Kernow commission ex LSWR Gate Stock Pull Push Sets

[Oldddudders]

Very reassuring, and I am sure the mistake will be corrected; I think we would all prefer there to be no 'Stepgate' or 'Gategate'.  Still, it might have been better had the Kernow's site, which does not qualify the pictures with your explanation, not published pictures of the models apparently assembled by a blindfolded man holding the instructions upside down.  Clearly the underframe detail does already include the steps, just not quite where you'd expect them! Doesn't give a great impression, to be frank.

 

What the site does say, very explicitly, is that Graham Muz and Mike King are involved. It is implausible that these two will let anything of substance slip. 

 

And would you have been quite so sniffy about the samples if one set had been in LSWR livery? 

[PaulRhB]

it might have been better had the Kernow's site, which does not qualify the pictures with your explanation, .

Er did you read

"The first livery samples were received on 17th March 2017 and are currently being checked."

 

Livery samples often have missing or incorrect detail as they are applied to test shots that might be different versions.

[Edwardian]

What the site does say, very explicitly, is that Graham Muz and Mike King are involved. It is implausible that these two will let anything of substance slip. 

 

And would you have been quite so sniffy about the samples if one set had been in LSWR livery? 

 

Well, yes, I do have a slight head-cold, but I can at least reassure you that I would have been equally incredulous had the samples been in LSWR livery, not least because the tooling is only good for 1933 onward.

 

It was very noticeable on the Kernow web-page that Graham Muz and Mike King are involved, which gives the rather unfortunate impression that they share responsibility for the comically misplaced steps.

 

It is good to know this mésalliance twixt body and underframe will be corrected, however, it is dangerous to make assumptions concerning what is merely a sample and what you are going to end up with; I had assumed that the pictures of the Hattons 14XX with the unfinished handrails and missing ashpan must be of mere samples with these matters still to be corrected.  So, it goes to show you never can tell ...

[Graham_Muz]

The steps are not 'comically misplaced' it is simply the fact that the bodies on these samples have been assembled the wrong way around on the chassis, which I accept is annoying, but not the purpose of these particular sample as part of the overall development process as it is to review the livery application.

The pictures of the main EP samples on the same pages on the Kernow website have been duly assembled correctly

[woodenhead]

I don't think I will be cancelling my pre-order over this

 

Can't be far away now, I hope the livery samples get the sign off, I've a couple of push/pull locos with nothing to push.

[Graham_Muz]

I think we all agree that hopefully production is not to far off, depenmding on available production slots, there are a few corrections to be made to these livery samples which are in the process of being fed back.

[Strathwood]

The first livery samples have arrived today, as yet unchecked but images now on the Kernow website

 

K1001 Set 374 SR Lined Olive http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/35799/K1001-DJ-Models-1914-LSWR-Push-Pull-Gate-Set-number-374

K1002 Set 373 SR Malachite http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/35803/K1002-DJ-Models-1914-LSWR-Push-Pull-Gate-Set-number-373

K1003 Set 363 BR lined Crimson http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/35805/K1003-DJ-Models-1914-LSWR-Push-Pull-Gate-Set-number-363

K1004 Set 373 BR Green (plated) http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/35804/K1004-DJ-Models-1914-LSWR-Push-Pull-Gate-Set-number-373

For clarity as to the "potential" for these fine looking models, aside from one or two branches in Cornwall during the all too short BR era where else could these be seen. To start the ball rolling I have seen shots of them on the Kenny Belle of all places with both H Class and M7 class doing the business, sorry Chris no Pull/Push O2s at the London end.

 

Kevin

[Graham_Muz]

For clarity as to the "potential" for these fine looking models, aside from one or two branches in Cornwall during the all too short BR era where else could these be seen.

Kevin

 

As per my Post 211 on this thread

 

The information I had on allocations and usage of the sets is as follows:

 

Seaton – Seaton Junction

Yeovil Town – Yeovil Junction (363, 373)

Lee-on-the-Solent – Fareham (374 up to 1930)

Ascot – Guildford (374)

Farnham – Guildford (374)

Bordon – Guildford (373)

Plymouth – Turnchapel (363, 373, 374)

Plymouth – St Budeaux – Tavistock (including Bere Alston - Callington non pull push mode) (363, 373, 374)

They saw railtour use during the 1950’s and have been recorded at Plymouth, Plymstock, Callington, Turnchaple, Exteter, Yeovil, Salisbury, Bisley, Bournemouth, Poole, and Swanage. 

