RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2013 The main line bit.... Masking tape fixed in place, including the middle section. If I do a "top up" on the track, the 6 foot will get a single layer. PVA applied. Hell fire, this was bl**dy awkward - I'm grateful for the fact that - even if it turns out ok - it's nearly invisible to the casual observer!! I've put ballast onto the "ends" of the mainline section - the middle bit can be done later... I haven't yet hoovered-up the branch section done 5 hours ago. I need to rig up a way to collect the excess ballast from the cleaner first. Jeff 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 If you go to the drawer that you keep your mankini in Jeff and hunt around for some tights, you can stretch those over the... [no, go with me on this one!]... end of your vacuum cleaner pipe, and the grains wont go down into the bag. Maybe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2013 If you go to the drawer that you keep your mankini in Jeff and hunt around for some tights, you can stretch those over the... [no, go with me on this one!]... end of your vacuum cleaner pipe, and the grains wont go down into the bag. Maybe. Dammit! I laddered my last pair of tights earlier this week! Just emptied the cleaner so I'll see what I can rescue shortly.... Btw, I thought YOU borrowed the mankini - you said they were all the rage in Perth, WA!! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Hi Jeff, a cotton handkerchief that you hold over the end and then push into the vacuum cleaner pipe to form an Internal pocket, works perfectly. I got into the habit of hoovering up the excess immediately as that removes any possibility of capiliary action of the PVA forming lumps in the ballast. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2013 Hi Jeff, a cotton handkerchief that you hold over the end and then push into the vacuum cleaner pipe to form an Internal pocket, works perfectly. I got into the habit of hoovering up the excess immediately as that removes any possibility of capiliary action of the PVA forming lumps in the ballast. Thanks Gordon. As I don't have any tights (!!) I'll try it. I emptied the cleaner and - just from the relatively small amount I've done - recovered this lot... Jeff 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Here is the result of today's ballasting. I have only removed a small section of the masking tape as I thought I might need it in case of a "second dose" of ballast. However, the results look pretty good after one go. What do you reckon? I'm going out to do some building work, so I'll reply to any feedback after 10.30pm. Thanks. Jeff Edited July 12, 2013 by Physicsman 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 12, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2013 Andy, I don't think the Midland would have done, the NER may be! Ah, I think I should have been clearer, Certainly the main line would be stone, as the speeds and traffic were heavier and higher, but a branch line is likely to have less of both, so a poorer PW would have been acceptable. Indeed there is a picture of an MR eleccy train on the Heysham branch in 'Our Home Railways' that shows the PW here to have what looks like a cinder bed, with a few larger stones in it, certainly not a stone ballast. In Hamilton Ellis' Midland Railway ther is a plate of a fine Bain clerestory set behind 709 running on the Up fast near Ilkeston Junc. The fast lines are stone but the slow lines are ash/cinder and very noticably poorer than the fast. In The Midland Railway North of Leeds there are two picturesof Hellifield showing the ballast here to be of ash/cinders. In Blue Pullman there is a photo on the Wirksworth branch showing the ballast to be made of small 'fines', not normal sized stone ballast, and the track is very shallowly packed, with the ends of the sleepers very noticably 'out' of the ballast (in 4mm the smp would need to be 'on top' of the ballast to get the effect. In The LMR Then And Now, there is a picture of Ingrow station in 1960 with a decidely none stone ballast, Rolleston Junction shows the same low quality ballast, The Cromford and High Peak Railway was ash/cinder ballasted, the LTS section had poor ballast too. What I am saying is that yes the main line would be the best ballast, but any secondary route would tend to be less well maintained, and have poorer materials used (often lighter section rail and chairs, and secondhand rail often in shorten lengths too), so wouldn't it be good to show this on the model?? Andy G (Climbing down from his high horse) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 12, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Here is the result of today's ballasting. I have only removed a small section of the masking tape as I thought I might need it in case of a "second dose" of ballast. However, the results look pretty good after one go. What do you reckon? 100_3650.JPG 100_3651.JPG 100_3652.JPG 100_3653.JPG I'm going out to do some building work, so I'll reply to any feedback after 10.30pm. Thanks. Jeff Jeff, the results are pretty good sir. I do think though that you could maybe improve slightly... There seems to be a bit of a hump towards the center to the 4 foot with a dip under the rail. Now I know this is from the fact that it is bl**dy awkward to get the ballast under the rail, but if you could get rid of the hump in the middle of the sleeper it will look better. Maybe the way to do this is to go over the top of the origianl ballast each side of the rails, but only say for 4mm each side, so that you will get the effect of the ballast dropping towards the center of the 4 foot? On the branch I think (see above) that I wouldn't have such a defined cess as on the main, and use a much lower grade of ballast. (maybe you could grind the carrs stuff up in a coffee grinder or mortar?). To imitate the poor ballast (above) mix the good stuff (after grinding?) with the ash stuff and then you may get the correct look. I have used in the past the tiny powdered up coal from the bottom of the coal scuttell, this looks very like the low grade ballast, and if you mix it a bit with normal 2mm ballast you get a definate intermeadiate quality effect. When I did my last lot of ballasting I put an old hankie over the end of the hoover pipe and secured with elastic bands. Maybe a better way would be to use a releaseable cable tie? Sorry to be a pain in the arse, but I think the level of work you have put into the rest of the landscape needs to carry on. Details, Details, the devil is in the details! Andy G (stepping off his soapbox this time!) BTW let me know if you need coal powder, I have three scuttells here, so I'm not short of it! Edited July 12, 2013 by uax6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted July 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2013 Jeff, I use a cheapo set of ladies' pop socks, about 5 pairs per box to collect scatter material. The branch ballast looks good and I wouldn't add another layer as it looks fine in the photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Hi Jeff, that ballasting looks really good, Did you remove any webbing from under the SMP or is it as delivered? Bodgit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Reminds me of my Physics teacher of the Upper 6th Form in 1968. "He can do better than this". I echo Andy's thoughts but maybe the ballast in the photo, may be the lighting? looks a little whitish, exacerbating slight uneven-ness where it abuts the sleepers? That said, it's far better than what I could do. Here is my layout around 2006, code 100, 00 track.. and even since then I have never got close to what you have acheived. This is NOT what to do! EDIT; Yes I know it shouldn't be upper-quadrant, too! Not on the GWR. Edited July 12, 2013 by robmcg 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2013 Hi Jeff, that ballasting looks really good, Did you remove any webbing from under the SMP or is it as delivered? Bodgit Andy, I cut the webbing - just nick through with a scalpel/craft-knife - on the outside of each curve. No need to remove it completely. