br-nse-fan Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Hi All I'm sure this has been asked before.. and pardon me if it's staring me in the face.. But I am interested in building some GWR coaches to add to my fleet of existing coaches. I am mostly looking for Toplight and 70' coaches, but anything right now would be good as a start. I've never worked with brass and would prefer to avoid it if possible, as I've never worked with it before and would hate to totally botch it up. I'm also not interested in the coaches with pre-printed sides (PC Models, ect). If possible.. does anyone make plastic coaches? I've seen the Slaters, but I don't want Clerestory stock. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 There are toplight coaches in the Slaters range as well as clerestories. I have never built one as, sadly, they had gone from active service by the late 50s/early 60s but they are well regarded. I would suggest reading the chapter in "The 4mm Coach" by Stephen Williams and the article in MRJ66 by Guy Williams before you decide whether to do one yourself. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted December 6, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2011 The slatters range appears to be in transition to new owners cooper craft Though when I last checked the range wasn't shown on either website Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I would suggest a Slaters (now Coopercraft) brake third (the roof fits better for some reason), combined with some aftermarket bogies. The Slaters bogies are works of art but a bit problematic as regards their running qualities... Another option is to overlay brass sides onto RTR plastic coaches. I've done a few based on the Hornby Colletts, the Hornby/Airfix Centenaries, and the Bachmann/Mainline Colletts. You do have to fettle Comet sides to fit both the Colletts due to their minor discrepancies in length. Examples of simple ones I've done are a C54 all-third on a Hornby Collett, an E153 BCK on a Bachmann Collett, and a C69 all-third on a Centenary. Examples (and a discussion of Slaters bogies) here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28388-adrians-coach-works/ Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I would like to offer another suggestion in the BSL/Phoenix coaches. I appreciate that not all modellers like alluminium but as a first coach attempt there is very little to go wrong, they are all glue construction and they crop up quite regularly at very reasonable prices. The two below were bought for £4 each from an exhibition. I recently bought 2x H26 for £10. Shown are the older ones with a wooden roof that are fine provided you prime with PVA and clean up with sandpaper. Later kits have a preformed aluminium roof. There are no bogies or underframes but these can be purchased from 247 and again can be glue assembled. Yes doors need scribing - I use a Stanley knife and T square. Hinges are from microstrip. I know others prefer etched hinges but drilling and soldering 60 hinges into a C46 is time consuming and boring. I can hinge an entire side in less than15 mins. Painting is straight forward provided you prime properly. I use Halfords or similar car primer and leave it a week to harden in the airing cupboard. This also protects the hinges - I havent lost any yet through handling. I started my coach building with BSL and within a short period of time I had learnt enough of basic coach construction to tackle some of the more exotic brass kits. As an endorsement, last month, I was watching trains of them running on the Vale scene at Pendon. Just another suggestion Good luck Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I would like to offer another suggestion in the BSL/Phoenix coaches. I appreciate that not all modellers like alluminium but as a first coach attempt there is very little to go wrong, they are all glue construction and they crop up quite regularly at very reasonable prices. The two below were bought for £4 each from an exhibition. I recently bought 2x H26 for £10. Shown are the older ones with a wooden roof that are fine provided you prime with PVA and clean up with sandpaper. Later kits have a preformed aluminium roof. There are no bogies or underframes but these can be purchased from 247 and again can be glue assembled. Yes doors need scribing - I use a Stanley knife and T square. Hinges are from microstrip. I know others prefer etched hinges but drilling and soldering 60 hinges into a C46 is time consuming and boring. I can hinge an entire side in less than15 mins. Painting is straight forward provided you prime properly. I use Halfords or similar car primer and leave it a week to harden in the airing cupboard. This also protects the hinges - I havent lost any yet through handling. I started my coach building with BSL and within a short period of time I had learnt enough of basic coach construction to tackle some of the more exotic brass kits. As an endorsement, last month, I was watching trains of them running on the Vale scene at Pendon. Just another suggestion