Grantham - the Streamliner years

[61070]

I've heard again from the Lincs Film Archive.  There's no date in their records associated with the film clip other than the year, 1937, but they do think that it's likely to be the first day of the service.  They have a shot of the Silver Jubilee, also made in 1937, but it isn't out on any of their DVDs because, they say, the Coronation shots are much better pictorially.

 

Thanks very much for the details of the log - it's good to hang on to such things.  I'm not sure that there's a complete reference collection of The Railway Gazette in the NRM library, or anywhere else that's publically accessible, so you could have a real archive treasure there!  If departure from King's Cross was on time (as surely it would have been) then Grantham was passed just after 5:25.  In the film the hands of the clock in the 'box show 5:32, so I expect the signal box interior shots were made just after the passing of the train was safely captured on film - though they've been placed before it in the edit.

 

Have you seen this photo?  http://historypassage.com/html/ostphotomax7.html ?  No.4491 is seen approaching Barrowby Road 'box in the down direction, again in gleaming 'fresh out of the box' condition - just look at the carefully sculpted burnishing of the buffer heads.  I'm wondering now whether it's yet another candidate for being taken on 5/7/1937?

[LNER4479]

Thanks once again John,

 

Love the Barrowby Road pic of 4491. Is it 5.7.37? Certainly has the potential to be. My observation is that there is no exhaust. That might be lost against the background of the light sky but more likely this would 'fit' with the loco having 'shut off' and slowing for the pws that the log refers to - the driver appears to be looking out, possibly for the start of the pws sighting board? Either that or he's already drifting and waiting for the 'T' board. Have you noticed the end of a brake van extreme right of the picture?

 

I had the same thought as you re the time of the clock in the signal box; almost certainly filmed after the train had passed!

 

Next time we have the Coronation set visiting Grantham, I shall specially request 4491 and see how closely I can replicate the bit of film from the signalbox!

 

To 'celebrate' your posting being reply #400(!), here is a bit of crummy mobile phone film I took of the layout recently - just trying things out (all signals, buildings packed away so it's a bit plain!)

Edited May 13, 2013 by LNER4479

[61070]

Well that's a cracking piece of film too - a 'talkie' in full technicolor!  Another thing it might be possible/interesting to re-create on your layout given the space you have is filming as from an aircraft keeping pace with a train.  The possibilities could be endless... 

 

One thing I meant to say re. the full 30sec clip is that in the shot showing the starting signals being lowered there seems not to be a loco at the head of the train in the Nottingham platform (5), though the 'suspected milk tank wagon' is there.  There is, though, what appears to be a tank loco with a van, or a brake van, moving slowly forward on one of the adjacent lines.  At first I thought that it might be preparing to reverse onto the train in platfrom 5, but the loco seen there as No.4491 passes appears to be a tender engine.  Hard to say though.

 

I have a larger copy of the '4491 at Barrowby Road' image which its contributor kindly sent me.  I've 'enhanced' the sky area with photoshop and can find barely any trace of exhaust, so your theory carries some weight.

[LNER4479]

Only a modest amount of progress to report on (more of which anon).

 

Work has proceeded on the end of Board 4a, trying to 'blend in' Springfield road and the access to the down goods yard.

 

This is what I'm trying to achieve. Unfortunately, the cut of the baseboard didn't leave enough room (doh!) for a vehicle to get alongside a coal wagon for the (very modest) coal yard I want to depict. So here, I'm using pieces of polystyrene to both pack the whole think out and shape the slope of the ground. The incline of the access road has ended up being hopelessly steep (about 1 in 5). I'm not sure I'd like to be the driver of a horse-drawn cart making it down there with a full load of coal   My problem though is that if I extend this area too extravagantly I eat into the space for the loco shed (to the left) - not prepared to do that, so the horses will have to suffer!

 

My reconnaissance trips to the spot show remnants of some stockade-like fencing so I'm using this idea to shore up this little bit of embankment. Here, I'm using some left over offcuts of the bass wood sheets I used for the platform tops, scored and with the tops shaped in a sawtooth shape. The originals may well have been recycled sleepers (anyone know?)

 

And in position. That's looking a little more like it, quite pleased with the effect so far.

