New OO gauge Class 73

[47423]

Still got my pre-order in with hattons for 73205 but the latest running issues are making me think again. Might even venture down to Olivia`s and see it run before i make a purchase.

My local model shop was saying Dapol were`nt the best to deal with but he gets his via Guagemaster instead.

[Guest]

I don't doubt that it can work Paul, it just didn't in my experience. I'm sure you're right that it was a setup error. With hindsight, comparing a building to a plastic model is a little unrealistic too. I know that all maufacturers have fallen foul of livery errors to some extent. I simply don't understand that when it can be done right, it's so often done wrong.

 

Edit: It occurs to me that as not a lot of time passed between the "painted sample" and "production release" that surely something basic was either rushed or skipped in order to get the product in the shops. After such a long wait for the model, another few months wouldn't really have mattered, would it?

Edited December 26, 2015 by Pete 75C

[amwells]

I just had a look through the original pre production Facebook photos again and I think the colours were all wrong on those samples too, yet items that are causing me not to buy (eg the black instead of grey on the intercity version or the purple instead of blue) don't seem to have been mentioned in the comments (they are all about logo / numbering positioning / size.

 

Clearly Dapol should have got these right, but it's interesting that I didn't notice these problems as much as I do now when considering whether to purchase or not.

[jjb1970]

I don't think it is as simple as using the pantone codes for the full size livery as to me when people do that the results invariably look too dark. I know scale colour is not something everybody accepts but I find there is a scaling affect and for a model to look right it generally needs a lighter shade to look right. A particularly notorious colour is british racing green for cars, I know people who've painted model cars in actual BRG and then been shocked by how dark it looks. What people tend to think of as BRG would be a much lighter shade of Brunswick green in 1/43 or other typical car scales. My own personal opinion is that BR blue has a similar problem, it was actually quite a deep, dark blue (at least when it was applied) but in photographs and when viewed at a reasonable distance it looked much lighter.

[driver532]

Please excuse me if I've posted this in the wrong place! (old age). Does anyone know if a speaker can be wired directly to the OO class 73 circuit board? I've looked but can't see anything marked 'sp' or 'spkr'. To be honest, my eyesight isn't wonderful due to cataracts but I'm sure I can still solder two wires to a circuit board - not very confident I could solder to speaker wires to a 21 pin decoder.. Hope someone knows the answer... "Thankyou"

[Hue Jarse]

Yes, there are two pads on the pcb marked LS+ and LS- on the end of the board nearest the motor. They are hidden under the pull off plastic cover that sits over the motor.
 
Be careful how you pull off the cover. Mine was a very tight fit, or was stuck with a little bit if glue, I'm not sure which.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2015 by Hue Jarse

[Butler Henderson]

I don't think it is as simple as using the pantone codes for the full size livery as to me when people do that the results invariably look too dark. I know scale colour is not something everybody accepts but I find there is a scaling affect and for a model to look right it generally needs a lighter shade to look right. A particularly notorious colour is british racing green for cars, I know people who've painted model cars in actual BRG and then been shocked by how dark it looks. What people tend to think of as BRG would be a much lighter shade of Brunswick green in 1/43 or other typical car scales. My own personal opinion is that BR blue has a similar problem, it was actually quite a deep, dark blue (at least when it was applied) but in photographs and when viewed at a reasonable distance it looked much lighter.

The same thing happens with full size buildings, look at a roof tile and then look at an entire roof clad with the tile and the roof will look lighter

[driver532]

Yes, there are two pads on the pcb marked LS+ and LS- on the end of the board nearest the motor. They are hidden under the pull off plastic cover that sits over the motor.

 

Be careful how you pull off the cover. Mine was a very tight fit, or was stuck with a little bit if glue, I'm not sure which.

 

IMG_1380.jpg

Thankyou.

[hoover50008]

I think I must have been relatively lucky with my BR Blue 73 124, whilst the compressor was detached from the underframe upon receipt the rest of it was intact and the buffers appear to be pointing in the right direction.