Good luck Mike Wiltshire I actually picked up a couple of these coaches (LNER panelled suburban stock) a little while ago on eBay.. but have never got any further than reading the instructions, and seeing that all the panelling needs to be manually applied with plastic strips. The coaches I have include the aluminum roof and possibly bogies... although... I could be thinking of a different kit I picked up. Not sure if I want to bother going through the motions on this kits as the LNER is not what I model.. maybe flip them for some GWR ones instead, as they are what I am interested in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I would second Mikes suggestion, The LNER coaches will sell very well on Ebay. Good clear photo and descriprion and they will sell well, the GWR coaches are far more common but still fetch good prices and are much easier to build as all you have to do is scribe in the doors and fit door knobs and grab handles and perhapps hinges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Perhaps if there is renewed interest in the old BSL/Phoenix range the current owners will be more inclined to supply them instead of just flogging catalogues. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Perhaps if there is renewed interest in the old BSL/Phoenix range the current owners will be more inclined to supply them instead of just flogging catalogues. Chris There I agree. It would be easier for me to suggest these kits if you could actually purchase one. Trolling e-bay or model railway shows for one is not really a useful solution. I've found exactly 2 in 10 years of trolling shows in Canada - which is where the OP is located. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted December 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2011 My first coaches (other than a set of Ratio clerestories) were a couple of Slaters toplights but I'd echo Adrian's sentiments about the bogies. I couldn't get them to work reliably in 00; I've no idea how people in EM and P4 get on with them. Fortunately cast bogies are available but this obviously adds to the cost of the build. And yes, the etched sides onto RTR bodies is a good way of building some variety into the fleet as well; I have done a couple of Centenary restaurant cars this way and have another Centenary saloon in the works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 There I agree. It would be easier for me to suggest these kits if you could actually purchase one. Trolling e-bay or model railway shows for one is not really a useful solution. I've found exactly 2 in 10 years of trolling shows in Canada - which is where the OP is located. Adrian A friend of mine made contact at the recent Southampton show and received no positive response as to making the range fully available. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The Slaters bogies could work in P4 I guess but having looked at the set i've got I've decided its too much effort to bother compared to other alternatives! The Slaters Toplight is probably the only kit that really fits your bill (i'd count the BSL range an an ex-range unless you find one 2nd hand) so you'll have to see if the new owner will sell you one without bogies and possibly look at something from Comet or elsewhere for new bogies? There have been a couple of people complaining on here about delivery from Cooper Craft though.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 The Slaters bogies could work in P4 I guess but having looked at the set i've got I've decided its too much effort to bother compared to other alternatives! The Slaters Toplight is probably the only kit that really fits your bill (i'd count the BSL range an an ex-range unless you find one 2nd hand) so you'll have to see if the new owner will sell you one without bogies and possibly look at something from Comet or elsewhere for new bogies? There have been a couple of people complaining on here about delivery from Cooper Craft though.. I've emailed Cooper Craft about the avaliability of the ex-Slaters coaches but have yet to recieve a reply. Other than Slaters/CC... did or does anyone else make plastic GWR bogie coaches? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I've emailed Cooper Craft about the avaliability of the ex-Slaters coaches but have yet to recieve a reply. Other than Slaters/CC... did or does anyone else make plastic GWR bogie coaches? Thanks I have started to splice some Ratio 4 wheelers into bogie coaches, quite a simple job which I started on holiday. A brake 3rd and a compo from memory. Not 100% accurate but something different that looks the part and easy to do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Mailcoach (now Coopercraft) has a Monster (not a coach, but NPCS*) which is still available, and presumably at one time had some toplights (since Coopercraft still sells toplight end and floor kits as part of their spares). K's did some plastic coaches and NPCS in the distant past. *NPCS = Non-passenger coaching stock - 'brown' vehicles and full brakes Alternatively, you could build one or two of the Ratio LMS (ex LNWR) 50' coaches as they were seen on cross-country trains (in LMS livery). