The changing face of Bristol

[Joseph_Pestell]

City centre to the airport? How is that going to work, given that the city is close to sea level and the airport is 620ft above that?

 

What would the gradient of that underground line be?

No problem. One of the Lyon Metro lines is rack operated.

[Coppercap]

I am entirely in favour of a Metro scheme for Bristol. But underground!

 

Not affordable and mostly unnecessary. Even with some poorly thought out developments which have blocked former rail routes, there is plenty of scope for a metro to run above ground. It will involve some demolition but that will still be way cheaper than a lot of tunneling and the extra costs of stations below ground.

Ė

Edit (having taken a look at Google Earth): The line northwards is the most difficult. The lines to Airport and Emerson's Green can easily be overground, the latter mostly on the former Midland. Cheaper to build a replacement bike path than tunnel a railway.

Bristol and South Gloucestershire missed the chance for a tram system (or at least, the start of a system) when they couldn't agree on termini and routes.

Yes, building it underground and for relatively short distances in a hilly area is ridiculous. It's not going to solve any transport issues, IMO.

I don't think Sustrans and the cycling lobby will be very keen on losing their right of way on the old Midland line and it being put back to its proper use.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Coppercap

[Vanders]

I don't think Sustrans and the cycling lobby will be very keen on losing their right of way on the old Midland line and it being put back to its proper use.

They already lost a big chunk of the original route when the A4174 was built between Warmley & Mangotsfield. Sustrans have less sway than you might think. Even the small handful of Green councilors would struggle to argue against an electrically powered public transport scheme.

[Coppercap]

They already lost a big chunk of the original route when the A4174 was built between Warmley & Mangotsfield. Sustrans have less sway than you might think. Even the small handful of Green councilors would struggle to argue against an electrically powered public transport scheme.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that...but you can imagine the uproar of the (relatively) few people who currently use the route for whatever use, cycling, walking, dog toilet...they'd probably want it designated 'village green' to try and stop losing it! (Like City's proposed new stadium! )

[40F]

I like the proposed Park and Ride at Warmley. The trouble is that Warmley is in South Gloucestershire and Marvin Rees is the mayor for The City and county of Bristol. Marvin Rees has not got a clue and is worse than Ferguson his predecessor . 

[Coppercap]

I like the proposed Park and Ride at Warmley. The trouble is that Warmley is in South Gloucestershire and Marvin Rees is the mayor for The City and county of Bristol. Marvin Rees has not got a clue and is worse than Ferguson his predecessor .

 

It took a long time before the completed Long Ashton P&R opened due to disagreements between the councils - the site's in North Somerset, but the buses were subsidised by Bristol City Council. At least SGC and BCC come under the new 'Metro mayor' (not the City mayor, Marvin), so there might be more cooperation. North Somerset voted not to join the Metro mayor area.

[PatB]

Bristol and South Gloucestershire missed the chance for a tram system (or at least, the start of a system) when they couldn't agree on termini and routes.

Yes, building it underground and for relatively short distances in a hilly area is ridiculous. It's not going to solve any transport issues, IMO.

I don't think Sustrans and the cycling lobby will be very keen on losing their right of way on the old Midland line and it being put back to its proper use.

 

Generally speaking I would prefer to retrieve a toddler's arm from a rabid rottweiler than attempt to wrest any privilege or right of way from the likes of Cyclebag or their heirs and successors.

[Keith George]

Generally speaking I would prefer to retrieve a toddler's arm from a rabid rottweiler than attempt to wrest any privilege or right of way from the likes of Cyclebag or their heirs and successors.

 

As for Cyclebag or whatever they are called, I would have thought that the most important job they could do would be to stop their followers ignoring red traffic lights.!.

 

Keith

[Killybegs]

Reading stuff like this makes me glad I don't live/work near Bristol anymore....

For all its (political) shortcomings, I still think my home town is a great city!

[rodent279]

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that...but you can imagine the uproar of the (relatively) few people who currently use the route for whatever use, cycling, walking, dog toilet...they'd probably want it designated 'village green' to try and stop losing it! (Like City's proposed new stadium! )

Quite a lot of people use it actually, for commuting between Warmley & Filton/Abbeywood/Parkway. The cycle path was re-routed onto a new formation when the A4174 was built. I wasn't living here then, so I'm not sure that section of line was even in use as a cycle path befopre the ring road was built.

