DonB Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Like Blackrat, I also did a fag-packet calculation and was surprised at the weight of water in a prototype of that size. I calculated about 70 tons including the tank and its base, for the legs to support. I'm not a structural engineer but I think that the use of 6 legs is a little over-engineered, but it looks OK to me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Just had a read of your bit in BRM. Nicely done Duncan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 My maths isnt very good, I worked it out at about 90 tons or so. Each leg is made up of 2' cast iron piping, with 2 inch cross bracing, with the main struts further braced with solid 9" square steel. My rough ish guestimate was a theoretical max load of about 300 tons, looking at some of the research pics used, and guestimating the tank capacity and the steel being used for each. Also only 1/5th of each tank overhangs, with the central 3/5ths being directly supported, the others having weight displaced through the supporting I girders and steel underslung platform. As an aside, before gluing the legs into place, I did move them about, but they didn't look right! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 16, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2013 Good rule of thumb... If it looks wrong it probably is. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted February 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2013 Good rule of thumb... If it looks wrong it probably is. That's a bit harsh on OG... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I estimated that the tank would never be more than 90% full and added "a bit" for the weight of the tank panels and the tank's platform, (For the legs to support), The platform would result in a evenly distributed load, so considerations of overhang can, I believe , be ignored. Most engineering structures have generous safety factors between 8:1 and 10:1. I don't have access to design parameters for support structures, ( I always had people working alongside me who knew about these things! and when I retired I was happy to leave the books and formulas behind). If you are assuming cast-iron columns then I think they look OK ! To paraphrase Spams.... if it looks right....It probably is! One last point, feed and discharge pipes should not be considered as a "7th leg" but be added to the supported weight. Hope this makes sense! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) Yes Don it does. Haven't been idle today......for a certain Mr Y.... Mains water pipes in, and out, complete with 'flanges'.....lovely word that! Flanges! And somewhere for our little folk to stand on. The handrails are made from acupuncture needles and wire. The tanky bit with another pipe thingy and the access to the tank, (Thought steps would make a change from a ladder). And one bit balanced on top of the other. There's lots of fettling still to do and still a lot more detail to add, some more pipework and some tidying up before painting. We seem to be getting somewhere tho, and hopefully making something that will fit in on the layout? Edited February 16, 2013 by BlackRat 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I am thinking of paintng the tanks, a faded green with red lettering, with greyish legs. Bit of 'rust' colour first, then a layer of Maskol, then spray the top colour. When dry peel the Maskol back to give a flaking paint effect then add some Model Mates rust and some Humbrol weathering powders. For water, I may go for the rippled effect that pva gives................ 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No 6 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 If the dateline is 1960s you could always use Old Gringo's Avatar. He might remember when and where that shot was taken - there again looking as old and careworn as Mr Pastry I wouldn't want to stretch his faculties too far or he might never finish that bridge! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium wagonbasher Posted February 17, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2013 Love the detail... where does Tom Daly stand? Andy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 If the dateline is 1960s you could always use Old Gringo's Avatar. He might remember when and where that shot was taken - there again looking as old and careworn as Mr Pastry I wouldn't want to stretch his faculties too far or he might never finish that bridge! Not sure what you're going to use my Avatar for No.6, but . . For the real SP on when and where that photograph was taken - see post 96 in "Did we really look like this when we were trainspotting?" which is in U.K. Prototype Discussions. Those were the days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted February 17, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2013 Hi Blackrat, Nice to see the details appearing on the tank – but – if I may I may an observation... Open topped tanks were common and are still around. I photographed this one this morning and I have known about it since the 70s. It is roughly twice the area but looks about the same height. (Thus 4 times the capacity.) Two things of note. One: The tank sides are internally braced, at the top above the water line (but not always). This is the cheapest method of stopping the sides being pushed out by the tremendous water pressure. Two: The tank will have always been filled from above. This is to prevent the water siphoning back into the city water when that failed. (Nobody cared about contaminating the city supply by back siphoning (in the 70s – they do now), but they really REALLY cared about their process not losing its' water supply – usually a thursty boiler! The diagonal croos piece in the corner was for the water lever sensing equipment. Kev. (Sorry about the poor photos but there was little, or no, overgrown vegetation then!) 