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebirduk Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I've emailed Cooper Craft about the avaliability of the ex-Slaters coaches but have yet to recieve a reply. Other than Slaters/CC... did or does anyone else make plastic GWR bogie coaches? Thanks From: PAUL DUNN <coopercraft@googlemail.com> Subject: Re: Slater's Coach Kit 4C09 Date: 10 December 2011 20:22:50 GMT To: Mike Spence <mike@firebird.co.uk> If you send the etching/castings back to me with a SAE I will swap them for you. I will have to check my stock level of the etchings and castings for the EM/S4 and Slater's will be sending on the remaining stock so it could be a few weeks before I can do it for you. Hi, According to the Slater's website you are now handling their 4mm range. I recently bought a Coach Kit 4C09 Dean Non-Corridor 1st/3rd Lavatory Composite Diagram E37 with 16.5mm bogie and need to swap it for EM/P4 version. Can you kindly advise as to procedure and any costs involved. I would also like a current catalogue by mail or email. Many thanks, Mike Spence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 From: PAUL DUNN <coopercraft@googlemail.com> Subject: Re: Slater's Coach Kit 4C09 Date: 10 December 2011 20:22:50 GMT To: Mike Spence <mike@firebird.co.uk> Mike Spence Maybe I just need to be more patient in waiting for a response I don't have access to personal email at work, so have not been able to check in a couple days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 presumably at one time had some toplights (since Coopercraft still sells toplight end and floor kits as part of their spares). Adrian Mailcoach/Coopercraft used to produce a K22 toplight full brake. It had clear moudled sides and you had to mask all the windows before painting. The American bogies used are still available (code BOGGWA @£3.00). I used a set under an Airfix siphon without any issues. Look out for Coopercraft's new diagram 04 six wheel siphon due for release next year if you are interested in plastic build GWR stock. Thread here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/44841-new-from-cooper-craft/ Regards Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 So I've been looking at all the various options.. and it looks like sides, instead of a complete kit, might be an option. A couple questions I have is that what RTR stock can be used as donor vehicles for the various sides? The possible donor coaches I have would be the following: 2 x Hornby Clestory Brake corridor 3 x Hornby Clestory Composite corridor 3 x Hornby/Airfx Centenary Brake 5 x Hornby/Airfix Centenary Composite 4 x Bachmann/Mainline Collett 'Sunshine' Brake 8 x Bachmann/Mainline Collett 'Sunshine' Composite I'm looking for one that would be a straight forward conversion to get my feet wet. A quick Google search turned up a couple of manufacturers who offer GWR coach sides. I'd like a 70', but since I don't have any donor coaches in that length, the above 60'ish coaches will have to do. Unfortunatly I don't know what the difference between the different sides are.. and what the scale length of the above coaches are.. so I don't know what ones will fit, ect.. The different makes I found are Comet, Frogmore, 247 Developments and Phoenix. On another note.. I just got a reply from Cooper Craft and they indicated that they do have the ex-Slaters GWR Clestory & Toplight coaches.. but they are not listed on their site until it is re-built. At almost $70 Cdn a coach (plus shipping, any import duties, time, effort and building materials).. I'll have to consider my options carefully. I just wish one of the RTR makers released some Toplights.. would make my life easier! If not Hornby or Bachmann... what about Dapol, Replica or one of the other 'smaller' guys? Ah well.. maybe I need to re-think my coaching wants and needs before I go too much further.... Thanks again all for all your help and info! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 The different makes I found are Comet, Frogmore, 247 Developments and Phoenix. Frogmore ONLY offer complete body kits. You can discard ends etc but at £25.00+ it is an expensive exercise. The window bollections are separate and need to be individually applied, or just ignore them and paint the base areas mahogany. BSL/Phoenix too only usually supply body kits, though as other threads show, attempting to buying anything direct from SRG, has proven difficult. The web site does offer any component separate but do not hold your breath. An addition to your list - Worsley Works is now offering some of it's 3mm in 4mm and has a nice selection of toplight and other GWR vehicles. http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_GWR.htm Other suppliers from the recent past to look out for second hand. A F Hammond had an extensive range of sides including both clerestory and steel sided TPO vehicles, special saloons, clerestory Royal train, topllight