RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted November 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2011 Then I am correct. I entered a value of £25 for 1991 which is what the average lima desiel was back then and in present day it works out as approx £40 to £49. Now thats a far cry from the £100+ figures we see now. Cav I just bought two ViTrains class 47's from Hattons at £49 for one and £50 for the other. I know I would rather them over the Lima version, despite the nice moulding it was. Loco's today are of higher quality in many aspects compared to 1991, silly shape issues in some cases aside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Then I am correct. I entered a value of £25 for 1991 which is what the average lima desiel was back then and in present day it works out as approx £40 to £49. Now thats a far cry from the £100+ figures we see now. Cav But look what you got for your ''£40 to £49''. A one piece plastic body with no separate detail parts, either factory fitted or included. No etched parts, a crap 3 pole Ringfield style motor (steam and diesel!) very few pick-ups, pizza cutter wheels and shelves big enough for window boxes under the windows! Great fun to hack/detail up but I think I'll stick with the present! kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Yeah its crackers a lima loco from back then is more than £25 now!! Anyway I thought someone would remark on the quality issue but I don't think it holds water. Everything gets better over time due to improvements in technology, it is no more difficult or expensive to make a Bachmann or Vitrains 47 now than it was to make a lima back then (relative to wages etc) so these improvements shouldn't make the cost inproportionately more expensive. My desktop PC for example is probably 100.000 times better than the one I had in 1991 but the price for it is actually less than it was back then because the technology now exists to make it better and faster cutting manufacturing times and reducing labour intensive manufacture. Same with locos or anything else. Still mass produced and popped off a production line, just with better machines. I take my hat off to the people who market the stuff its them that convince us to part with the cash. As for the ViTrains 47 (best shape btw!! Think I've said before Haha) I agree I always buy the cheaper stuff where I can and granted you can get new stuff for around £50 but they are the offer end of line stuff. I could get end on line Lima for £12 to £15 back then. I'm talking RRP minus the usualshop 10% or so. Lets make no mistake here it people who pay the prices that allow them to charge it. You can only get what people are willing to pay. Cav Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Still doesn't wash though! Yes the manufacturing processes have got better/cheaper, but the more separate pieces to be added, (just think of all the little handrails on the Hornby 31 roof!) all the extra wires, DCC socket, lights etc, all add cost. Mind you, I still wouldn't pay full whack for a 60! kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Theres no disputing that todays items are leagues ahead (with their £50s worth of plastic sprues of pipework and couple of etched brass grilles?) I would never go back to what we had but I would never run a 386 pc either and yet I can get my nice new starship enterprise spare pc that I have now for less than I paid then for the 386. Of course todays locos should be more coin but 5 x more? Behave. Cav Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 "...Everything gets better over time due to improvements in technology..." I wish you'd tell that to the b******s that created Vista! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted November 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2011 Theres no disputing that todays items are leagues ahead (with their £50s worth of plastic sprues of pipework and couple of etched brass grilles?) I would never go back to what we had but I would never run a 386 pc either and yet I can get my nice new starship enterprise spare pc that I have now for less than I paid then for the 386. Of course todays locos should be more coin but 5 x more? Behave. Cav But what new Diesels which have picked up where Lima left off now cost five times what they did in 1991? As you said, at today's prices that works out at between £40-£49, so what locos that are in a manufacturers general rage cost around the £200 - £250 mark? Prices have gone up? Sure. Dramatically? I'm not so sure. Has the quality improved? Yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted November 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2011 What diesels are costing £200 - £250? (excluding sound which was not around in Lima days) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2011 Theres no disputing that todays items are leagues ahead (with their £50s worth of plastic sprues of pipework and couple of etched brass grilles?) I would never go back to what we had but I would never run a 386 pc either and yet I can get my nice new starship enterprise spare pc that I have now for less than I paid then for the 386. Of course todays locos should be more coin but 5 x more? Behave. Cav Hi Cav, But demand for PC's has risen dramatically over the last two decades [*], thus driving higher quantity and spec = lower production costs. I doubt demand for model railways has seen a similar numeric/percentage increase to drive the quality up. Like you, Kev and numerous others, I'm in the fortunate position to be able to hack/detail/repaint and thus reluctant to buy the latest all singing/dancing releases (although I do get the credit card out on the odd item.......) and will happily buy second hand if I am certain of what I am buying. Cheers, Mick [*] "My" first "portable" computer at work (1987?) was a Toshiba with an orange gas plasma display and 20MB hard drive, my boss had the deluxe 40MB version. Even in 1996, a a Toshiba laptop with a 500kB hard drive was £1800 and cost a further £200 to upgrade to 2MB 2 years later. And yes - I reckon the ViTrains 47 is good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Then I am correct. I entered a value of £25 for 1991 which is what the average lima desiel was back then and in present day it works out as approx £40 to £49. Now thats a far cry from the £100+ figures we see now. Cav What £100+ figures? Here's a Bachmann Class 25 for £52. An infinitely better model than your putative Lima diesel from 1991 and a close comparision with the £49.30 estimate (using average earnings). