sunbeam.20 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Hello guys Horse, I originally thought he was just using the brass as a mandrel to turn the out side of the wheel centre, not as an axle, but that was incorrect. I just couldn't imagine someone using brass axles. Julian, I too would use silver steel for the axles, and if the centres have not been machined but are as formed, I would definitely turn them. If they are already machined I would still spin them all to make sure that the outside is concentric with the centre, as it is a lot easier to rectify now. If all items are made to tolerance and fully machined then yes, they should still be concentric once assembled. However, I know not what tools and equipment you have, but if there is a recessed shoulder in the rim that butts against a machined shoulder on the centre then there will be a much greater chance of success for concentricity and squareness. I have found that if using hand feed instead of a powered feed, the higher the spindle speed the better. Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 Hi Matthew, I never imagined myself married with kids but there you go... I don’t think I explained myself very well, which seems to have caused some confusion. The lathe images are from last night’s very first ’play’ with my brand new toy. Nothing has actually been fabricated yet. The wheel centres originate from SEM, who have made more wheel sets than anyone cares to remember. Nonetheless, I will check their concentricity. Just for clarity, here is what I have purchased: Model 4400 (4410) 3.5" x 17" lathe (with adjustable "zero" handwheels and rocker toolpost) 3.1" 3-jaw self-centering chuck 3/8" tailstock drill chuck w/ key, #0 Morse arbor, #1 Morse arbor with drawbolt Steady rest Live center Compound slide Cutoff tool and holder 1/4" HSS 3-piece tool set (RH, LH, boring) Sherline 5/32" T-driver 3 piece center drill set Thread cutting attachment 5-piece WW collett set w/ adapter, drawbar and knockout bar Sherline 2.5" 4-jaw Independent Chuck Thanks again for your thoughts, Matthew. Hi Morgan, Good to hear that you’re enjoying the thread, and thanks for your advice – also much appreciated. I’ll try to pop out tomorrow to grab some ‘new’ axle steel. AS can be seen from the list above, a thread cutting attachment was included in the purchase. I’m not sure if this can also be used to provide constant feed and a better finish? Cheers, Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbeam.20 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It would be interesting to know if the thread cutting attachment would be suitable for other uses, I suspect you may have to set it up and have a play. Some of the cheaper thread cutting tools are actually a die in a special holder fed on from the tailstock, but I have no idea what yours is. Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 There is a full set of instructions here..... http://www.sherline.com/3100inst.htm Without having read it all in detail the diagram would seem to suggest that the thread cutting should be done with a manual handwheel on the back of the spindle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 Hi All, It’s been a loooong time since I’ve posted. An unhealthy combination of work, together with a far more healthy dose of family and holidays has put a ‘go slow’ on the J class. I’ve been developing my machining skills over the last couple of weeks, which has resulted in the first trial J Class tyre profile. I was not able to machine the bore, as I need to purchase a drill bit. As can be seen, I removed as much material (stainless steel) I could, leaving around 10 thou on the tread and flange. I then used the Proto87 form tool, I finished the tyre surface by slightly feeding in the tool and rotating the chuck by hand. The Proto87 form tool takes up a considerable amount of room on either side of the tyre. I removed enough material to accommodate. However, this will be time consuming and wasteful when it comes to machining all wheels. Consequently, I am considering machining several tyres to the basic shape, followed by boring the centre, then parting off each unit. I can then mount each tyre on a mandrel and finish off with the Proto87 tool. (I should also say that I'll be using the four-jaw chuck after I receive a second chuck key.) Any thoughts or comment would be appreciated. Julian PS: Sorry about the quality of some of the images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 ...I removed as much material (stainless steel) I could, leaving around 10 thou on the tread and flange. I then used the Proto87 form tool, I finished the tyre surface by slightly feeding in the tool and rotating the chuck by hand. The Proto87 form tool takes up a considerable amount of room on either side of the tyre. I removed enough material to accommodate. However, this will be time consuming and wasteful when it comes to machining all wheels. Consequently, I am considering machining several tyres to the basic shape, followed by boring the centre, then parting off each unit. I can then mount each tyre on a mandrel and finish off with the Proto87 tool. (I should also say that I'll be using the four-jaw chuck after I receive a second chuck key.)... Very interesting. I looked at the very coarse NEM profiles on my Roco DB Br.41 recently and wondered if my P87 form tools could get those down a bit. The hard bit is separating the tyres from the Roco plastic wheel centres. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Hi Julian, Good to see you back and it looks like the machining practice is paying off. The tyre form has come out well. I note that you said you didn't have a drill bit to do the bore. When you do get one it would be sensible to rough finish the bore to be slightly less than the finished size you are aiming at. In actual fact the way I'd do this is drill out the bore with sucessively bigger drills as this is putting much less load on the tool by keeping the width of cut smaller. Once at the rough size I would change to a 'D' bit boring tool that has been set in the tool post. I think you can buy them ready ground but if you have the facilities it is not difficult to grind one yourself. The beauty of a 'D' bit is you have very fine control of the cross slide feed to get the diameter you need and it will also be able to do a flat bottomed hole or right angled shoulder on which to seat the plastic wheel centre. If you were to machine the tyre form the other way round (i.e. flange closer to the tailstock) then you could keep trying the wheel centre for fit in the tyre bore before removing it from the chuck. Is your tyre form tool double ended? You may find problems with maintaining sufficient concentricity with the method you have proposed. The cardinal rule for good concentricity is to do as much of the machining as you can without removing the workpiece from the chuck. With a tyre you should be able to do the whole thing without having to re-chuck. In summary the procedure would be.... Rough finish outer diameter..... Drill and rough finish bore..... Finish bore to final size and depth..... Form tyre profile..... Deburr..... Part off..... Cheers....Morgan P.S. What grade of stainless are you using? Freecutting 303 or similar? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbeam.20 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Hello Julian The tread finish looks good. I agree with Morgan that it is best for as many operations to be carried out without removal for concentricity. Ideally the less overhang the better too, from the tool holder and both the chuck and tailstock. I always aim to have the job as close to the chuck as is workable. I would also narrow the form tool if there is access to a bench grinder. Did you create the tool in the first photo? The end cutting edge angle looks to be too great to me, and a bit more nose radius wouldn't hurt either. http://www.akpilot.n...Lathe Tools.pdf is a good guide if you are grinding your own tools. Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 Hi Horse, I could be wrong but understand that you could use the form tool to reshape the wheel – obviously some material will have to be removed from the front face. I guess that there’s only one way to find out. Hi Morgan, Thanks for your thoughts – much appreciated. I do already have a ‘D’ tool but still need the various sized drill bits. The form tool is double ended, so the option of machining it the other way around is available to me (and a good idea). Hi Mathew, Yes, the form tool is a little hefty. Unfortunately, it’s not mine to fiddle with. Hence, my suggestion of forming each tyre (separately) on a mandrel. Oh, and the cutting tool in the first image is of my cutting tool. I can modify that tool as I see fit. Finally, thanks for the link to the tool grinding document. Much appreciated. Looking forward to the next step – thanks to all for their thoughts. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I thought this shot of a brand new loco being loaded onto a ship at Liverpool docks in 1958 would be of interest. I have seen other shots of these at the docks but I cant remember at the moment where I seen them. http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/9/36/1479/index.htm the crane couldnt take the weight! http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/15/50/1509/index.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Hi Michael, Holy smokes! Looks like a mess! I only hope that a J Class isn;t buried under the spaghetti of metal... Great images, and thanks for posting. All, I've been getting into the machining 'thing' and learning how to use the mini-lathe. After competing the trial tyre, I've moved into 'production’. I have machined the axles and wheel centres. The next step is to produce a batch of tyres. I'll download some photos a little later this evening, as dinner is ready... Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 All, Here is the trial wheel (left) versus the original wheel (right). Will upload some more picture tomorrow. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 As promised: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 What back-to-back measurement are you using for P87BG? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Nice bit of work, how are you making sure the tyres stay on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Hi Michael, Holy smokes! Looks like a mess! I only hope that a J Class isn;t buried under the spaghetti of metal... Great images, and thanks for posting. I originally thought it was Liverpool docks but pretty sure now it was in Australia, wonder if there is any record if one did get dropped? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Hi Horse, BG P87 back to back range of 17.37mm to17.44mm. Hi N15Class, It'll be a push fit with a dab of Loctite - not sure which type. Any ideas? Hi Michael, I can see from the four-wheel, tarped rolling stock (GY or derivative thereof) in the foreground and background that it's in Victoria. I'm guessing it's one of the docks in Melbourne. I've posted the images on another web site to get some more information. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The first photo is very similar to the one in a 1954 VR Newsletter article reproduced on the J class page at Mark Bau's Victorian Railways website (maybe even the same two blokes in the foreground?). Note that 1958 is definitely too late for deliveries of the J class. Edit: At the risk of stealing someone else's thunder, discussion of these photos at the VR-Enthusiast forum has revealed that the crane was hit by a ship in October 1954 in an incident unrelated to unloading locomotives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I thought this shot of a brand new loco being loaded onto a ship at Liverpool docks in 1958 would be of interest. I have seen other shots of these at the docks but I cant remember at the moment where I seen them. http://www.20thcentu.../1479/index.htm the crane couldnt take the weight! http://www.20thcentu.../1509/index.htm Sports commentator: "That's gotta hurt....." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Not a J, but one of the North British-built R's being unloaded by the same crane a year earlier. (And what is that Z guard's van doing in white, or at least a very light colour? Why isn't it the usual reddy-browny colour?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hi All, As ejp has indicated, no J Class under the collapsed crane! Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 "Busier than a mosquito at a nudist colony." A great way to describe things for me over the last few months... However, I've been hitting the lathe every moment that I can get. And with a little help from a good modelling mate, Andrew, I've been making some progress (particularly with machining a taper arbor). In short the tyres are now 'in production', with 5 completed. All that's left is for the wheel centres and tyres to be 'sandwiched' together (with some loctite), and then the axles installed (also loctite). I can see a ray of light at the end of the tunnel. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I like the one called "boring gauge". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I like the one called "boring gauge". Is that one we can't start an argument about? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Is that one we can't start an argument about? Oh I dunno..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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