Tim Hale Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Apart from M7's and H's (not sure about the latter) was any other motive power* used on the Maunsell P+P units in P+P mode? Tim *I am fully aware of their use on the Brockenhurst-Ringwood-Bournemouth shuttle behind whatever Bournemouth could muster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 The SR had an allocation of Ivatt 2MTs for some of branch lines. I know some of these were P+P fitted but I don't know if the SR examples were or if they were actually used with these sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
90rob Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 There does appear to be an H in pp mode with set 602 at http://www.semgonline.com/coach/pp_01.html Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 The answer is 'no'. The LMS Ivatts had a different form of p-p gear so had to work these coaches as normal stock. JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
90rob Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Lymington fireman Ray Glassey bemoans the lack of pull push on Ivatts 41290-41319 in 'Southern Way' issue 2 "The push pull days were the best. When they took that away life became a real scramble, running round at each end of the journey. Those Ivatts would have been ideal for push pull." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 So, just the M7 and H classes. I travelled in one of the last sets on the Brockenhurst shuttle behind a BoB, running in reverse. A waste of motive power as we were the only passengers from Brockenhurst to Ringwood. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Some of the pull-push fitted O2 tanks seem to have lasted until about 1960/61 but I've never seen a photo of one with the Maunsell sets: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56597-adams-o2/ None of the Ivatt tanks on the Southern had the vacuum operated push-pull gear, but the 10 standard class 2 tanks did. Obviously it was never used, for reasons already explained. All of the other air control fitted Southern tanks had gone by the time the Maunsell sets came along. If memory server me right, examples of D1, D3 and the Chatham R/R1 tanks had this equipment. I've seen photos of them in non-pull-push mode behinds E4s, and at least one of the driving coaches was used as a loose coach on the Hayling line behind a Terrier. I've yet to see a photo of one behind a class 33, but that did happen with some of the pre-group pull-push sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted June 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2012 I agree with Pete and the others that only M7's and H class tanks ended up being used with the BR(s) conversion pull push sets as I have not seen evidence of O2s being run with them as these BR sets did not make it to Plymouth where the remining fitted O2s were generally found. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamTom Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Regarding pull-push fitted M7 tanks: grateful for any info. Were they fitted at both ends for PP, like at least some GW locos (so that they could run sandwiched between PP coaches) or were they fitted only at the one end? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 All SR locos fitted with the Southern's standard air-worked pull and push equipment (as opposed to locos still fitted in the 1920s with the ex-LSWR system) could work pull and push either way round. However, there does seem to have been a very strong preference among loco crews for working with the bunker end attached to the stock and that is certainly what happened normally. On most lines, there was also a preference as to which end of the train the loco should be, probably because it made taking water easier; photos of trains the "wrong" way round are commoner for some lines than others, and non-existent for at least some. Most Southern pull-and-push units comprised two bogie carriages, sometimes only one was used, and sometimes a single "fitted" third (later second) was added between the loco and the unit. The Southern also had a few "fitted" utility vans (and earlier some pre-grouping former NPCS brake vans) which could be used between the loco and the unit. Working pull-and-push units fore-and-aft of the loco was permitted, but I think that the only example that I definitely know of was on the emergency shuttle service east of Faversham after the Kent Coast line was severed by the floods of January 1953. I'd forgotten that the Brighton-West Worthing shuttle was also worked two-in-front, two-behind at peak periods in the last few years before electrification. It certainly wasn't unknown for tail traffic, a van or horse box, for example, to be added to the rear of a pull-and-push train, either behind the unit or the loco according to the direction of travel. Obviously such vehicles had to be removed before the train could make its return journey. Again I had forgotten that through carriages (sometimes several, and occasionally other companies') were commonly worked by attachment at the rear of a branch pull-and-push train. Several additions by later edit - all in italics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 16, 2015 Seaton Branch. M7 Loco at Seaton Junction end bunker to stock. 1960 till WR took over in 1963. Loco and coaches still attached often shunted milk tankers around the station site! That's all I know. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted April 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 16, 2015 Regarding pull-push fitted M7 tanks: grateful for any info. Were they fitted at both ends for PP, like at least some GW locos (so that they could run sandwiched between PP coaches) or were they fitted only at the one end? They could, but IIRC the Southern's preference was to insert a suitably equipped coach between the loco and the PP set at busy times (in the same manor as the utility vans mentioned above) rather than create a 'loco sandwich' The other thing to remember is that the GWRs mechanical linkage was a heavy beast and as such I believe if you tried to add more than 2 coaches behind the loco, it made trying to operate the regulator from the leading coach virtually impossible. The air system used by the SR had no such restrictions however so again, adding the coach between the PP set and the loco wasn't a issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlesea John Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 One of my earliest memories (which I reproduced on my first layout aged 7 using my Tri-ang Jinty and 3 short Tri-ang coaches)was seeing the "Horsham Flyer", the Brighton to Horsham train stopped at Shoreham with a loco pushing 2 red coaches and pulling a red and cream corridor brake coach. No way could I say what loco or coaches - I was only 7 after all - but that memory has stayed with me. Not the later converted Maunsell sets as they were always green.. As an aside, E4s often pulled the Horsham trains using the 600 series Maunsell 2-sets but obviously not in P/P mode. Presumably M7s or Hs were unavailable. I have lots of photos in books of this including one where an E4 brings the train in to Brighton and another takes it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Regarding pull-push fitted M7 tanks: grateful for any info. Were they fitted at both ends for PP, like at least some GW locos (so that they could run sandwiched between PP coaches) or were they fitted only at the one end? The Middleton Press book on the Hawkhurst branch reports that the 8.06pm from Hawkhurst regularly ran with the engine sandwiched between the coaches and a van/vans or another coach. Sadly no photos. It's referring to the last few years of operation (the branch closed in 61). The motive power by this time on PP trains was H Class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I've yet to see a photo of one behind a class 33, but that did happen with some of the pre-group pull-push sets. There's always one... 'The Southern Way', Issue 18, Page 17. The bottom photo (dated 'just before the sub-branch closed in December 1961') shows D6553 hauling a Maunsell PP set on an Allhallows-on-Sea branch train - the caption describes it as 'a clear case of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut'... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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