Hayfields turnout workbench

[Derekstuart]

It was cheaper, yes. Though I cannot imagine that the manufacturing cost would be much different so why bother with them? Anyway I should have looked more carefully when I bought it.

Probably price, AFAIK you can get 5amp, 10amp and 13amp, the smaller amp ones can use thinner wire so costs less to produce.

[martin_wynne]

would you believe the extension lead to the desk soldering station was the problem? I plugged directly into the mains and now solder is behaving exactly as it should.

 

Hi Derek,

 

Even if the soldering iron was a massive 100 Watts, being a purely resistive load it would draw only about 0.4 Amps at mains voltage. So the difference between a 5-amp or 13-amp rated mains lead is negligible. If it really did make a difference, either you had something else plugged into it too (a fan heater under the desk?), or it is actually faulty with a loose connection somewhere, and you should not use it for anything. Next time it might burst into flames.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

Still do not know the difference between snake and slide

 

Hi John,

 

If

 

1. the template is straight or on a fixed radius (i.e. not a transition curve or slewed)

 

and

 

2. the peg is on the main-road centre-line

 

then there is no difference between snake and slide. And sometimes you might want to roam instead of using either.

 

But if the peg is not on the main-road centre-line, you get a different result. The best way to explain it is for you to try it. Put the peg on CTRL-6 TVJP (the turnout-road rail joint) and then try slide (SHIFT+F9). Then put it back there and repeat with snake (CTRL+F6).

 

If the template is on a transition curve or slewed, there is a big difference between snake and slide. Snake keeps the alignment fixed on the grid, slide takes the alignment with it. The best way to see that is to try it -- a plain track template will do for that. Create a strong S-curve transition or a slew, and then try both snake and slide to see the result. Watch what happens to the transition or slew zone markers in each case.

 

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

Hi John

 

I have two of these extension leads that look identical. 1 is rated at a full 13 amp and the other is lower (can't recall exactly), but I would imagine if I were to use it again the wire would be getting warm (they are in those wind up drum things and I hadn't wound the full length out either).

 

The more important question is surely: Why would anyone make a sub 13 amp extension lead? Or perhaps Why would anyone not read the label more carefully when buying it.

 

 

Derek

 

All I know is not to use wound up extension leads as they get hot and melt, thankfully it was someone else with their own lead

 

 

The benefits of both Templot and Templot Club, with their assistance (especially Martins) this is something close to the Iain Rice's plan, a sort of half scissors rather than an outside slip, bit like a crossbreed dog apparently as its neither a slip nor scissors. Still seems to follow the flow of the plan

Edited October 5, 2016 by hayfield

[hayfield]

Hi John,

 

If

 

1. the template is straight or on a fixed radius (i.e. not a transition curve or slewed)

 

and

 

2. the peg is on the main-road centre-line

 

then there is no difference between snake and slide. And sometimes you might want to roam instead of using either.

 

But if the peg is not on the main-road centre-line, you get a different result. The best way to explain it is for you to try it. Put the peg on CTRL-6 TVJP (the turnout-road rail joint) and then try slide (SHIFT+F9). Then put it back there and repeat with snake (CTRL+F6).

 

If the template is on a transition curve or slewed, there is a big difference between snake and slide. Snake keeps the alignment fixed on the grid, slide takes the alignment with it. The best way to see that is to try it -- a plain track template will do for that. Create a strong S-curve transition or a slew, and then try both snake and slide to see the result. Watch what happens to the transition or slew zone markers in each case.

 

trans_or_slew.png

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

 

Martin

 

I think I get it,  many thanks

[Derekstuart]

Thanks Martin, John.

 

All I can say is that when I plugged it into the mains (or via a different extension, I can't remember) it heated up quicker, melted solder quicker etc. Maybe just coincidence. Though I have stopped using those extension leads now anyway as the plastic around the socket is somewhat soft and not confidence inspiring.