 

The most annoying thing are the sand pipes on the bogies as these drag on the sleepers causing a clicking noise in both directions, these are either to long or have become unclipped from the bogie frame.

 

The BR blue will always be subjective but there were many variants depending on when they were painted and who painted them so it is difficult to say, have seen worse though.  It will look better once weathered.

 

Seems to run ok over points etc on DC, haven't tried it on DCC yet though.

 

E

[The Bigbee Line]

Can I have a view on the running of these loco's. There have been comments regarding derailments etc. Are these showstoppers or quick fixes?

[Gwiwer]

Can I have a view on the running of these loco's. There have been comments regarding derailments etc. Are these showstoppers or quick fixes?

 

E6007 on DC runs perfectly well here on Peco code 100 track outdoors.  Points are insulfrog and the age and environment mean that the track is now rather uneven in places.  The issues are not the running itself but the bits which fall off or, like the sand pipes mentioned above, which foul where they shouldn't.  And the numerous livery errors and quality control issues .....

 

E6007 was going to be one of two.  She is now going to be one of one unless a subsequent batch is issued with the major issues (at least) addressed.  Or perhaps if the first batch really don't do well and end up at a significant discount making a respray and remedial work less unpalatable.

[driver532]

I'm starting to despair with my model.... my layout is indoors and continuous DDC/Sound. Bachmann, Hornby and Heljan models run perfectly be it fast, slow, shunting speeds over straight line, curves and pointwork. I ran the Dapol 73 (BR blue one) with a Bachmann 21 pin decoder and at various places there was a scraping noise which turned out to be the lifeguards slightly too long. The loco was also juddery through pointwork which I had thought may have been due to the lifeguards. I persisted running it slightly faster than i would have liked for about an hour in each direction and it was still the same. I then fitted the Legomann V4 sound decoder which seems a lot slower through all speed increments and the loco now stops on all pointwork at all but near maximum power... running at any speed merely causes judder over pointwork and a very noticeable 'glitch' in the sound. I have cleaned my tracks and the loco wheels... As you can imagine, £200+ spent and this happening isn't going down very well at all. Has anyone else had the same problem on DCC and overcome it? "Thanks"..

[dibber25]

I don't doubt that it can work Paul, it just didn't in my experience. I'm sure you're right that it was a setup error. With hindsight, comparing a building to a plastic model is a little unrealistic too. I know that all maufacturers have fallen foul of livery errors to some extent. I simply don't understand that when it can be done right, it's so often done wrong.

 

Edit: It occurs to me that as not a lot of time passed between the "painted sample" and "production release" that surely something basic was either rushed or skipped in order to get the product in the shops. After such a long wait for the model, another few months wouldn't really have mattered, would it?

Then I guess you haven't read the thousands of words written on the subject, many of them by manufacturers - I can think of Simon Kohler, and Jason Shron quite recently. Models reflect light and, therefore colour, differently to the full-size vehicle. If you paint a model in the REAL colour it will look too dark. So, you have to make the colour look right on the model. Unfortunately, we all see colours slightly differently and, once you start changing the colour (as you have to) what looks right to you won't necessarily look right to me. We are never going to get agreement over model colours, which is why it's a case of reviewers saying "it doesn't look right" rather than saying 'it is wrong'. (CJL)

[Stevelewis]

Our plans  to  purchase  a couple  of  these  is  definately on  hold  now!

Hopefully  the  problems  may be  rectified  but  I am not all that  confident  that they will.

 

It is  sad  really that new long awaited models  don't live up to expectations, when  other  do  and  sometimes  exceed expectations. 

 

Interesting to note  though  that Dapol motive power does not feature much on our n gauge layouts   at the last  count  I think the total  was 1.

[shanks522]

Can I have a view on the running of these loco's. There have been comments regarding derailments etc. Are these showstoppers or quick fixes?

 

The one i have has been running fine, gradients, reverse curves, complex pointwork all with no problems.