 

[Big James]

I have the the Beattie well tank and the Adams O2 so I have faith in the gatestock. This is the first pre-grouping coach I think. So if this sells well we might get more pre-grouping stuff out of this.

 

Big james

[phil-b259]

I have the the Beattie well tank and the Adams O2 so I have faith in the gatestock. This is the first pre-grouping coach I think. So if this sells well we might get more pre-grouping stuff out of this.

 

Big james

 

I would be a bit careful about describing the gate stock as 'pre-grouping' because the LSWR originals were quite heavily modified by the SR and I don't believe the Kernow tooling allows for them to be released in their 'as built' condition.

[Dunsignalling]

I have the the Beattie well tank and the Adams O2 so I have faith in the gatestock. This is the first pre-grouping coach I think. So if this sells well we might get more pre-grouping stuff out of this.

 

Big james

As I understand it, the Southern Railway fitted different driving cab ends c.1933 and may have made other modifications so these won't be truly pre-grouping.

 

That's why they are only being offered in SR and BR liveries.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

As per my Post 211 on this thread

 

The information I had on allocations and usage of the sets is as follows:

 

Seaton – Seaton Junction

Yeovil Town – Yeovil Junction (363, 373)

Lee-on-the-Solent – Fareham (374 up to 1930)

Ascot – Guildford (374)

Farnham – Guildford (374)

Bordon – Guildford (373)

Plymouth – Turnchapel (363, 373, 374)

Plymouth – St Budeaux – Tavistock (including Bere Alston - Callington non pull push mode) (363, 373, 374)

They saw railtour use during the 1950’s and have been recorded at Plymouth, Plymstock, Callington, Turnchaple, Exteter, Yeovil, Salisbury, Bisley, Bournemouth, Poole, and Swanage. 

 

Set 373 also turned up at Lyme Regis in conjunction with a railtour, and may have acted as the branch set for a few days thereafter.

 

I've not been able to confirm the latter but there is a published photo of it at Lyme Regis whilst taking part in the railtour.

 

I'll post a reference as soon as I find/remember in which of my books it appears.

 

John

Edited March 21, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Strathwood]

As per my Post 211 on this thread

 

The information I had on allocations and usage of the sets is as follows:

 

Seaton – Seaton Junction

Yeovil Town – Yeovil Junction (363, 373)

Lee-on-the-Solent – Fareham (374 up to 1930)

Ascot – Guildford (374)

Farnham – Guildford (374)

Bordon – Guildford (373)

Plymouth – Turnchapel (363, 373, 374)

Plymouth – St Budeaux – Tavistock (including Bere Alston - Callington non pull push mode) (363, 373, 374)

They saw railtour use during the 1950’s and have been recorded at Plymouth, Plymstock, Callington, Turnchaple, Exteter, Yeovil, Salisbury, Bisley, Bournemouth, Poole, and Swanage. 

 

Thanks Graham, sadly I lost interest in reading back through so many pages of nit picking and waffle to get to the meat, well done thinking positive works.

 

Kevin

[Fat Lieutenant]

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/117/LSWR_Gate_Stock

 

In colour.  All very pretty, but I wonder if the passengers will be issued with portable ladders, or, perhaps, with parachutes?

 

Doesn't anyone check anything before going public these days?!? 

 

Well, apart from The Donald, who clearly doesn't.

 

Classic!

 

And 24 hours before anyone noticed  !

 

Still, I'm glad Graham Muz admitted that it had been wrongly assembled (presumably by that blindfolded man with the upside down instructions) and was simply an annoying gaff (which I think was more or less all that was being pointed out).  

 

Attention to detail, Boys, that's what it's all about!

 

Still, now we've had our laugh, back to awaiting further progress with interest.

[rembrow]

Classic!

 

And 24 hours before anyone noticed  !

 

Still, I'm glad Graham Muz admitted that it had been wrongly assembled (presumably by that blindfolded man with the upside down instructions) and was simply an annoying gaff (which I think was more or less all that was being pointed out).  

 

Attention to detail, Boys, that's what it's all about!

 

Still, now we've had our laugh, back to awaiting further progress with interest.

 

No, Probably a number of us assumed that the decoration samples wouldn't always have accurate models for the livery or prototype, as this has been covered before in other threads.