 

Derek

[martin_wynne]

All I can say is that when I plugged it into the mains (or via a different extension, I can't remember) it heated up quicker, melted solder quicker etc.

 

If that is really true, the lead is faulty. You should scrap it.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[N15class]

A coiled extension lead should always be unwound fully before use. If not the coil will work as a resistor and generate heat to dissipate, the energy it is using. This is the same for both light and heavy loading. 

[hayfield]

A coiled extension lead should always be unwound fully before use. If not the coil will work as a resistor and generate heat to dissipate, the energy it is using. This is the same for both light and heavy loading. 

 

 

Derek

 

You had a multi purpose extension lead that doubled up as a heater, 

[martin_wynne]

A coiled extension lead should always be unwound fully before use. If not the coil will work as a resistor and generate heat to dissipate, the energy it is using.

 

The lead will do that whether it is coiled or not. It will obviously reach a higher temperature if closely coiled.

 

Good-quality extension reels have a thermal sensor and reset button built into the reel. You get what you pay for.

 

Having said that, a 100 Watt load is not going to cause any significant heating of any extension lead. If it does, or there was a noticeable resistive effect, the lead is faulty.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

Just add some numbers to that.

 

The dissipated power is proportional to the square of the current.

 

If a reel is rated for 5 amps, and you draw only one tenth of that, 0.5 amps, the dissipated power will be one hundredth of that at 5 amps.

 

So if Derek's lead was rated at 5 amps, and he used it with a 100 watt load, the heating effect would be less than 1/100th of the designed-for maximum heating effect.

 

Martin.

[Derekstuart]

Martin

 

Of course you are right on that, even a very low duty cable would not cause a problem (take a wild guess who was dividing watts and volts the wrong way around...) and so I have assumed that 4 and 2 equals 42.

 

It must be coincidence then. Perhaps I cleaned the soldering iron or changed solder or something at the same time and have concentrated on the wrong thing.

 

John, sorry for making this o/t.

[hayfield]

Derek

 

Cleaning the Iron is a great tip to pass on to folk, and I guess replacing a worn/damaged (tip coating worn away normally by using abrasives) is the real reason, size of tip also affects soldering temperatures as does the size of work/conductivity of the materials

 

I am (have been for some time) thinking I need a new temperature controlled iron, as all I use is a pair of Antex 25 watt irons, plus 3 sizes of tips

 

In addition I need to learn about fluxes, and what temperatures of solder I should be using

 

There we go a whole new thread is needed

[hayfield]

 

Had an EM gauge diamond on the bench. These should be straight forward, you do need a good plan to start with. Position of the Vee tips are crucial, alignment of stock rails should then be easy. Tip of crossing rails are critical, both too long and too short are not good

 

 

Copperclad strips holding everything together

 

 

Strips now cut back to rail sides

 

 

View of completed crossing

 

 

Close up of the K crossing chairs

[PjKing1]

Diamonds crossings, the things of nightmares!! Took me about three months to get mine right

 

Nice work as always John.

 

Cheers

[hayfield]

To be quite honest they can be the easiest thing to build as there are no moving parts, these are the things that are important. An older style SMP plan type is not accurate enough !! check the alignment of the plan with a straight edge first. Though the first time I built one it did take a few goes for the penny to drop

 

1/  A good plan is needed (use Templot with the correct gauge)

2/ A good set of gauges

3/ Vees must match up in position with the plan

4/ Set the stock rails parallell to the vee with gauges

5/ Align the stock rails with straight edges

6/ Make the crossing rails slightly over size, then file to length a little at a time and check. This is the important part, just tack in place until all is OK

7/ Fit check rails to the K crossing

 

The fact is providing both Vees and stock rails are correct you can scribe a line on the timber where the tip of the crossing rail starts. The obtuse (K) crossing if correct does not need check rails, as its a straight line across (curved crossings are a different matter) 

 