 

 

 

I'm starting to despair with my model.... my layout is indoors and continuous DDC/Sound. Bachmann, Hornby and Heljan models run perfectly be it fast, slow, shunting speeds over straight line, curves and pointwork. I ran the Dapol 73 (BR blue one) with a Bachmann 21 pin decoder and at various places there was a scraping noise which turned out to be the lifeguards slightly too long. The loco was also juddery through pointwork which I had thought may have been due to the lifeguards. I persisted running it slightly faster than i would have liked for about an hour in each direction and it was still the same. I then fitted the Legomann V4 sound decoder which seems a lot slower through all speed increments and the loco now stops on all pointwork at all but near maximum power... running at any speed merely causes judder over pointwork and a very noticeable 'glitch' in the sound. I have cleaned my tracks and the loco wheels... As you can imagine, £200+ spent and this happening isn't going down very well at all. Has anyone else had the same problem on DCC and overcome it? "Thanks"..

 

This is a little worrying, A few hours ago i ordered a Legomanbiffo 73 chip, hopefully all will be ok when it turns up.

 

I've been running mine on a Lenz silver chip and its ok, the only thing i have found is when i drop the throttle to zero it takes the loco a while to come to a stand.

 

Graham.

[luke_stevens]

I'm starting to despair with my model.... my layout is indoors and continuous DDC/Sound. Bachmann, Hornby and Heljan models run perfectly be it fast, slow, shunting speeds over straight line, curves and pointwork. I ran the Dapol 73 (BR blue one) with a Bachmann 21 pin decoder and at various places there was a scraping noise which turned out to be the lifeguards slightly too long. The loco was also juddery through pointwork which I had thought may have been due to the lifeguards. I persisted running it slightly faster than i would have liked for about an hour in each direction and it was still the same. I then fitted the Legomann V4 sound decoder which seems a lot slower through all speed increments and the loco now stops on all pointwork at all but near maximum power... running at any speed merely causes judder over pointwork and a very noticeable 'glitch' in the sound. I have cleaned my tracks and the loco wheels... As you can imagine, £200+ spent and this happening isn't going down very well at all. Has anyone else had the same problem on DCC and overcome it? "Thanks"..

What DCC system are you using?

 

It sounds like there is a capacitor somewhere in the system and the decoder is "fighting" it, thinking it's BEMF from the motor.

 

Luke

[rob D2]

Maybe,

But if you paint a loco black when it's supposed to be grey it's definitely gonna look too dark.

 

There's no excuse when it's obviously wrong

quote name="dibber25" post="2141806" timestamp="1451226164"]

 

Then I guess you haven't read the thousands of words written on the subject, many of them by manufacturers - I can think of Simon Kohler, and Jason Shron quite recently. Models reflect light and, therefore colour, differently to the full-size vehicle. If you paint a model in the REAL colour it will look too dark. So, you have to make the colour look right on the model. Unfortunately, we all see colours slightly differently and, once you start changing the colour (as you have to) what looks right to you won't necessarily look right to me. We are never going to get agreement over model colours, which is why it's a case of reviewers saying "it doesn't look right" rather than saying 'it is wrong'. (CJL)

[lapford34102]

Maybe,

But if you paint a loco black when it's supposed to be grey it's definitely gonna look too dark.

There's no excuse when it's obviously wrong

Quite, Rob.

Where's all this about "scale" colour suddenly come from ? Have they all being doing this for years then ?

 

AFV/Aircraft/etc modellers have been using "scale" colours for ages and there's plenty out on the web about that. Add X% white to for one scale, Y% for another. The rule is smaller the scale the more you lighten the colour. Not sure how Dark grey + white gets to black.

 

Be curious in reading these thousands of words on the subject, someone point me in the right direction please :-)

 

Stu

[Legend]

As Zunnan pointed out earlier it's going to be really interesting reading the mag reviews on this. Such is the level of disquiet on here on various issues , and I'm sure on other forums , you would have thought to give their readers a comprehensive review they will investigate some of the issues or at least mention them .