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) For water, I may go for the rippled effect that pva gives................ Make sure of the final orientation and compass direction for the prevailing wind direction when you form the ripples - and the lee side will be less rippled </pedant_mode> May be less trouble to have smooth water and postulate little wind. Edited February 17, 2013 by Coombe Barton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 17, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2013 Not sure what you're going to use my Avatar for No.6, but . . For the real SP on when and where that photograph was taken - see post 96 in "Did we really look like this when we were trainspotting?" which is on page 2 of U.K. Prototype Discussions. Those were the days! Must teach you to do links.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 17, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2013 Make sure of the final orientation and compass direction for the prevailing wind direction when you form the ripples - and the lee side will be less rippled </pedant_mode> May be less trouble to have smooth water and postulate little wind. Mark, which way is Bescot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Mark, which way is Bescot? And Andy's backscene has no smoke on it to give the game away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 17, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2013 And Andy's backscene has no smoke on it to give the game away. I could easily fix that with a spot of weathering.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Must teach you to do links.... Only just worked out how to do replies. Don't go confusing me even more! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Hi Kev, the internal struts are already Sussed using florists wire. I got the idea fom the tv prog where an ex copper converted a water tower to a house on the S&C the struts being quite a part of the structure. I need to model a small rodent to, a la Cuneo..........a black rat sat atop made from Fimo????? Could become a trade mark 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) ALMOST THERE... I have completed the Oldbury Road Building and await the windows before fixing the office, lighting bar and roof permanently in place. Here then are some photos of what it will look like when finished, more or less (the roof will be fixed in place and not floating and there will be a layer of grime added. You will note that the building has been acquired by MLP (see Tennants thread) who have spruced the building up a bit (although I think nothing will completely shift a century of accumulated grot...). And here's a nameboard that proudly presents the new owners... So, once I've received the windows from the BCB lads, it'll be a matter of only a few hours before MLP Building 2 (Oldbury Road) will be ready to plant. Any thoughts, comments? iD Edited February 18, 2013 by iL Dottore 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 MLP PRESS RELEASE "The new Dawkins Laboratory Building is coming in ahead of schedule" announced Dr iD, CEO and head of development at <MLP - Midlands Laboratories Pharmaceuticals>, this morning at a press briefing, "we are just awaiting the installation of the windows, and the installation of the medical gas system and then we will be able to start our preclinical research in our state of the art laboratories" RMWeb's roving reporter managed to get these exclusive pictures.... The entrance: A good view of the finished structure (less windows): Round the back, where all the action is: . Finally, RMWeb is the first to see MLPs state of the art research laboratory, the best 1970s technology money can buy.... What remains to be done, apart from the windows, is - externally - painting the fire escape, adding the external piping runs, adding the medical gas cylinders, cutting and adding internal parapet walls and coping stones: internally - fixing the laboratory in place and connecting up the light bar. The area for the gas cylinders will be glued into place when being placed into the layout. There are locator pins and sockets to ensure a robust and accurate placement: A similar arrangement is in place for the fire escape (which has been modified from the original kit and lengthed): Anyway, once the windows arrive I'll be able to finish the building fairly quickly. In the interim, I'll be running piping and building gas cylinders (painted to the 1970s standard colours for various medical gasses). Your thoughts? iD 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I'm no H&S expert, but flammable materials under a fire escape? I wouldn't like to be escaping from the building when the cylinders explode! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr2 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I'm no fencing expert either, but wouldn't the mesh have been run so the 'holes' were diamond shaped rather than square - looks too easy to climb when run like that, maybe it should be orientated 45 degrees from how it is now? I love the lab though, it's great! Takes me back to my late 70's Uni days...!! keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2013 I'm no H&S expert, but flammable materials under a fire escape? I wouldn't like to be escaping from the building when the cylinders explode! Very effective in motivating people to leave the building when the alarm goes off! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted February 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) Looks superb iD, will really fit well on the layout too, the red bricks being a nice contrast to the blue wall behind it (by Eric's cabin). Paul - will we need a plain white van and some men in white coats ??? Edited February 18, 2013 by Stubby47 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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