Best coach kit for a beginner?

[Adrian Wintle]

Another 'sides' option is to use an old Airfix B set to overlay a bow ended 60' prototype like the K40 full brake from Comet.This would be a nice easy taster at little cost to gain confidence on tackling a full blown kit at a later date.I would certainly not start with the Comet centenary's personally but build up to them over time.

 

Or sides onto the old Hornby Colletts, but the OP didn't list B-set or Hornby Collett coaches among his potential donors (and cheap donor coaches tend to be more difficult to come by over here).

 

The Centenary Third, Compo, and Restaurant Third overlays are no more difficult than any other overlay if you keep the inset ends from the donor coach and overlay the centre section. You might have to do some minor filling to clean up the joint where the end of the etch meets the inset, but it isn't a major issue. The coaches with inset doors mid coach (brake third, brake compo, restaurant first) are more problematic.

 

Adrian

[The Dorset Wanderer]

Definitely recommend Worsley Works- e-mail Allan and tell him what you need and he will be most helpful. Range is extensive, I have built several of his 3mm kits and they are excellent. If you want to adhere to existing Hornby etc coaches, the tumblehomes can be ready formed.

Steve

[br-nse-fan]

 

Or sides onto the old Hornby Colletts, but the OP didn't list B-set or Hornby Collett coaches among his potential donors (and cheap donor coaches tend to be more difficult to come by over here).

 

Adrian

 

I do actually have one of the B-set coaches.. not sure where it originally came from as I found it in a box of coaches that need flush windows installed... so I can add that to the list. The previously listed ones are donors as I have a failrly large quantity of them already.

 

I used to have a set of the Hornby Collett's, but they were sold off some time ago before I realized their hidden potential.

 

What really got me interested in coach modification was seeing the mods various people had done with the Hornby coaches to get some reasonable 70' models.

 

As Adrien indicated, anything 'cheap' usually has to come from a lucky find at a train show or from eBay. But, most of the 'cheap' ebay (is there such a thing?) stuff is only in the UK and the seller won't typically send oversea's. And, if they do.. shipping negates the whole 'cheap' aspect leaving us at almost new prices in most cases.

 

I'll be helping the MRI stand out at the GBTS show next year as I usually do... so hopefully someone there has coaches I can pick up to be used as donors, as well as re-stock my Hornby models.

 

I posted a want on in the classifieds section looking for the Hornby Collett's in the Hawksworth livery. I think they were only ever released in a train pack, so I am not expecting to find them easily.

 

Adrien.. you mentioned that Comet makes suitable sides for the Bachmann Collett's.. as a start, would a RH brake to go along with the LH (or vice versa) be a safe starting point?

[Rugd1022]

Plastic body with metal bogies.

 

Regards

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Thanks for that Mike, I wasn't even aware of these Slaters kits before they changed hands... anyway, nice to know

[Kits from Somerset]

First the Slater's coaches are in stock at Cooper Craft and will be on my web site when the rebuilding is finished.

 

The old Mailcoach K22 is an incomplete kit as there is no roof moulding for it now, and the ends are the wrong shape any way.

 

I am looking into having white metal bogies for the toplights but I will have to redo the instructions and as a two finger if I am lucky typist this will take a long time to do.

 

My reply to emails are a bit slow at this time of the year as people are placing orders one day and wanting them delivered the day before.

[Adrian Wintle]

Adrien.. you mentioned that Comet makes suitable sides for the Bachmann Collett's.. as a start, would a RH brake to go along with the LH (or vice versa) be a safe starting point?

 

The GWR had gotten away from having handed brakes by the time the later Colletts were built. My suggestion for a starting point would be an E153 brake compo or a C70, C73, C77, or C81 third (the Bachmann Colletts are C77s, but if you have a Replica or Bachmann version the Comet sides will correct the window heights - Mainline version is ok), as you shouldn't have to muck around with the interior or do very many changes to the roof or underframe. These will give different looking coaches with a minimum of effort.

 

If you don't mind rebuilding the interior, roof, and underframe you have a lot more options - the A20 or A22 first, D124 or D121 van thirds, E162 or E155 compos, H57 restaurant, or F24 slip. The only one I wouldn't recommend as an overlay is the D127 van third due to the large corridor window right at one end. Basically consider that the 61' sides are going to need around 2mm trimmed off them so the best idea is to pick diagrams with blank space at the ends.

 

Adrian

[Coach bogie]

Another 'sides' option is to use an old Airfix B set to overlay a bow ended 60' prototype like the K40 full brake from Comet.This would be a nice easy taster at little cost to gain confidence on tackling a full blown kit at a later date.I would certainly not start with the Comet centenary's personally but build up to them over time.