[Dunsignalling]

No, Probably a number of us assumed that the decoration samples wouldn't always have accurate models for the livery or prototype, as this has been covered before in other threads.

Does a livery sample for a coach even need to have a chassis?

 

Edit: Of course; to stop the interior falling out...........

 

John

Edited March 21, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Butler Henderson]

There are some very scathing comments on Model Rail Forum over the latest images.

[Dunsignalling]

There are some very scathing comments on Model Rail Forum over the latest images.

Though, it has to be said, all in the one post. The thread seems to have been otherwise dormant since 2011.

 

John

[woodenhead]

I wondered where he was now and there he is!!

[Ryde-on-time]

There are some very scathing comments on Model Rail Forum over the latest images.

A typical anti Dave Jones associated product rant by Adrian Swain. Considering his involvement with the hobby I am sure he knows full well what a 'livery sample' is but that doesn't seem to get in the way of him slagging off aspects of the models (as he so obviously enjoys). If he took the trouble to spend a few seconds checking the Kernow website pages he could see that the previous unlivered samples were correctly assembled and detailed

Edited March 21, 2017 by Ryde-on-time

[Oldddudders]

A typical anti Dave Jones associated product rant by Adrian Swain. Considering his involvement with the hobby I am sure he knows full well what a 'livery sample' is but that doesn't seem to get in the way of him slagging off aspects of the models (as he so obviously enjoys). If he took the trouble to spend a few seconds checking the Kernow website pages he could see that the previous unlivered samples were correctly assembled and detailed

 

The chap used to pull the same stunt on RMweb. He does so no more. Why a former manufacturer of reputable products has become so embittered about his present day counterparts and their widely-praised output is a puzzle. In the meantime one or two others have taken up the sniping cudgels on his behalf. Constructive criticism is one thing, but......

[NHY 581]

Let's just see shall we.....

 

These have such character I am sure they will not disappoint. I'm looking forward to mine...

 

 

Rob.

[Spannerman]

The samples are looking good whilst I'm glad I ordered the lined pair I'm very tempted by the malachite set as well.

 

Nik

[Mad Carew Too]

Well, like it or not, the steps in the new pictures are misaligned, and, I'm afraid, I too found the effect comic!

 

I am sure it was a simple mistake, easily rectified, and irrelevant to whatever accuracy merits or demerits the models might have upon release, but I am bound to agree with the point that it is probably best to check these things before posting point of sale pictures intended to entice!

 

An interesting link was posted to a critique on the Model rail forum.  I followed it.  I note the author has been "rubbished" as a result, but I also note that, if you strip away his negative tone, a number of accuracy points are raised.  These may or may not hold water, and they may or may not have been amended by Graham Muz and his team in the intervening period.  What I don't think does us credit is to discredit the points raised by attacking the man who posted them, instead of having an answer to these points.

 

It is really not good enough, I feel, to dismiss every query or concern over accuracy as negative whinging, rather than deal with the points, and, here, I fear that distrust of Mr Swain's motives has led people to dismiss his points out of hand.  They may, or may not, have some merit. 

 

Again, and we had all this over Oxford's Dean Goods, people need to be a bit more honest.  It seems odd, to me, that there should be so much resistance to feedback that is concerned with ensuring that a RTR release is as accurate as it reasonably can be, and that avoidable and unnecessary mistakes are avoided.  Logically, it seems to me, that to object to such feedback, one must be of the view that "wow, that's so pretty, and, if it's pretty enough, the accuracy can hang!".  Well, that is certainly a point of view, and I respect that.  What I don't see is much respect for the view that holds "hang on, chaps, if we could just avoid this inaccuracy or that, this good model could be a great one".  Sadly, I don't see much respect on RMWeb for the people who hold that view, either.

 

Not for the first time I express the wish that temperatures do not rise.  

[woodenhead]

Mr Swain was welcomed when he first joined RMWeb but his negativity of just about everything and everyone eventually saw him leave.

 

On the Model Rail Forum there is another post of his directed at a modeller berating his positioning of brake levers and such like which i think was quite rude.

 

He does have information to offer, but unfortunately he seems to like his own voice a tad too much and doesn't care who he upsets.

 

Anyway back on topic, still intend to complete my pre-order for these items, I have enough Kernow and DJM stuff now to trust them on the final product.