lmsforever Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Seen on another site,IEP is six years away with the planning on service centres approved but will the trains be up to the job with regards to passenger ambience etc ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Right; I'll play dumb. What's IEP and what's the source material you're referring to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Right; I'll play dumb. What's IEP and what's the source material you're referring to? Just found this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity_Express_Programme Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks BD, it still leaves me at a loss as to why anyone's speculating that the trains may not be up to the job or that they're not passenger friendly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 As hard as a try I cannot get excited about a new high speed tilting EMU/hybrid. XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted February 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2012 What am aware of is that the bi-mode versions (5-cars) have been described as being able to out-perform an HST on the gradients we have on the Western, even on reduced power, which is good news. I have no other information on the interiors of the trains, passenger facilities etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks BD, it still leaves me at a loss as to why anyone's speculating that the trains may not be up to the job or that they're not passenger friendly. There was a long thread on this subject a good few months back which went into the ins & outs of just about everything which has so far been written about them, be it good, bad, or downright rude. Can't recall what the thread title was and no doubt once the debate gets going there will be yet another thread of similar length. Basically the 'not up to the job' is based on published details plus a lot of evaluation of them written by Roger Ford in 'Modern Railways' and falls into several categories. I'm not really sure about the 'not passenger friendly' aspect but some sets will be delivered in a 'high density' format which some may regard as less than comfortable for a 2 hour journey. The frothing thus far (and no doubt to come) over these trains puts the average r-t-r wishlist into 'not really trying' territory and it might be advisable to set up some garlic by the sign-in screen if things really get going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I.E.P. Impeccably Exceptionally Polite (passenger friendly) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissRailPassion Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Almost 30 million spent so far, announced in 2009 but contract still yet to be signed after umpteen redesigns. Now only another six years to go before it rolls - that's how to order a train! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold daveyb Posted February 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2012 They must employ the same procurement and contract personnel as the Ministry of Defence! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 And will be beaten by a fleet of Pendolinos once the Train Companies are allowed a say in what they are expected to run on the ECML and GWML. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I.E.P. Impeccably Exceptionally Polite (passenger friendly) I.E.P. Incredibly Expensive Project! XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Or if it goes the way of APT (A Political Travesty) - it will be IEP Incredibly Expensive Prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Or if it goes the way of APT (A Political Travesty) - it will be IEP Incredibly Expensive Prototype. That was my initail thought for IEP, I think both a valid though! XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Right; I'll play dumb. What's IEP and what's the source material you're referring to? Andy its the all singing and dancing replacement for the HST,s the article is in Rail magaazine and the Swiss are designing a new type catenary ,its design by a commitee and being nice to the Japanese prime minister so as he brings jobs to the north. Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 If I was a respiratory expert, I'd recommend that you don't hold your breath. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 What am aware of is that the bi-mode versions (5-cars) have been described as being able to out-perform an HST on the gradients we have on the Western, even on reduced power, which is good news. I have no other information on the interiors of the trains, passenger facilities etc. Im pretty sure i read that they couldnt cope with services to the South West, which is why under current plans anything west of Exeter will have to soldier on with HST's for the forseeable future - not helped by the cost of the infrastructure changes required for 26m carriages. The whole thing is an epic waste of money - its been estimated that a Pendolino-type alternative could save at least £20,000 per vehicle per month, allowing for a considerable extra amount of wiring; with plans to electrify the MML and bi-mode Voyagers/Meridians there really isnt any need for bi-mode at all. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think the basic objections to the new trains are: 1. Johnny Foreign is involved in building them. Proper trains are built in Derby, as every MP for Derby will tell you. We'll lose British jobs if the trains are built in the UK by a Foreign company. 2. They aren't a locomotive and carriages. Nobody wants to take photos of DMUs and EMUs. We could use class 66s and spare Mk2s on expresses for at least the next 50 years. These would look much better on the front cover of <insert magazine of choice>. 