 

As for Sustrans/Cyclebag etc-I can't see them having any resonable objection, as long as a sensible segregated cycle route is proposed. I can't see why a shared use route would not be possible, like further along where the AVR & cycle path happily co-exist.

 

People don't like change, so they need to be brought round to see the benefits, not bullied or cajoled into it.

[jjb1970]

As a cyclist myself I cringe at some of the things said by organised cycling groups (like other such organisations they tend to attract a vociferous fringe that are hardly representative of all the people they claim to act for) but I also don't see them as being the problem in transport planning.

[Vanders]

Quite a lot of people use it actually, for commuting between Warmley & Filton/Abbeywood/Parkway. The cycle path was re-routed onto a new formation when the A4174 was built. I wasn't living here then, so I'm not sure that section of line was even in use as a cycle path befopre the ring road was built.

It was, and was one of the nicer sections of the cyclepath through a deep cutting and under a very nice high 3 arch bridge, through Siston Common. The replacement route took a lovely flat, wide, cycle way and replaced it with an awful narrow path complete with steep gradients and 90 degree turns. I know many people who live in & south of Warmley stopped using the cycle path north beyond Warmley after the change, as it's just not very nice to use.

 

I like the proposed Park and Ride at Warmley. The trouble is that Warmley is in South Gloucestershire and Marvin Rees is the mayor for The City and county of Bristol. Marvin Rees has not got a clue and is worse than Ferguson his predecessor . 

Do you have a link to the proposals? There's a brand new one just opened at Lyde Green just up the A4174 so I'm not sure what another a few miles away is intended to do!

[Coppercap]

As for Sustrans/Cyclebag etc-I can't see them having any resonable objection, as long as a sensible segregated cycle route is proposed. I can't see why a shared use route would not be possible, like further along where the AVR & cycle path happily co-exist.

 

For a tram (or whatever) system to provide a decent service interval that people would then make good use of it, I would think double track would be needed. Would there be enough room fit that plus a cycleway/footpath within the old formation?

[40F]

It was, and was one of the nicer sections of the cyclepath through a deep cutting and under a very nice high 3 arch bridge, through Siston Common. The replacement route took a lovely flat, wide, cycle way and replaced it with an awful narrow path complete with steep gradients and 90 degree turns. I know many people who live in & south of Warmley stopped using the cycle path north beyond Warmley after the change, as it's just not very nice to use.

 

Do you have a link to the proposals? There's a brand new one just opened at Lyde Green just up the A4174 so I'm not sure what another a few miles away is intended to do!

 

 

It was on Points West last Thursday 

[40F]

It took a long time before the completed Long Ashton P&R opened due to disagreements between the councils - the site's in North Somerset, but the buses were subsidised by Bristol City Council. At least SGC and BCC come under the new 'Metro mayor' (not the City mayor, Marvin), so there might be more cooperation. North Somerset voted not to join the Metro mayor area.

 

 

Two posts that could cheerfully be discontinued. When Avon was disbanded Bristol should have included Bradley Stoke, Emersons Green and Kingswood and the remaining bits handed back to the old counties 

[Coppercap]

Two posts that could cheerfully be discontinued. When Avon was disbanded Bristol should have included Bradley Stoke, Emersons Green and Kingswood and the remaining bits handed back to the old counties

 

Looking at the map, it would seem logical to merge those built-up areas of South Glos adjacent to Bristol, such as Sadly Broke, Kingswood etc to Bristol, but I wouldn't be surprised if, given a choice, the voters would choose that not to happen. People I know in that area like Bristol, but don't want to be governed by it. I live in a rural part of South Glos, and while Bristol has designs on much of it for expansion, I think it more likely it would prefer to revert to Gloucestershire if South Glos were split up, especially as it would no longer be viable without the built up areas being part of it.

 

The 'Metro Mayor' is a new post. I couldn't vote in one election (to create a city mayor) and I didn't vote in the other election to choose a Metro mayor (we werent given a choice as to whether we wanted one or not, the local councils decided that themselves). I can't see the point of either.

