Kernow commission ex LSWR Gate Stock Pull Push Sets

[DJM Dave]

I'm sure that as soon as we can, we will :-)

[gc4946]

I welcome the new initiative to speed up this project in cooperation with Kernow Model Rail Centre.

 

I'm suggesting as a follow-on from this, as they used the same 56' underframe as the "Gate Stock", two types of LSWR non-corridor stock, formed into sets, the last of these withdrawn around 1957, of which two survive in preservation for measurement:

 

Lavatory brake third http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=321

 

Lavatory composite http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=316

 

They appeared in LSWR salmon/brown, LSWR and early SR sage green, SR Maunsell olive, SR Bulleid and early BR malachite, and BR crimson.

 

 

 

 

[gardenwall]

As the Stationmaster mentioned on the Dapol thread, What colour will the boxes be?     We now have two new entrants - I do hope DJM and Kernow are talking on this.

[DJM Dave]

This will be Kernow's choice as it's their model and 'brand'.

I'd imagine colours along the same lines as the established Beattie well tank.

[gc4946]

Peter,

 

Thanks for posting photos of your ex-LSWR carriage stock, it looks like anyone considering a mass-produced version has to carefully choose which types to reproduce, taking into account the tooling costs involved and likely demand.

 

The lavatory brake 3rd in your final image is modelled with sliding doors to the guard's van.

Whereas the Bluebell Railway's preserved example has opening double doors, I'd go for the preserved version as people are more familiar with that type.

 

I'd wait to see how the Gate Stock sells as that was a most distinctive design in its own right which could be modelled as a compact two-coach set.

 

[mvrnut]

I notice that cad-cam images for the LSWR Gate Stock are now displayed on the Kernow MRC website. Looking good so far !

Hope we can look forward to more LSWR coaches after these are produced.

 

Cheers,

   Chris

[chris45lsw]

gc4946, on 13 Nov 2013 - 19:14, said:

Peter,

 

Thanks for posting photos of your ex-LSWR carriage stock, it looks like anyone considering a mass-produced version has to carefully choose which types to reproduce, taking into account the tooling costs involved and likely demand.

 

The lavatory brake 3rd in your final image is modelled with sliding doors to the guard's van.

Whereas the Bluebell Railway's preserved example has opening double doors, I'd go for the preserved version as people are more familiar with that type.

 

I'd wait to see how the Gate Stock sells as that was a most distinctive design in its own right which could be modelled as a compact two-coach set.

 

Echoing what GC4946 & PB have said I would endorse their views that if more 56 ft stock was to be produced the obvious choice would be the 4/3-LAV sets: BTL diagram 274 (preserved on the Bluebell)/ CL diag 274 ("preserved" on the KESR - though its future doesn't look hopeful) / TL diag 17 / BTL diag 124. They were built as 4 car sets but the SR reduced them to 3 from 1935, the diag 17 TLs going loose or to other longer sets. They were the only pure 56 ft sets - as already said all other sets involved a mixture of 56 ft & 58 ft coaches (the 58ft underframe being standard SR Maunsell with SR bogies), except the 'Lyme Regis' 2-LAV sets Nos. 42-46 where both coaches were 58 ft.

 

Though there is one damper to simply using the gate set underframe for other 56 ft stock. That is they didn't have 56 ft underframes! Although the gate stock bodies were 56 ft long the ends had turn unders so the actual underframe was only 55 ft 6.75 ins long!

 

Food for thought.

 

chris45lsw

[phil gollin]

.

 

Grahme Muz posted links to updated CADs on the Kernow facebook page on his blog  -  it says that there is still some work to do  ;

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.643897945651756.1073741847.207521425956079&type=1

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

[Graham_Muz]

It's only a few minor corrections to be made to cover the SR and early BR versions. We have also requested a set of CADs to produce set 373 in later BR days to include the additional steel side plating that was applied.

[phil gollin]

.

 

Just to say thanks for all your work on the Southern blog and a happy Christmas (and sorry for mis-spelling your name).

 

( P.S. any comment on the Model Rail editorial ? )

 

.

[mvrnut]

I would have thought that this thread and the Adam's 02 thread would have been moved over to the DJM section as Dapol are no longer producing these items.

 

Cheers,

   Chris

[Oldddudders]

Within (I hope) the spirit of this topic, and with a forward-looking cap on, I wonder what the temptation might be for further versions of  "Gate Stock". The ones discussed so far have been the 56ft pairs with the scroll-detail iron gates to the vestibule. These, I believe were built for pull-push operation from the outset. 

 

But there were others that started life as steam railcars (plus trailer). Notable were the "Portland Gate Stock" (which did not survive WW2) and the "Plymouth Gate Stock" (which did survive the conflict, fetched up on various parts of the Withered Arm, and could be seen either singly or in some pairing arrangement).

These were particularly varied but a simplified description might be called 50ft stock with lattice gates.

 

I don't think anyone would have predicted, a few years ago, any r-t-r model of a Gate Stock prototype, but it seems that we are about to be proved wrong. (I for one look forward to ownership, Maunsell and Bulleid liveries.)

 

So, I wonder, would I be in good company if I sought a 50ft ex-steam railcar coach for branch line usage? Photos show them operating between Halwill Jn and Torrington, between Bere Alston and Callington, at Wadebridge, and at Okehampton (on workman's trains to Meldon Quarry).

 

They oozed charm and character, and for those of us without the room to operate a 12-coach summer Saturday ACE, they make a strong statement.