3. Some people don't like the sound of the bi-mode version, as this will involve dragging switched off diesel engines round on electric power and/or won't have enough power to move itself on diesel. This argument only applies to the bi-mode IEP, and not to any similar proposals for a bi-mode Voyager or Meridian (see point 1 above). 4. The DfT has micromanaged everything without really knowing what they are doing or properly consulting the TOCs. Only point 4 is probably valid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Knowing FGW's plans IF they get the new franchise, im glad to be sticking with 16 HST sets or so for Cornwall to up country services. Its not the infrastructure, i just see problems with the over-technical stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 This IEP is nothing but a ridiculously expensive vanity project, the coaches are too long (why 26m when 23m is fine) and a lot of infrastructure alterations will need to be made. When running on diesel they cannot keep to HST timings (or anywhere close) which is why the Cornish services will still be HSTs. The BI-modes will be dragging the weight of the diesel engines around simply because of the politics of Whitehall paying to (sensibly) wire to Swansea, impacting on performance and the supposed "green" credentials. Pendolino STYLE (not pendos themselves though) are the right course of action and much cheaper to buy/ run and maintain than this thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The problem is the constantly changing goalposts, and that the whole process is so slow that by the time they start homing in on a design, the world has changed - eg more lines to be electrified meaning that the origninal ideas were no longer appropriate. If they could have got it up and running from a standing start in two years like BR did with the HST... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 This IEP is nothing but a ridiculously expensive vanity project, the coaches are too long (why 26m when 23m is fine) and a lot of infrastructure alterations will need to be made. Really? Citation(s) needed... It's perfectly possible to have a 26m carriage within the C3 restriction. When running on diesel they cannot keep to HST timings (or anywhere close) which is why the Cornish services will still be HSTs. They cannot keep to HST timings on the Cornish run, everywhere else they're going to be pretty much okay (and more than okay when under the wires). The BI-modes will be dragging the weight of the diesel engines around simply because of the politics of Whitehall paying to (sensibly) wire to Swansea, impacting on performance and the supposed "green" credentials. No, the Bi-modes will not be dragging the weight of the diesel engines around as they'll be necessary for, you know, providing traction power when not under the wires. The whole approach is meant to be modular, with the Bi Mode units being easily convertible to plain electric by removal of the majority of the auxillary engines from the coaches. Pendolino STYLE (not pendos themselves though) are the right course of action and much cheaper to buy/ run and maintain than this thing. Really? The IEP very much is Pendolino style (dsitributed power over fixed rake, with the Bi-Mode version having extra "donkey" engines to allow extended off juice running) with added benefits (no tilt requirement so less claustraphobic inside, multiple working facilty). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I sat in an IEP seat earlier today. Pretty comfy, upright-ish, reminiscent of a Standard Class Compin seat from TGV Atlantique or its ilk. This post has no bearing on the politics of the IEP or has any implications as to the imminent announcement of contract signature, and should not be taken as such. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The problem is the constantly changing goalposts, and that the whole process is so slow that by the time they start homing in on a design, the world has changed - eg more lines to be electrified meaning that the origninal ideas were no longer appropriate. If they could have got it up and running from a standing start in two years like BR did with the HST... Or a growing realisation/acceptance that rather than try and build trains that work on a mainly unwired network it might be more beneficial to actually increase electrification so that all the most intensely used parts of the network are wired. As a result of this change (GWML, MML, Trans Pennine) it is prudent that the government delay purchase and reconsider options as it will result in procurring the right trains to fit the network as it will be. Things have changed a great deal since IEP was first mooted the government could have carried on regardless and we'd be moaning now that the IEP is ridiculously over specced/complicated for what it is required to do. The outcome might be more Pendolinos and some sort of extra life extension for HSTs into the Southwest and Scotland or it might result in an order for differently specced IEPs that are more focussed on electrified railways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I sat in an IEP seat earlier today. Pretty comfy, upright-ish, reminiscent of a Standard Class Compin seat from TGV Atlantique or its ilk. This post has no bearing on the politics of the IEP or has any implications as to the imminent announcement of contract signature, and should not be taken as such. But remember what the only part of the APT was that made it into squadron service... The first-c;lass seat was used in the Mk4 coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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