[Joseph_Pestell]

For a tram (or whatever) system to provide a decent service interval that people would then make good use of it, I would think double track would be needed. Would there be enough room fit that plus a cycleway/footpath within the old formation?

 

For the most part, no. That's why I suggested that a new cycle path would need to be created. But a new cycle path has to be a lot cheaper than putting a new railway underground.

 

While looking at Google Earth yesterday, I checked out the route of the line to Whitchurch. That too is mostly available without too much difficult engineering. A single track route originally but there are places e.g. alongside Tesco where a loop could be included.

[rodent279]

It was, and was one of the nicer sections of the cyclepath through a deep cutting and under a very nice high 3 arch bridge, through Siston Common. The replacement route took a lovely flat, wide, cycle way and replaced it with an awful narrow path complete with steep gradients and 90 degree turns. I know many people who live in & south of Warmley stopped using the cycle path north beyond Warmley after the change, as it's just not very nice to use.

Yes, the section between Warmley & south of Siston where it rejoins the old trackbed is not the best bit, I agree.

[rodent279]

Two posts that could cheerfully be discontinued. When Avon was disbanded Bristol should have included Bradley Stoke, Emersons Green and Kingswood and the remaining bits handed back to the old counties 

To all intents and purposes, those areas are effectively in Bristol. The stupidity of it is that I live in Downend, just on the border with Fishponds. I am in Bristol by the width of a street. My nearest Sort It tip is Mangotsfield, but as a Bristol council tax payer, I have to go into the city to St Phillips, much less convenient, further away and more congested. I suspect both are managed by the same company, and the waste goes to the same landfill & recycling plants!

 

I wonder, going OT slightly, & referencing the Reversing Beeching topic elsewhere, whether this fragmentation is partially responsible for the slower progress in reopening/building new railways in England, compared to Scotland/Wales?

[Keith George]

I live on the Bristol side of the border , but my postal address is Kingswood.

As far as I am concerned Kingswood is Bristol.

What a shambles.!

 

Keith

[Killybegs]

For the most part, no. That's why I suggested that a new cycle path would need to be created. But a new cycle path has to be a lot cheaper than putting a new railway underground.

 

While looking at Google Earth yesterday, I checked out the route of the line to Whitchurch. That too is mostly available without too much difficult engineering. A single track route originally but there are places e.g. alongside Tesco where a loop could be included.

 

Also a cycle route!

[royaloak]

I don't think Sustrans and the cycling lobby will be very keen on losing their right of way on the old Midland line and it being put back to its proper use.

I wouldnt worry about Sustrans too much, I remember a number of years ago they bought a route for the regulation one pound, but before they could start developing it the railway needed to buy it back, so Sustrans tried to charge them full market valley (several millions).

When it was pointed out that they would then be charged full market value for any future routes they conceded defeat and sold it back for the regulation one pound.

[Edwin_m]

I wonder, going OT slightly, & referencing the Reversing Beeching topic elsewhere, whether this fragmentation is partially responsible for the slower progress in reopening/building new railways in England, compared to Scotland/Wales?

Certainly a big downer for some English schemes, including the tramway proposal of 20 years ago from the city centre out to Bradley Stoke and surroundings.  The two councils were often at loggerheads particularly when a branch to Cribbs Causeway was suggested. 

 

It is possible to achieve things in an area with relatively fragmented local government, the best example probably being Greater Manchester where all the authorities got behind Metrolink despite some having control by different political parties and some not benefiting from it. 

[barrowroad]

Bristol and the surrounding authorities have a very poor track record [ no pun intended] when it comes to investment in transport. Being a Bristol lad myself  I have been extremely disappointed by local politicians inability to deliver any effective transport system for the area over the past forty years. Others areas; Manchester, Sheffield; Nottingham; Croydon and Birmingham have good light rail systems. Bristol could have had one but for the indecision and ineptitude of local politicians. Even the latest guided bus Metrolink has yet to get up and running.

[talisman56]

As for Cyclebag or whatever they are called, I would have thought that the most important job they could do would be to stop their followers ignoring red traffic lights.!.

 

Keith

 

...and going the wrong way down one-way streets...

 

or

 

...riding on the pavement where there is not a designated cycle path...