RMweb Premium uax6 Posted February 8, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 I think the 'open' area of frame without any board on it at the minute needs to lowered so that the slope of that field at KS is acheived, hillock hump to valley slope in one long gentle curve. It also gives you an opportunity to get some more woodwork to do! Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted February 8, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 The area behind the goods yard where the row of cottages is planned will be the key part in my opinion, as that will really frame the railway. If it were me, I would model them on a slope (trickier to build but worth the effort) with the row climbing a more gentle hill than the other side of the valley. I still reckon it is a shame you can't model a road under bridge like at KS but understand why you can't, although it does spring to mind that a road to the station and houses would most likely cross the railway somewhere around the station area so that communities (a few farmers basically) on both sides of the railway have access to the yard, otherwise it will seem like the station is built at the end of a dead end road. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyb_imp Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Jeff A good bit of planning there to ensure you had post 4000 free for an update of the index, you only had to fill in for one post (3999) although you did have to stay up in to the wee hours to achieve it. Your a true trouper lunester Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted February 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2013 The Midland were not averse to carving shelves out of hillsides in order to put the railway in as well as station areas. There would be plenty of spoil from those tunnels to level out the ground too. Being a junction station, I expect the company would not have minded expending a bit more capital on this part of the railway. Had it been a through station the story may have been different. Could the goods yard be built on slightly rising ground to match the suggestion by Sandside of cottages on a slope? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 8, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 I think the 'open' area of frame without any board on it at the minute needs to lowered so that the slope of that field at KS is acheived, hillock hump to valley slope in one long gentle curve. It also gives you an opportunity to get some more woodwork to do! Andy Which "open" area is that, Andy? All the areas that are usable are covered in board. Post a diagram to explain? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 8, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 2c from Down Under: I'm with Andy on this one - I think if you carried on the idea of contours dropping down into the scene, a model that is Dent-esque would work well. Kirkby Dentdale.jpg By carring on the contours from the "small hillock" along in front of the station, you avoid the flat earth* scenario, and the railway then looks like it came after the scenery... (having said that, I also appreciate that Kirkby Stephen is a lot more level than Dent, so may be what you want to follow) Scott This is all very well, but people seem to be forgetting that I need access from the well to the station area. I could bury the station behind a hillside where you wouldn't see it, but you'd never be able to get to it. In practical terms, the station can have a bit of a field aspect between it and the well. Behind the lines, as shown on the diagrams, are the platforms and goods area. There is a little bit of space beyond the yard for a road and a couple of cottages. No realistic room for a hillside in there. If somebody wants to take one of the photos and add some detail to put forward ideas, please do. I will try my best, but again - you have to remember the practicalities of what I have in front of me and the fact that access is needed. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 8, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 The Midland were not averse to carving shelves out of hillsides in order to put the railway in as well as station areas. There would be plenty of spoil from those tunnels to level out the ground too. Being a junction station, I expect the company would not have minded expending a bit more capital on this part of the railway. Had it been a through station the story may have been different. Could the goods yard be built on slightly rising ground to match the suggestion by Sandside of cottages on a slope? Jonathan, the yard is very close to the station buildings with sidings running into it - on the level. I'd better re-post a rough diagram of the scheme as people aren't seeing the yard for what it is. I would love to have another 3 feet to play with behind the station - then I could lift the surroundings. But I'm afraid I havent... Diagram to follow. Any bright ideas? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 8, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 Ok, here's the Anyrail plan - a fair approximation to where the rail is.... Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Not suggesting another Lunside Fell... just 75-100mm rise of terrain towards the front of the board, that forms a valley the railway may have hugged: I guess a lot depends on how severe you were going to make your cutting - what I'm trying to suggest is something that would justify the existance fo the cutting, or is a continuation of the landform there... There's not too many flat and straight roads in the real world - maybe the terrain on the far side of the tracks needs to fall slightly from right to left - again 100mm? - and so the road comes down to the station? All simply my unfiltered thoughts, Jeff - just think of them as seeds to encourage you to think. Weed as you feel the need to! Cheers Scott Edited February 8, 2013 by jukebox Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 8, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 Scott - that's what I mean by sensible and possibly doable suggestions. What you've sketched is certainly possible. Most is what I'd planned, but the rise from platform 2 TOWARDS the well - I hadn't considered because of access. If it was only 5 - 10 cm it might be ok. Will have a look! Thanks, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 8, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 Jeff A good bit of planning there to ensure you had post 4000 free for an update of the index, you only had to fill in for one post (3999) although you did have to stay up in to the wee hours to achieve it. Your a true trouper lunester Well spotted Billy. I wanted to use post 4000 for the index and was sat waiting for someone to do 3999. They didn't, so after half-an-hour I chucked something in, hoping post 4000 wouldn't then go (you may not know, but the system won't let you put 2 posts in immediately - there has to be a gap. If you post again too soon, it chucks that into the previous one). Anyway, mission accomplished!! Trooper Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 8, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 The area behind the goods yard where the row of cottages is planned will be the key part in my opinion, as that will really frame the railway. If it were me, I would model them on a slope (trickier to build but worth the effort) with the row climbing a more gentle hill than the other side of the valley. I still reckon it is a shame you can't model a road under bridge like at KS but understand why you can't, although it does spring to mind that a road to the station and houses would most likely cross the railway somewhere around the station area so that communities (a few farmers basically) on both sides of the railway have access to the yard, otherwise it will seem like the station is built at the end of a dead end road. The idea was that the road passes behind the station, giving access to the station yard. Unfortunately, I can't show the road heading off. I'd have loved to do the underbridge, but it can't be fitted because of all the sidings etc. Jason - have a look at the plans above and see if you can visualise a way for your "rising cottage scheme". I've thought of a way round the access - I can build the corner as a removable access "man hole cover" .... so the corner could have a little bit of hillside on it. The cottages could then be on the flat near the yard entrance, with a couple on the rise, near the corner. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted February 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2013 Hi Jeff, any chance that you could make those two sidings near the road on a very slightly rising gradient towards the buffer stops and have the road rising from left to right with the S&C cottages rising with the road? You could put a retaining wall between the sidings and the road and use up some of that embossed plasticard. Have you still got a contact at your old school's art dept who could paint in the background fells? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Hi Jeff, any chance that you could make those two sidings near the road on a very slightly rising gradient towards the buffer stops and have the road rising from left to right with the S&C cottages rising with the road? Jeff I think that would work. Only needs to rise 5 - 6 mm to start the rise to the cottages. Alternatively, have the sidings as part of the cutting and have a small retaining wall just behind the sidings. Again, only needs be 10 mm or so. Duncan - Thinking Lunester (for a change) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Hi Jeff, Had a problem with my Flip Flop but with a new Firefox browser it is much quicker.now as I would be typing a reply like this and it would throw me off the blumin internet thingy So, I have had alook through the last few pages and this is taking off again, I do love Scott's artwork, post 4002, absolutely brilliant mate. Jason,post 4004, I have to agree with you re the cottages on a small hillock, mound, rise or something, just like yours and Tetleys. :locomotive: Index, heck mate as I said many many moons ago you will need an INDEX TO SORT OUT THE INDEX , Happier Old Lune done a whole post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Jason - have a look at the plans above and see if you can visualise a way for your "rising cottage scheme". I've thought of a way round the access - I can build the corner as a removable access "man hole cover" .... so the corner could have a little bit of hillside on it. The cottages could then be on the flat near the yard entrance, with a couple on the rise, near the corner. Jeff How much access do you need in that corner? The removable man hole is a good compromise to give you more room in that corner to add scenery - and make the railway blend in. I think I agree with Scott's suggestion, that slight rise towards the operating well (which could still be a field) should help with the impression of looking down on the railway from a hillside - which is effectively what you are doing from standing height. The only problem then is how does the scene fit together, I've had a quick go at sketching the area around Kirkby Luneside: This has the ground sloping away across the station area, but it's a start... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted February 8, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 Just a quick one here Jeff, but how about this. Road overbridge (girder bridge to span all three tracks) which turns after crossing and runs past teh branch line before dropping off the edge of the board. On the other side, it remains on a hill with a turning down towards the station and yard, possibly continuing past it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Wish I could draw freehand Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 8, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 Wow! Thanks for all the ideas lads! Sorry for the delay but I've just been into the bunker to take some relevant pics for you to play with. Jason - I love the idea of the bridge, but unless the bridge started in the backscene there's not enough space. Anyway, going to brothers for coffee. I'll leave you with 3 relevant photos. Btw Jonathan... Hi Jeff, any chance that you could make those two sidings near the road on a very slightly rising gradient towards the buffer stops and have the road rising from left to right with the S&C cottages rising with the road? You could put a retaining wall between the sidings and the road and use up some of that embossed plasticard. Have you still got a contact at your old school's art dept who could paint in the background fells? I assume you meant road rising from right to left, if the buffer stop end is higher. Not a bad idea. Can we concentrate on the viaduct end for now - that's what I'll work on first. I'll look at all your ideas in detail later on. Please continue to discuss this. I like the idea of a rising field towards the well, blending into a hillock as we move left, forming a cutting (as in the pic I referred to yesterday: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3166/3020789242_034d1a4e14_z.jpg?zz=1). At right, I can fit in a road rising onto a hillside over the access man-hole.... Thanks, Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberdare Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Hi Jeff Just been reading through the last few posts and had to go and look at some pictures of Kirkby Stephen and back through your thread - using the index of course. I do like Jasons idea but you do seem to be a bit pressed for room behind the track to get the full road in, a bit hard to judge from the pictures though. If things remain as is then the hint of hills going off scene as suggested is the way to go. On mine I have a large hill at the back which I would love to include but have to satisfy myself with the start of it and rely on the backscene to complete the picture. Whatever you decide I'm sure we will go along with it. Oh! another post from you that might change things, back later. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schubert Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Just a quick one here Jeff, but how about this. Road overbridge (girder bridge to span all three tracks) which turns after crossing and runs past teh branch line before dropping off the edge of the board. On the other side, it remains on a hill with a turning down towards the station and yard, possibly continuing past it. What about flipping this idea end to end? If you had the bridge at the right hand end of the station, with the road sloping down from right to left into the goods yard it would follow the (theoretical) natural slope of the land down to the valley floor. It would also give you room to get the road bridge in. Al Edit: As its the S&C you need to be prepared for snow, what about a couple of snow plows sat at the ends of opposing sidings? Edited February 8, 2013 by Schubert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 8, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 Sounds like a good idea, but where would the road bridge go? It'd have to be huge to fit across the end of the goods yard and all the curved trackwork. Then, when it got to the front (well) side of the layout, where would it go. No, I'm definitely NOT fitting a bridge at either end. too much of an additional complication. KISS. Applying this principle to the landforms and the human-built constructions. I would have LOVED an underbridge - suggested by Jason a while back. But that would have to be at the viaduct end and I'm limited - not by space - but by the concentration of underboard joists and Cobalts. I can't win, so bye bye bridge. So: I'm going to plan for a cutting at left. I will ALSO build an access manhole into the LEFT corner (near the viaduct). This will allow the far side of the cutting to naturally disappear into the corner. The cut will translate on the near side (nearest the well) into a hiilock, sloping down to a treed field with its platform side several cm lower than the well-side. In the RIGHT corner, I'll build an access manhole with the start of a hillside on it. The access road which passes behind the station, will rise from left to right on a curved path. I'll stick the last batch of photos into Paint to summarise this. Then you can help me revise it.... Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted February 8, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 You sure you don't want to go with my idea Jeff? I drew a sheep on it especially No, you're right, it just complicates things. We're all to blame here, we should have been thinking about these things months ago before you put the boards down 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 8, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 Hi Jason - I loved the sheep. Listen - your underbridge and Peter's quarry ideas are my 2 biggest regrets. I'd love the underbridge - it literally adds another dimension. But if you saw what was under the board at that point you'd go - aaaaargh!! Here's the left corner idea... Jeff I'll move to the middle now. I'm crap at using Paint!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 8, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2013 Middle section.... and that'll do me for now. I'm going into the bunker to have a think!! Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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