The other thing is to remember that the centre of the crossing is a bend in the rail, the gap will be a tad bigger than the gauge, that is why the stock rails are aligned with a straight edge. The Exactoscale P4 Company kits whilst having the 4 crossings pre=made just drops on to locating pips and glued, though it is wise to use the odd gauge

Edited October 12, 2016 by hayfield

[Derekstuart]

John,

 

I know you build your diamonds vee first and second and then build up the rest around it- I think that is the usual way. I built mine (only 2 so far so hardly the World's authority on it) by putting the lower stock rail in, then the vees and then the upper stock rail (by lower and upper I mean closest and farthest from me when working) and then the closure rails. They work fine for me, but perhaps just by luck. Any idea why it is generally advised NOT to follow the method I use?

PS your timber staining- I know you've written about this in the past but I can't find it. Could you possibly remind me, please? That last one looked very good indeed and I will try it again (last time I couldn't get it to take the colour).

 

Thanks.

[hayfield]

I use a spirit based Colron wood stain Jacobean Oak reduced with white spirit

 

I always fit the Vees first so they are dead central, I guess either way is fine, but whenever I try the stock rail first it turns out slightly off centre, thats all

 

I think its the way we all visually see things or I am slightly cross eyed

[Derekstuart]

Thanks John

 

I tried it before and it went into globules. I will try it again- maybe an old batch. PJKing also used the same method as you and he managed to produce some good looking track too, so it must just be me.

[hayfield]

Thanks John

 

I tried it before and it went into globules. I will try it again- maybe an old batch. PJKing also used the same method as you and he managed to produce some good looking track too, so it must just be me.

 

 

I am using an old spirit based stain (not dye) new ones are water based so water is used to dilute

[Derekstuart]

Is that the one they call the 'refined range'?

[hayfield]

Mine is so old its priced in groats

[mightbe]

Hi John,

 

I have a diamond-related question as well. As far as I can tell what I did worked (admittedly a bit of fettling was needed to prevent the flange striking one of the crossing tips; the alignment was ever so slightly off but it was too late to unsolder it). I was making a P4 single slip and I made up everything between the common crossings as two subassemblies, with the second being made "off of the first" (with gauges and all rails carefully pre-curved to match the template underneath etc, but the two were never connected by copperclad strip). I then trimmed the rails to length, laid one common crossing, then the two 'middle' pieces, then finally the second common crossing. The entire formation is on a gentle curve.

 

Why is this approach not recommended?

 

Quentin

Edited October 12, 2016 by mightbe

[Grovenor]

 

Why is this approach not recommended?

Well, most of us only recommend methods we have tried and found satisfactory, which explains why I have not recommended that method. But it sounds to me very similar to the approach recommended by Howard Bolton and gives him very good results.

Regards

[hayfield]

Hi John,

 

I have a diamond-related question as well. As far as I can tell what I did worked (admittedly a bit of fettling was needed to prevent the flange striking one of the crossing tips; the alignment was ever so slightly off but it was too late to unsolder it). I was making a P4 single slip and I made up everything between the common crossings as two subassemblies, with the second being made "off of the first" (with gauges and all rails carefully pre-curved to match the template underneath etc, but the two were never connected by copperclad strip). I then trimmed the rails to length, laid one common crossing, then the two 'middle' pieces, then finally the second common crossing. The entire formation is on a gentle curve.

 

Why is this approach not recommended?

 

Quentin

 

 

Quentin

 

I do my best to pass on tips which work for me, overtime I do sometimes adopt other alternative methods. If a system works for you unless you believe there is a better method don't change.

 

This is the reason I do it this way  "whenever I try the stock rail first it turns out slightly off centre, that's all" I prefer to have the Vee(s) dead centre and gauge the other rails form it/them,  I believe and been told by others this is very important with crossings, not so much with turnouts

 

I did not mean to imply other methods are inferior, or you have to do it my way. The main thing is "does it work!!" if so that's fine with me and I am more than happy to receive tips and good ideas from anyone. I build the obtuse (K) crossings in situ, others build them as free standing units. Both methods work well