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Here's a Bachmann Class 25 for £52. An infinitely better model than your putative Lima diesel from 1991 and a close comparision with the £49.30 estimate (using average earnings). Aye, Lima were always made down to a price, they were never the quality of (say) a Mainline Warship or 56, which in their day were more akin to today's top end stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 ...with the dishonourable exception of the mechanisms... Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catkins Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I would have thought a direct cost comparison would be effective between Lima of old, and Hornby Railroad! I will admit that quality of the models has improved, I remember buying the Hornby 50, and when I turned it out of the tray I nearly dropped it because of the chassis weight. In defence of the greater than "presumed" price increase, most of the models are made in china, which is rapidly bringing its lifestyle up to western standards - yes the chinese want their Ford Focus cars as well!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I would have thought a direct cost comparison would be effective between Lima of old, and Hornby Railroad! As you wish. ... Here's a Hornby Railroad Class 33 for £38. This compares even better with the £49.30 estimate, and even the lower £40.00 estimate. These are not "corner case" prices. I spent almost no time looking this up and simply picked the first example that I found. I think it demonstrates that if anything, today's prices are just as affordable (or unaffordable depending on relative personal income) as prices were in the good old days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC Jack Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Thanks to both who explained the computer speak. Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 But what new Diesels which have picked up where Lima left off now cost five times what they did in 1991? As you said, at today's prices that works out at between £40-£49, so what locos that are in a manufacturers general rage cost around the £200 - £250 mark? Prices have gone up? Sure. Dramatically? I'm not so sure. Has the quality improved? Yes. Not 5x the already adjusted price 5 x the price back then. I understand what your saying about quality but I still stand by what I said. I dont really agree that Lima were the budget option back then. Granted mainline were higher quality but very limited with what was produced. To the point where if there was an equilalent today it would be considerably more expensive. I dont agree that railroad is the direct comparison as thosr are essentially the same models as were available back then (slightly better motors granted) where in reality technology progresses. Therefore the railroad range ought to be even cheaper. Its like selling a 1991 midrange car that was 8k then for like 16k now. Doesnt happen. What we get is a 16k car now but with loads of modern improvements and extra features like electric windows and state of the art electronics not a 16k 1991 spec with the more up to date version costing you 40k. Cav Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC Jack Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 It was second hand Lima and Hornby diesels that got me back into the hobby when I had kids at home and a mortgage. With the help of Craftsman and Westward detailing kits and (remember them?) along with flush glazing from SEFinecast - with some time and patience you could turn some indifferent models into something worth having and cheaply. Didn't run perfectly but they were fun! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 With the help of Craftsman and Westward detailing kits and (remember them?) along with flush glazing from SEFinecast - with some time and patience you could turn some indifferent models into something worth having and cheaply. I still have a couple to do... With the higher detail spec models available (and price of course), this also means that time spent in the past improving models can be used in other aspects of the hobby. From a layout perspective I don't think that the standard of modelling has changed significantly over the years. The difference is (to mine eyes), that there are more layouts today that are at a higher overall standard. The diorama competition has a superb collection of entries. One area of change is the overall wider use of weathering techniques on rolling stock, lineside features etc... to increase the visual impact of realism... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I agree dilbert The high end layouts now still stand out from the norm as they always have done. The average model railway (to use a tag from the old railway modeller) is a lot better than it was though. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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