 

PB

I think, Peter, the remedy is in our own collective hands. If Kernow find the pull-push sets fully- or over-subscribed, we may expect more, and all ideas will be considered, no doubt. Should stock languish, then that will be that.

[Graham_Muz]

Great progress has been made over the last couple of months and we have now been able to sign off the gate Stock Cads see https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.774188399289376&type=3&l=c835659d04

 

Note also that the BR version of set 373 also includes the sheet plating that was applied to the set.

[Andy Y]

Kernow Model Rail Centre Press Release - OO Gauge LSWR Gate Stock approved for tooling

 

After several iterations of cads have been processed we have today signed these off to allow tooling to commence.  We are pleased to confirm that we will be producing the final set (K1004) with the modified bodyside sheeting, continuing our commitment to produce models as accurately as possible and incorporating the many individual unique features of each individual vehicle

 

 

Four versions of the 1914 Stock will be available: -

K1001 Set number 374 in SR Lined Maunsell Green livery

K1002 Set number 373 in SR unlined Malachite Green livery

K1003 Set number 363 in BR Crimson livery

K1004 Set number 373 in BR (SR) Green livery

 

Each twin pack will contain the Driving Brake Composite (which was downgraded to Driving Brake Third during 1939) and Third coach and will be priced at £99.99.  This price is valid for pre-orders only and will rise once the models arrive into stock.

 

Kernow Model Rail Centre Managing Director Chris Trerise said "It has been a frustrating couple of years where not much has happened.  The changes we made last year to work directly with the factory in conjunction with Dave Jones of DJ Models have meant every single outstanding project has come on in leaps and bounds!"

 

Further information is available at our dedicated web page

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/page/66/LSWR_Gate_Stock

[Ozexpatriate]

It's nice to see the material progress on this project.

 

Thanks for sharing these Andy.

[brianusa]

Ah Turnchapel -  Gateway to Jennycliff!  That was the best ten minute train ride; from Friary past 72D in its forlorn state, over Iron Bridge, turn right at Plymstock, past Oreston and over the Hooe Lake swing bridge.. All that railwayana in such a short trip.  Much better than the P & O boats!!

 

Someone must have modelled this already or should do now that authentic stock is at hand!

 

Brian.

[2ManySpams]

No no no, stop tempting me back to 4mm.

[The Stationmaster]

No no no, stop tempting me back to 4mm.

Treneglos will live!!!

[Ronny]

Great news!!

 

Got my order in for the Maunsells. If original LSWR livery was on offer, I'd get at least another couple sets.

[Graham_Muz]

Ronny

LSWR livery is not offered as they are based on the Southern Versions that were formed from ex LSWR stock in the early 1930's with the then standard SR 4 window style front and air rather wire and pulley control. In original LSWR condition they had a 3 window front as per the image below.


I am not convinced that such a variant would result in enough sales to cover the additional tooling costs (as there are many other details differences in addition to just the front ends).

Kernow should be congratulated as they have already committed to three different sets of tooling due to the fact that in addition to the already mentioned sheet plaiting applied to set 373 in later life, the same set prior to plating also differed from sets 363 and 374 in details at the coach inner ends, that has also been incorporated within the tooling.

 

For those interested and trying to spot those differences larger versions of the CADs can be found on my own blog here.

[Ronny]

Thanks a lot Graham for a great reply.

 

Not sure about the market for pre-grouping but I do know that pre-grouping liveried locomotives sell like hot cakes. You have to be darned quick before they sell out. See Bachmann's C class for example.

[autocoach]

Now the CADS are signed off by the developers and Kernow,what is the rest of the estimated timeline for the stages of bringing this to the retail sales point? Maybe a Gantt chart for the estimated ranges for each major phase or milestone would work to visualize/illustrate the rest of the go to production process.

Edited September 6, 2014 by autocoach

[DJM Dave]

The first thing to go out of the window when you engage the enemy is the plan!

In all honesty a Gantt chart won't help.

 

It will be ready and released when it's ready, not when it's predicted I'm afraid.

Lots of hurdles yet, tooling, EP, tooling, EP, deco, deco revisions, manufacture, shipping, and apart from the last one ( 28 days), you can't guarantee the rest. To guess is folly, which is why I won't personally do that, as there's too much to go wrong, drag, or need changes/modifications.

 

Sorry if it sounds negative, I'm just trying to be a realist. I'm sure you'd rather I said 'I don't know' than give you an un substantiated guess, as this is exactly what it would be at this point.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Big James]

Been waiting a long tine for these and I'm prepared to wait even longer. They are looking really nice now. Might even pre-order a second set in BR(SR) green. Already got the BR(SR) crimson set on pre- order.

 

Big James

[Mallard60022]

Ah Turnchapel -  Gateway to Jennycliff!  That was the best ten minute train ride; from Friary past 72D in its forlorn state, over Iron Bridge, turn right at Plymstock, past Oreston and over the Hooe Lake swing bridge.. All that railwayana in such a short trip.  Much better than the P & O boats!!

 

Someone must have modelled this already or should do now that authentic stock is at hand!

 

Brian.

I remember seeing the Gate Stock at Devonport Kings Road just the once after school. Probably late 1958. I was catching the train from K's Rd to North Road to get home to Peverell; Brian will understand why that was not logical! However, the train was hauled by a T9 at that time, brilliant short trip...........envious Spams?

Phil