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Is there any simple way to get ballast to stay better under the rails themselves? otherwise I think all is good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2013 OK, re. the ballasting photos. Some comments. The photos were taken 5 minutes before I went out to do a job. I simply removed the masking tape and took the pics. No attempt to clean up the places where ballast has stuck and where it shouldn't be. I'll do that in the next day or so. What I was bothered about was - did it look neat and did I need a second coating to achieve a "deep" look? It looks neat to me and I'm not planning to put any extra on. If I can achieve this in a ridiculously awkward position on the layout then I should manage ok elsewhere. And it looks deep enough - any extra would look OTT - in my opinion. I will apply a cinders cess layer and probably give the ballast a light weathering. On that last point - I don't have an airbrush. Can anyone suggest a quick and simple non-airbrush method to "dirty up" the ballast a little? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 After pricking out any loose bits which 'stand out' it will look the part, certainly. A soft brush with a dryish darkish/dirty grey-brown acrylic could be wiped over the surface after a few days, experimentation would be necessary. Children's art materials/ large soft brush, water based colours. Back to photos, it's easier! Rob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 12, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2013 After pricking out any loose bits which 'stand out' it will look the part, certainly. A soft brush with a dryish darkish/dirty grey-brown acrylic could be wiped over the surface after a few days, experimentation would be necessary. Children's art materials/ large soft brush, water based colours. Back to photos, it's easier! Rob You think in the same way as me, Rob. I've used the "dry wash" technique previously and it has the advantage of adding a bit of random variety to the sleeper colour. I think I'm going to add a small proportion of iron oxide and cinders (both fine grade) into the grey mix as well - more so for the rest of the branch. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I think we may be onto something. I am jealous of your weather. ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2013 How about using a powder brush? These are big and fluffy so will give a good dark area in the middle getting lighter towards the edges. it might also mean that you only have to go over each road once. Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 13, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2013 How about using a powder brush? These are big and fluffy so will give a good dark area in the middle getting lighter towards the edges. it might also mean that you only have to go over each road once. Andy G This sounds like a good idea, Andy..... But what is a powder brush - is it something women use for cosmetics? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2013 Indeed it is, I don't suppose you can 'borrow' one can you? ;-} Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 OK, re. the ballasting photos. Some comments. The photos were taken 5 minutes before I went out to do a job. I simply removed the masking tape and took the pics. No attempt to clean up the places where ballast has stuck and where it shouldn't be. I'll do that in the next day or so. What I was bothered about was - did it look neat and did I need a second coating to achieve a "deep" look? It looks neat to me and I'm not planning to put any extra on. If I can achieve this in a ridiculously awkward position on the layout then I should manage ok elsewhere. And it looks deep enough - any extra would look OTT - in my opinion. I will apply a cinders cess layer and probably give the ballast a light weathering. On that last point - I don't have an airbrush. Can anyone suggest a quick and simple non-airbrush method to "dirty up" the ballast a little? Jeff Morning Jeff, Try DRIBBLING a small amount of VERY watery diluted dirty thinners over a little bit. It might just BODGIT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 (edited) Jeff, by the time I come back from my break next weekend I recon you will be on 300 PAGES and looking good. Not many threads can hold this level of interest for so long and with such diverse advice and areas of interest from supporters all around the world even before the G word has started to be debated. This is testerment to the hard work and dedication you have show to every step of the layouts construction from timbers you can stand on to the individual stones for the walling, I for one know that I could never be so patient for long. Just a brilliant thread, LONG MAY IT LAST, and it does seem to be going on for ever, hahhaaa Bodgit Edited July 13, 2013 by Andrew P 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 13, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2013 Just got back from a visit to the NRM to see "The Great Gathering". Good job we went early - the queues were enormous! Good to see that the event was so well attended and the A4s looked magnificent. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 13, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2013 Jeff, by the time I come back from my break next weekend I recon you will be on 300 PAGES and looking good. Not many threads can hold this level of interest for so long and with such diverse advice and areas of interest from supporters all around the world even before the G word has started to be debated. This is testerment to the hard work and dedication you have show to every step of the layouts construction from timbers you can stand on to the individual stones for the walling, I for one know that I could never be so patient for long. Just a brilliant thread, LONG MAY IT LAST, and it does seem to be going on for ever, hahhaaa Bodgit Cheers Andy - comments much appreciated! Nearly 300 pages and I've only just started ballasting, no g**** and tons more scratchbuilding to do for the station. OMG - what have I created here (images of Frankenstein's monster pop into my head!) Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 13, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2013 Indeed it is, I don't suppose you can 'borrow' one can you? ;-} Andy G I will ask a lady friend of mine....I'll let you know the outcome if I'm still alive! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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