[LaGrange]

Maybe Dapol need to revisit whatever they use for colour matching with the factory in China as something isn't right. At work we use a system to calculate the colour variance to ensure the product reaches our customers in the correct colour. Maybe the factories should invest in the same or similar technology. If you want to see what I mean visit B&Q's custom paint mixing counter on which there should be an Xrite spectrometer which is used to scan the colour.

 

Its not the 1st time Ive seen models made in China use generic colours rather than the correct shades, Murphy Models 201's in Intercity livery had some very different interpretations of green and yellow to the prototype

[driver532]

What DCC system are you using?

 

It sounds like there is a capacitor somewhere in the system and the decoder is "fighting" it, thinking it's BEMF from the motor.

 

Luke

Its Lenz 100 Luke,  - this is the only loco out of over a hundred sound and non-sound that does this.... I also re-set the Lenz. I've cleaned the wheels again even though there is no obvious sign of dirt or grease. I'm fortunate that I can see if a model is still running whilst I'm in our living room - so now the 73 has the Bachmann decoder back in and is having an hour running in each direction at a fixed speed while I watch tv.... 

[Guest]

Then I guess you haven't read the thousands of words written on the subject, many of them by manufacturers - I can think of Simon Kohler, and Jason Shron quite recently. Models reflect light and, therefore colour, differently to the full-size vehicle. If you paint a model in the REAL colour it will look too dark. So, you have to make the colour look right on the model. Unfortunately, we all see colours slightly differently and, once you start changing the colour (as you have to) what looks right to you won't necessarily look right to me. We are never going to get agreement over model colours, which is why it's a case of reviewers saying "it doesn't look right" rather than saying 'it is wrong'. (CJL)

 

No I haven't. Sounds rather dull, if I'm honest.

[driver532]

Its Lenz 100 Luke,  - this is the only loco out of over a hundred sound and non-sound that does this.... I also re-set the Lenz. I've cleaned the wheels again even though there is no obvious sign of dirt or grease. I'm fortunate that I can see if a model is still running whilst I'm in our living room - so now the 73 has the Bachmann decoder back in and is having an hour running in each direction at a fixed speed while I watch tv.... 

Hopefully, I have solved the problem. Having ran the loco extensively in reverse I tried right direction again and the poor running over points returned. Yet again I cleaned the wheels - but I discovered that one wheel wasn't picking up power. By moving the wheel side to side, power contact was made from time to time. Doubtless not the approved method, I took a fine paintbrush and applied a drop of track cleaning fluid to the 'bush' that the wheel axle protrudes from. I take it the bush is also the contact point for electrical pick up. By using my wheel cleaning power supply I repeated the cleaner application and eventually the wheel transferred power as the others do. The loco has been running for some 15/20 minutes now at various speeds and looks to be performing just fine. Tomorrow I will re-install the sound decoder and see what happens...... Graham.

[letterspider]

So what did they actually say in their email to you?

I have been asked not to copy that exact message on to this forum...but in the reply it is mentions the exact mistake in the Pantone system of the (BR blue and yellow) livery applied (which is the one I enquired about) and what should have been ordered instead.

I did not enquire about other liveries.

You can make of it as you want and I assume they are happy to ride the storm at the moment. Perhaps if the second batch is okay in livery and electronics (and price) and gets to the UK pretty quickly then they can translate the clear frustration of us modellers into sales - I would probably buy one after awaiting positive reviews from members on this forum.

[luke_stevens]

Hopefully, I have solved the problem. Having ran the loco extensively in reverse I tried right direction again and the poor running over points returned. Yet again I cleaned the wheels - but I discovered that one wheel wasn't picking up power. By moving the wheel side to side, power contact was made from time to time. Doubtless not the approved method, I took a fine paintbrush and applied a drop of track cleaning fluid to the 'bush' that the wheel axle protrudes from. I take it the bush is also the contact point for electrical pick up. By using my wheel cleaning power supply I repeated the cleaner application and eventually the wheel transferred power as the others do. The loco has been running for some 15/20 minutes now at various speeds and looks to be performing just fine. Tomorrow I will re-install the sound decoder and see what happens...... Graham.

Good Luck!

 

Luke