 

Here is one I did a few months back. It is not quite that straight forward. The Airfix/Hornby 'B' set body has no end steps, hand rails and the wrong buffers. You need to make the 10 footsteps (L section plasticard works fine), New buffers each end, Cut off, sand down ventilators and drill/glue in replacements, roof board braketc, end hand rails from wire, lamp brakets (mine are shaped flattened wire), light trucking at one end, guards foot step, V hangers, Dynamo and corridor connections. I left the battery boxes alone as they are integral with truss rods but the position is not correct. I should also change the bogies, but 247 were out of stock at the time. One of those jobs that I must get around to but will no doubt leave as is.

 

With the Comet sides there is no backing for the K40 style grab handles etc and requires scrap brass soldering in from behind (The Hammond K40 sides have the recess etched in minimising the work).

 

With all the cutting out or the original sides involved, I am not convinced that a assembling a complete kit is any more difficult.

 

You may wish to consider assembling any of Comets full brakes as a complete kit. K38 (Ocean Mails) or K42 have 'normal' door/grab handles. Personally I am not a fan of Comet bogies (they always look too wide to me) and always purchase Comet coaches less bogies and use 247 Developments. With only 3 major cast parts - (two sides and a center boss) I find them are more straightforward and can be assembled in the time it takes for the glue to set

 

Good luck

 

Mike Wiltshire

[gwrrob]

Thinking about it Mike I think you're right especially as I've built the K40 both ways as discussed.Theres no easy way to get started other than to jump in with both feet like I did with my first B set !

[br-nse-fan]

OK.. so.. after much consideration.. I think I am going to try my hand at a Comet coach.. with the assistance of the basic build service that is offered.

 

Question now..is what coach should I build?

 

I've already listed the stock I have. It was suggested a full brake / mail car would be a good starting point... but... the whole reason for my wanting to build/modify coaches was because of the 70' stock.

 

Perhaps I can do two? But not now...

 

So.. question time... what would be best suited to fit in, but provide variety with my existing stock of Centenaries, Collett Sunshine and (on order) Collett Bow-end stock? Preferably something that would have lasted to get the Hawksworth livery.

 

I've looked at the following:

 

W10 Full Brake (Ocean Mails)Bow end K38 57'

W13 Full Brake K42 57'

W17 Full Brake-Bow end K40 60'

 

W1 Corridor Third C46 70’

W3 Corridor Brake Third-Right hand D84 70’

 

Part of my consideration is in keeping costs down.. as much as I would love one of the 12 wheel restaurant cars, I want to keep my soldering costs as low as possible.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

Thanks again!

 

Derek

[gwrrob]

All of them Derek ! Seriously if you want a 70' go for either as the build info for both is on the Comet website.Geoff Brewin is on RMweb too for help or advice.I've built one of the 12 wheelers myself but it was'nt my first kit by a long way. Do you have any of the Russell coach books ?

 

I'd go for the corridor third.

[richbrummitt]

W1 Corridor Third C46 70’

W3 Corridor Brake Third-Right hand D84 70’

 

Weren't these the ones built for South Wales?

[Coach bogie]

Weren't these the ones built for South Wales?

 

Yes. They are classisfied as 'South Wales' Stock, though they soon appeared on other routes.

 

An area to watch out for is the 'South Wales' stock was also 'experimental' being a GWR trial for buckeye couplings. To enable the buckeye to be fitted it was necessary to built some with bow end. The result was a mix of stock, some flat ended, some bow ended and a batch of' converters' with one bow and one flat end. Before purchasing your Comet kit I would suggest you find a photo of the actual coach you want to model. The buckeye fitted end also had different buffers being hinged so they could be drop 90 degrees to allow the buckeye to do it's job.

 

Good luck

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Adrian Wintle]

I would suggest that either one of the brake thirds (D83/D84) or the flat-end third (C46) are good general-purpose coaches. I would avoid any of the bow-ended 70' coaches as they were the ones that were fitted for the buckeyes as Mike mentions. Using the basic soldering service would solve the major issue of all those droplights.

 

Adrian

[Clearwater]

Hi

 

Have just come across this thread. Does anyone know if any of the magazines have done a step by step illustrated guide to either a complete kit build or an addition of sides to a donor frame?

[Mallard60022]

Hi

 

Have just come across this thread. Does anyone know if any of the magazines have done a step by step illustrated guide to either a complete kit build or an addition of sides to a donor frame?

part of a Tony Wright DVD covers coach conversions (Thompsons and Gresleys I think?)