sleepers etc. Trevor Charlton also produced an extensive range in zinc of GWR vehicles including many less well known types (who else has ever made a 70ft Dreadnaught sleeping car?) Still around marketed by his widow, Carl Legg through his CPD range has highly detailed sides and ends only but at over £40.00 they are expensive. Bill Bedford has some sides in his list but personally I am totally confused as to what is available and from whom as there is some cross over with 'Mousa Models' Some of the sides are duplicates from other ranges and watch out for the confusion with digram numbers. The D126 illustrated clearly is not. within the site. http://www.mousa.biz/sides_gwr/gwr_sides.html The '2nd' list of Bill Bedford sides is here-well hidden - some of my friends failed to find it. http://www.mousa.biz/_downloads/Catalog4.pdf I have preached about them many times but I still maintain the aluminium based BSL/Phoenix is worth a go. For an rtr by the time you have prepared the donor coach you can have a BSL body glued up and assembled. My first GWR coach 'proper' was an attempt to produce an clerestory TPO L10 from the Bettabitz (showing my age) range now incorporated into 247 Developments. My second was a C54 from BSL. The C54 was assembled in a fraction of the time taken with the conversion and I did not receive the wrath of Mum for having plastic shavings all over the place. Recently, I must admit to cheating recently by using BSL sides from a complete kit with an Airfix Centenary body and underframe. The Comet sides are excellent with the window frames but soldering up the doors on brakes and diners and getting them straight is a pain (and I build brass coach kits all the time). Good luck Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 For the benefit of those who have tried emailing Paul at Coopercraft. I have just rung him and he said he has had trouble with the shop email. Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 So I've been looking at all the various options.. and it looks like sides, instead of a complete kit, might be an option. A couple questions I have is that what RTR stock can be used as donor vehicles for the various sides? The possible donor coaches I have would be the following: 2 x Hornby Clestory Brake corridor 3 x Hornby Clestory Composite corridor 247 Developments do the ex-Bettabitz sides for these. They have sides to match the existing mouldings for the C15 2nd/3rd composite and the D29 brake third, as well as a D40 brake second, a C14 non-corridor 2nd/3rd composite, an E39 brake tri-composite ('Falmouth Coupe'), an F9 slip coach, and an H2/7 restaurant (which, as far as I can tell, only represents one of those diagrams). There is also an L10 mail van which requires the coach to be shortened. 3 x Hornby/Airfx Centenary Brake 5 x Hornby/Airfix Centenary Composite The Comet sides for the C69 Third and H44 restaurant third will overlay the compo quite nicely - you can keep the ends and just overlay the main centre section. The opposite hand brake can overly the brake, but that (or the restaurant first and brake composite) require you to deal with the inset doors mid-coach. You need 3 thirds, an opposite-hand brake, a restaurant third, a restaurant first, and two brake compos (as well as the original compo and brake third) to make the original formation. 4 x Bachmann/Mainline Collett 'Sunshine' Brake 8 x Bachmann/Mainline Collett 'Sunshine' Composite Some of the Comet sides will overlay these with a little trimming or filling. These coaches scale out to about 60.5', so 61' sides need a bit of trimming (pick sides where there is space at the ends before the first door/window) and 60'sides will need a bit of filler. I have overlaid E153 sides on the brake compo - the interior matches almost exactly. I just wish one of the RTR makers released some Toplights.. would make my life easier! If not Hornby or Bachmann... what about Dapol, Replica or one of the other 'smaller' guys? The issue with toplights is that there were a number of different options - panelled sides like the Slaters kits, steel sides like the Frogmore ones, different patterns of toplights, different underframes... Examples of the overlays that I've done are here: http://www.rmweb.co....ns-coach-works/ Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Sorry to be a numpty, but are the aforementioned Slaters Toplights plastic bodied or brass? Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 are the aforementioned Slaters Toplights plastic bodied or brass? Cheers Plastic body with metal bogies. Regards Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 14, 2011 Another 'sides' option is to use an old Airfix B set to overlay a bow ended 60' prototype like the K40 full brake from Comet.This would be a nice easy taster at little cost to gain confidence on tackling a full blown kit at a later date.I would certainly not start with the Comet centenary's personally but build up to them over time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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