement and release.As we have seen it can disadvantage those making early ordering co mmitments. It surely cannot be right that those who have ordered more recently (looks in mirror) should benefit from the original guaranteed price while the early orderers don't. . Rails ought to be looking at this again.But for the future perhaps we should cancel and then immediately re-order any outstanding orders as they approach the 12 month point. We really shouldnt have to adopt tactics like that. DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 ... Rails ought to be looking at this again.But for the future perhaps we should cancel and then immediately re-order any outstanding orders as they approach the 12 month point. We really shouldnt have to adopt tactics like that. ... Or you could just place an order with a different supplier? Part of me is feeling a bit guilty that Hattons are supplying new porthole stock to me at a pre-order price of £22 each. But, as a reward for standing by their promise, they can be sure they will continue to receive lots more orders from me in future. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted July 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2014 Hi. Upon enquiring with Hattons today, it may be that the brake thirds will be appearing August/September. I do have them on pre-order. The all third and CK which I had ordered are on their way, all being well. Looking forward to them. All the best, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Two of my pre-orders at Hattons have been processed, at 28.30 pounds per vehicle. I find this reasonable and understandable, I would not wish to see Hattons, or any other retailer, take a loss due to circumstances beyond their control. Perhaps I'm more understanding than most, but I am really looking forward to their arrival! Cheers, Peter C. Further to my post above, in light of others stating they had been charged 24 pounds per item, I re-examined my invoices from Hattons. In fact, the items have been charged at 24 pounds each, ( to me, less VAT, that is a little over 22 pounds each posted!!!). Full marks to Hattons for honouring their pre-order policy, and the timely warning of price increases they issued. I now have great faith that the rest of my pre-orders, and there are quite a few, will be delivered at the correct price.. Thanks again Hattons! Cheers from Oz, Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Ian Allan Waterloo had 4 each yesterday, of Open, 1/3, 3rd, & 1st. No brakes. All at £39.99p each. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 An update on my situation. My discussions with Rails (3 e-mails and 2 phone calls) have yielded an equitable solution although not at the price I had agreed to pay when the order was placed. Hattons certainly appear to have the upper hand in terms of planning, communication and the business philosophy (possibly selling some products at a loss) to keep customers happy. I just hope the coaches live up to expectations when they finally arrive... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) what I intended to say in my earlier fumbled attempt was that I have and have had a number of items on order from Rails on their price guarantee terms,so am fully aware of the 12 month limit. That said I have a fair degree of sympathy with some of the concerns ventilated here. A 12 month limit hardly seems apt in the current era of long lead times between announcement and release.As we have seen it can disadvantage those making early ordering co mmitments. It surely cannot be right that those who have ordered more recently (looks in mirror) should benefit from the original guaranteed price while the early orderers don't. . Rails ought to be looking at this again.But for the future perhaps we should cancel and then immediately re-order any outstanding orders as they approach the 12 month point. We really shouldnt have to adopt tactics like that. DR Prices guaranteed for 12 months, count yourselves lucky! When I get quotes for machinery spares at work they're usually guaranteed for 30 days! Given the scale of the recent price rises I'm surprised any shop is honouring prices from that long ago. Whether a shop does so might simply be a case of whether the business is big enough to absorb the loss of profit. Jeremy Edited July 8, 2014 by JeremyC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted July 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 8, 2014 Hi. Well further to post 166. The two Portholes arrived this morning from Hattons. They do look good to me and I've taken a photo' of each of the TK and the CK... I hope that these photo's will be helpful. All the best, Market65. P.S. The CK has the correct end profile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Just ordered one and a BR Mk1, all too easy by web! Are their any hints as to when maroon examples will be on sale? Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochinvar Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Prices guaranteed for 12 months, count yourselves lucky! When I get quotes for machinery spares at work they're usually guaranteed for 30 days! Given the scale of the recent price rises I'm surprised any shop is honouring prices from that long ago. Whether a shop does so might simply be a case of whether the business is big enough to absorb the loss of profit. Jeremy But it might be possible to offer what would seem to be potentially loss-making retai l prices if you have the "clout" (usually volume) to have nailled down the right price with your wholeseller. Rails and Hattons might perhaps be in that position viz-a-viz Bachmann. DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Coaches just arrived, very, very nice. Lovely rendition of an LMS Porthole coach.... BUT, who the hell designed the bogies, they are possibly the worst bogies I've seen in a long time. Detail is so flat and the bogie so narrow that there is no chance of fitting EM or P4 wheelsets into them even although the brakeshoes are set out to just clear EM and, who's ever heard of 23.5mm length axles.... That's 1mm shorter than Lima axles. Metal strips with pressed in cones for the wheels to run in and pick-up tags going into the coach body - what is that all about???? There's no lighting so no reason for them. The outer end of the bogie has no crossmember so that end is so flimsy that the wheelsets can just flop about. Such a pity that Bachmann have seen fit to design something not fit for the purpose in my opinion. It would have been better to fit their old LMS bogie than these poor efforts. Was happy but now not so.... Dave Franks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 9, 2014 Coaches just arrived, very, very nice. Lovely rendition of an LMS Porthole coach.... BUT, who the hell designed the bogies, they are possibly the worst bogies I've seen in a long time. Detail is so flat and the bogie so narrow that there is no chance of fitting EM or P4 wheelsets into them even although the brakeshoes are set out to just clear EM and, who's ever heard of 23.5mm length axles.... That's 1mm shorter than Lima axles. Metal strips with pressed in cones for the wheels to run in and pick-up tags going into the coach body - what is that all about???? There's no lighting so no reason for them. The outer end of the bogie has no crossmember so that end is so flimsy that the wheelsets can just flop about. Such a pity that Bachmann have seen fit to design something not fit for the purpose in my opinion. It would have been better to fit their old LMS bogie than these poor efforts. Was happy but now not so.... Dave Franks Interesting, and a bit worrying. But maybe a bogie kit on the horizon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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