The old Comet set up had Building Coaches the Comet Way or some such leaflet. That was pretty good. 

P

[Bulldog]

part of a Tony Wright DVD covers coach conversions (Thompsons and Gresleys I think?)

The old Comet set up had Building Coaches the Comet Way or some such leaflet. That was pretty good. 

P

Download still available.

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/data/PDF/Building%20Coaches%20the%20Comet%20Way2.pdf

[hayfield]

Just saved me a bit of time finding the instructions as I need to fit some full length footboards.

[M.I.B]

I'm doing a batchof "sides onto RTR" at the moment.  Have got 4 to the stage where the insides have been painted.

 

It's down on my blog link below.

 

I agree with what Rob said further up this post - putting brass sides onto RTR looks an easy proposition until you start.  A couple of mine have had to be halted, and the sides stripped off and restarted.  Then there's the nightmare of shaping the ends ofthe sides..........

 

It's all on my blog.........

[Clearwater]

Thanks - reading others threads I'm coming to the conclusion

A) Just do it

B) the marginal extra effort in building the under frames is probably less hassle than amending donor frames.

C) using donor frames is, perversely, more beneficial if you are more experienced

D) there may be some benefit in using RTR bogies within the frames

 

I'm googling/you tubing to find brass soldering demos...

[M.I.B]

I could never have attempted the "sides onto RTR" route using my modelling experience and skills alone.  I have had to dig into my experience repairing cars to get this completed.

 

But if I could solder, I now think I would have preferred to go down the "full brass kit" route.

 

I have a number of these to finish, and there are 2 full brass kits in the projects box, so soldering lessons and practice will be required..........

[Clearwater]

I've never tried soldering brass. Can solder wires to track and to each other. Have also been ok building plastic kits. Hopefully some transferable skills from both....

 

Will be visiting wizard / Comet stall at warley!

[Star-rider]

Earlier this year I sought advice on overlaying some redundant Bachman Collett coaches with Comet sides as I had a need for composites and brake thirds for the formations I was trying to assemble.

 

As a result of the good advice I received here I pressed on with converting the thirds to composites but abandoned the idea of changing my brake composites to brake thirds, mostly due to the moulded roof tanks that would be in inappropriate positions – in the end I went down the full kit route for these.  I will resurrect my original thread at over the next week or so to show what I ended up with.

 

From the experience of doing this I would suggest that building a kit is probably not much more work than doing a conversion. If you have suitable donor RTR stock to hand you can save a few quid by just buying sides, but you will have to live with some compromises.

 

Don’t worry about the quality of your soldering; everything you do will be inside of the coach shell or underneath the chassis so no one is going to see it under normal circumstances, it can be as ugly as a bulldog chewing a wasp.

 

I am quite confident that you will be able to build a chassis and body and be satisfied with what you have done even the first time round. It is the painting and finishing that everyone sees. Some people are really talented at this, unfortunately I am not one of them and it is this that lets mine down. Keep practicing I suppose.

 

My own best advice to any first time kit builder:

1] Read the instructions twice before starting each section, don’t rush.

2] Don’t worry about soldering, others will not see it.

2] Double check that you have the roof the right way round before super-gluing it to the sides after you have taken the trouble to get all the ventilators in the right position (I’ve only allowed myself to make that mistake once ).

3] Once you have painted everything don’t use superglue to fix any last small fittings (door handles etc.) or the action of the glue will cause all of your paint and glazing to “bloom” wiping out a week’s work.

 

Comet brand kits work very well, I would recommend starting there and I hope that hearing of the problems that I have run into helps and does not frighten you off!

 

Pete.

[Siberian Snooper]

There is no problem with soldering anything as long as everything is clean before putting the iron near the joint, I find a fibreglass pencil and a suede brush very useful for cleaning the joint area first and with a hot iron you're away, remember to clean everything thoroughly at the end of a session. I use CIV and warm water.

[M.I.B]

Based on my time consuming and differing results with "sides onto RTR" this week,

 

and Star-Rider's post above,

 

Would I be right in suggesting a good solution for the beginner is a full brass kit soldered inside, with the smaller delicate items bonded/glued on once the "box" was completed.  Would that be practical?

[Siberian Snooper]

That is an entirely practical way to go about it, as your confidence grows you will find that you will soldermore and more bits. This is easier if you use the differing temprature solders, to reduce the risk of bits already soldered falling off. If you get brave enough to solder the bigger white metal bits on, remember to tin the brass first, I believe this may not be needed using 100 deg solder, but I have not tried it.