D6975 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 We're all assuming that it will become a 3 car at some point then??? I certainly hope so. And what about a buffet car? Not many of those were built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 We're all assuming that it will become a 3 car at some point then??? I certainly hope so. And what about a buffet car? Not many of those were built. Now the buffets are just plain rude! I expect a number of ex-Hornby (Lima) centre cars might end up getting the treatment now. In fact I picked up a spare only last month, but I don't think they appeared in Scottish units, did they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D6975 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 No, I'm pretty sure the buffets were all in NE units (possibly all in 4 car sets too) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I believe the Buffet cars were just loose coaches added to three car sets, (or replacing a TSO in a four car set) for the NE region. I also think I'm right in saying they were exactly the same window pattern as a TSO just with the window aperture plated over. They even had the aluminium window frames still in place. I'm sure someone will be able to clarify this though. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
00ERmissus Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Did the design of these machines vary around the regions or were they much of a muchness? I remember them trundling up and down the line between Bishops Stortford and Cambridge in the late 70’s prior to electrification and it’s one of these I’d like to have in my collection although it would be for the green era. I was toying with the idea of a Hornby one but not now… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Did the design of these machines vary around the regions or were they much of a muchness? I remember them trundling up and down the line between Bishops Stortford and Cambridge in the late 70’s prior to electrification and it’s one of these I’d like to have in my collection although it would be for the green era. I was toying with the idea of a Hornby one but not now… The 101 was never one of "OUR" units at Cambridge in the green era. Mid-60's saw the introduction of the Leicester/Birmingham through workings, mostly using units from that end, which were a mix of mainly 101 & 104 cars,usually in mixed car formations. In fact I have a 6-car model, using a Lima 101 & Hornby (converted 110) 104, with 1 car in each unit in blue, the others in green. No, the Met-Camms for Cambridge were the pre-historic 79xxx series, with the bufferbeam skirts. Would be good to see those produced, even if I've only just done a conversion on a Lima 101 ! Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley West Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 A 101 to modern standards is just brilliant news for me and means Waverley West will at last have its key signature DMU from the 1980s. I can almost hear the windows rattling already. Cheers, Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
00ERmissus Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The 101 was never one of "OUR" units at Cambridge in the green era. Mid-60's saw the introduction of the Leicester/Birmingham through workings, mostly using units from that end, which were a mix of mainly 101 & 104 cars,usually in mixed car formations. In fact I have a 6-car model, using a Lima 101 & Hornby (converted 110) 104, with 1 car in each unit in blue, the others in green. No, the Met-Camms for Cambridge were the pre-historic 79xxx series, with the bufferbeam skirts. Would be good to see those produced, even if I've only just done a conversion on a Lima 101 ! Stewart Many thanks for that Stewart, sounds like I shall be employing a little ‘modellers licence’ (again) then! For a while, one was often timetabled to operate an early morning service between Elsenham and Bishops Stortford, to connect with the London electrics. Many a time it shook me to pieces on that section of the line but at least I and fellow commuters were wide awake for work by the time we got off. I could also smell it before I saw it as I walked towards the station. Happy days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I believe the Buffet cars were just loose coaches added to three car sets, (or replacing a TSO in a four car set) for the NE region. I also think I'm right in saying they were exactly the same window pattern as a TSO just with the window aperture plated over. They even had the aluminium window frames still in place. I'm sure someone will be able to clarify this though. That's pretty much it Sean (as an aside, I converted a Triang one back in my teens). They were 'loose' AFAIK (in the respect that they werent delivered as part of sets like most DMU cars). As long as the buffets were operational, I think their main routes were Newcastle - Carlisle, Newcastle - Middlesbro and the Calder Valley. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'm with those who think it's a pity to have another 101 when there are still so many classes not yet available. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Problem with the others is they were rather region specific, whilst the 101 was a lot more widely spread. Personally I'm waiting for the NSE one, hope it's not too long in the pipeline! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Few of them have the 101's geographic spread and longevity though. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The 101 is old tooling - it was old tooling when Hornby picked it up around 2006, and their only tooling investment has been to modifiy the power car underframe and a part share of the cost of the Limby motor bogie - which has gone under so many things that it must be paid for by now. They've had it out for about 5 years, so they've had their money's worth , and the new model is going to be a substantial step forward - new generation tooing , no underframe box etc This one's fair game as part of the upgrade cycle. However it does leave Hornby with a real issue - they need a Modernisation Plan DMU , and they've just lost their main presence in that niche. Looking at the polls I think they have to pick up the 120 next year, and a 115-118 series unit becomes the logical followup. The difficulty is that these are all basically 3 car units (though power twins were not unheard of) and therefore a more expensive product. The only longframe low density 2 car unit is I think 114 , and that's too localised (besides I have a DC Kits one to build) I shan't be replacing my own 101, but lets hope this is a good one 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 101s did appear at Cambridge on the Cambridge /Royston shuttle in the mid 80s - but I suspect that's too late for 00ERmissus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Did the design of these machines vary around the regions or were they much of a muchness? I remember them trundling up and down the line between Bishops Stortford and Cambridge in the late 70’s prior to electrification and it’s one of these I’d like to have in my collection although it would be for the green era. I was toying with the idea of a Hornby one but not now… IMHO there were regional differences. The ER ones seemed to have strange buffer stocks with "packing pieces", whereas our LMR ones had the Oleos bolted straight to the buffer beams. The Scottish blue ones seemed to me to have their aluminium window frames painted blue. Also lighting configurations on the cab ends. Most of the LMR ones seemed to have had just the two marker lights retained by the 1980s, and just a windwscreen wiper for the driver !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hmm. Good news, but having seen the lightweight for the first time the other week while visiting the parents it makes it an even greater shame that Bachmann havnt sprung their extended shank buffers. Still, leaves something to do! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfield_Park Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Gary, Richard - thinking about it now, I'm not sure if any of the four-lamp Blue Square sets were delivered as twins, other than the very early 501xx MBS/560xx DTCL, which IIRC had Rolls Royce engines and were thus 111s. According to the Railcar site (archived 'old' version I've found) Batch 2E was made up of 12 power/trailers and delivered to Darlington. These were the last sets built with the four marker lights and the only twin sets with that specification. 12 probably isn't enough to warrant a production run mind... http://web.archive.org/web/20070104030337/http://www.railcar.co.uk/his100-109/101ops.htm 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted March 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2012 The 101 was never one of "OUR" units at Cambridge in the green era. Mid-60's saw the introduction of the Leicester/Birmingham through workings, mostly using units from that end, which were a mix of mainly 101 & 104 cars,usually in mixed car formations. In fact I have a 6-car model, using a Lima 101 & Hornby (converted 110) 104, with 1 car in each unit in blue, the others in green. No, the Met-Camms for Cambridge were the pre-historic 79xxx series, with the bufferbeam skirts. Would be good to see those produced, even if I've only just done a conversion on a Lima 101 ! Stewart Quite agree in general Stewart, although 'First Generation DMUs in East Anglia' (John Brodribb, Ian Allan) has a couple of pictures of a 2-car set including E56362 on the Hunstanton line and a similar set (could be the same one?) at North Walsham, all taken in 1969. The 'Combined Volume' I used when I started spotting at Cambridge in 1968 has this car and E51204 underlined - at the time I hadn't travelled far afield on spotting trips, and I remember seeing a Metro Cammell with the distinctive lining in Cambridge around then - which stuck in my memory as being unusual compared to the DMUs we usually saw. I'd be interested to know when this set came to East Anglia (and whether there were any others) as I've recently modified my Limby one to a 2-car and given it those numbers just as an excuse to run one on a 1960s ER layout (and as such, ought to have predicted this announcement from Bachmann!). The buffers Phil refers to look like this: As noted, similar to the ones Bachmann have modelled on the Derby Lightweights - perhaps unsprung for 'technical' reasons associated with the unusual design? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Many thanks for that Stewart, sounds like I shall be employing a little ‘modellers licence’ (again) then! For a while, one was often timetabled to operate an early morning service between Elsenham and Bishops Stortford, to connect with the London electrics. Many a time it shook me to pieces on that section of the line but at least I and fellow commuters were wide awake for work by the time we got off. I could also smell it before I saw it as I walked towards the station. Happy days! Try this for size: 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 However it does leave Hornby with a real issue - they need a Modernisation Plan DMU , and they've just lost their main presence in that niche. In light of recent discussions, I'm not sure Hornby think in terms of 'needing' a presence in any particular market sector, I suspect the Limby 101 will roll on as long as it keeps selling, just as other Limby models that are duplicated do Hmm. Good news, but having seen the lightweight for the first time the other week while visiting the parents it makes it an even greater shame that Bachmann havnt sprung their extended shank buffers.Still, leaves something to do! i'm puzzled. Why do you need sprung buffers on a 4mm DMU? According to the Railcar site (archived 'old' version I've found) Batch 2E was made up of 12 power/trailers and delivered to Darlington. These were the last sets built with the four marker lights and the only twin sets with that specification. 12 probably isn't enough to warrant a production run mind... No, it probably isnt worth it for a twin, but if they were to go on to 3 or 4 car sets, it would come into its own. Something that would really move the short frame DMU game on IMO is a proper 'NER quad', with an MCL each end and the van in the trailer. Froth alert... Quite agree in general Stewart, although 'First Generation DMUs in East Anglia' (John Brodribb, Ian Allan) has a couple of pictures of a 2-car set including E56362 on the Hunstanton line and a similar set (could be the same one?) at North Walsham, all taken in 1969. The 'Combined Volume' I used when I started spotting at Cambridge in 1968 has this car and E51204 underlined - at the time I hadn't travelled far afield on spotting trips, and I remember seeing a Metro Cammell with the distinctive lining in Cambridge around then - which stuck in my memory as being unusual compared to the DMUs we usually saw. I'd be interested to know when this set came to East Anglia (and whether there were any others) I'm sure there were others Steve, but I think it would date from around that 1968/69 kinda time - they probably came south as replacements for withdrawn Lightweights Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Steve, according to Roger Harris' DMU Allocation History Part 1, E51204 moved from Neville Hill to Norwich in August '68 and stayed there until November '75. There is another photo of E56362 at Snettisham in British Railway Fleet Survey Vol 8 taken the same day by the same photographer. The photos you quote and this one are the only ones that I've managed to find of green 101s in East Anglia in the late 60's. There were definately more blue ones in the area by 1970/71, we used to see them along with Gloucester 100s and Cravens at Sudbury station during school lunch time visits. Edit: I've found another one allocated to Norwich in October '68, E51217. It left at the same time as 204. Edited March 14, 2012 by giz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted March 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thanks, Ian and Giz - kinda ties in with what I suspected. I didn't 'spot' any lightweights in action, although there were some stored specimens still lurking in '68, and I had ridden on them earlier on the Cambridge-Bedford. Ah well, 'it's my layout' rules can apply! Nice picture, Stewart! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 i'm puzzled. Why do you need sprung buffers on a 4mm DMU? In case you want to shunt with it silly! The real reason (as you probably know) is it ticks a marketing box in the advert making people 'think' it must be better when in reality it makes absolutely no difference. Cheers Jim 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me. Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 In case you want to shunt with it silly! The real reason (as you probably know) is it ticks a marketing box in the advert making people 'think' it must be better when in reality it makes absolutely no difference. Cheers Jim Don't they help absorb the shock when you drop them on the floor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Depends if they always fall buffer side down! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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