 

As I say, only a modest return since last posting. My excuse is that I've been slaving away with a paint roller for most of my spare time recently (my 'penance' for having the chapel model railway room); but this has now borne fruit as we 'moved in' to the new upstairs over the weekend! Following on from this, we are now expecting a visitation from esteemed parent in a few weeks time, who will be expecting a running session on Grantham  so I've now got a little 'snag list' of things to do on the layout in preparation for that. So stand by for some more layout-centric postings to come.

Edited May 13, 2013 by LNER4479

[Alister_G]

That's looking great!

 

Will your Faller road system be going up that incline as well?

[LNER4479]

That's looking great!

 

Will your Faller road system be going up that incline as well?

 

Er... no! Did think about it in the planning stage but the incline has definitely killed it off now. The Faller vehicles can cope with only modest slopes in my experience and there'll be enough of them as it is (after going UNDER the railway at this point, they'll have to gained altitude so as to go OVER the railway about 5 feet further along (Great North Road bridge) so watch out for that one in the future (lends itself quite well to video this sort of stuff).

[Jack P]

I like the video, really shows that it is such an awesome layout. Are some of those carriages in that fantastically long train, articulated sleeping coaches?

[LNER4479]

Hi Jack,

 

What you see in the Vid is an articulated triplet dining set and it is what I would call a representative day set, of the following formation:

BG-FK-RTS-TK-TK-BTK

 

The train is heading south, with the BG behind the loco. The Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS) is arranged so that the First dining saloon is next to the FK (and hence the Third dining saloon next to the TK), ie full class separation and with First Class at the London end (less distance for the well-heeled gentry to walk at King's Cross!) In other words, basically the same formation as an East Coast MkIV or HST set of today! The LNER seemed to be quite forward-thinking in this regard.

 

Steve Banks wrote a series of articles in the lamented Modellers BackTrack on LNER coaching stock formations (which look to have been amplified in his recent tome) and I have used these as a reference source, plus hours of fun looking at pictures of the era and trying to work out the formations. The formation above is in essence a condensed version of the classic Flying Scotsman sets, which had 2 FKs and 4 TKs but otherwise same formation arrangement.

 

The triplet sets were generally used on the longer distance (Newcastle and Edinburgh) services, where they would be expected to serve two separate meals during the course of the journey, hence the greater capacity. For mid-distance (eg Leeds) where only one meal was involved then the catering core was generally two vehicles, classically a Restaurant First (RF) plus Third Open (dining). I'm working on that... (oh that Hornby would add the RF to their range to counter-balance the rather too hackneyed Buffet coach - well, it's got at least one vote in the 2013 on-line poll!)

 

So you could say a bit of thought has gone into it! Some of the coaches don't stand up to too much close scrutiny though - the RTS is a 30-year old PC kits affair I acquired some years ago (pre-Grantham) which I had the sixth sense to hang on to  (see #56)

Edited May 14, 2013 by LNER4479

[Guest bri.s]

Excellent modelling and love the video it really does show the size of the layout

Keep up the good work will be watching for updates

Brian

[LNER4479]

Parental presentation preparations persist (been working on that all day!) - aka LNER4479 senior is visiting soon!

 

Bit of a tracklaying 'faux pas' here. Although trains generally run well round the layout (see video!), this has turned out to be something of an accident blackspot with too frequent derailments - not something that can be tolerated with an exhibition layout. I have committed a cardinal sin   - not only is this a reverse curve but there's also a change of gradient involved. What you're looking at here is the up main (centre) as it enters the fiddle yard from the south. It has completed a 90deg curve (at the regulation 3 foot radius) and climbed some 3/4inch. The reason for the latter is apparent in the left hand side of the picture - there is a grade separation installed so as to allow the up relief line to 'fly over' the fiddle yard to gain access to the Nottingham fiddle yard (thus completing an alternative circuit, mainly for coal traffic). Anyhow, the combination of reverse curvature, change of grade and the longitudinal 'pull' of a long-ish train was all too much and the leading bogie of a passenger train kept popping off on the Y-point (which more or less coincides with the change of grade).

 

The reason why the track was aligned as it was was to maximise the available space for the dead-end fiddle yard sidings (at the top of this picture). In hindsight, what little extra space was gained was not worth introducing a derailment risk. Here the circuit has been severed (aarghh!) and the proposed revised alignment shown. Crucially, this now allows for the all important length of straight to break up the reverse curve; this straight will now coincide with the change of grade. The only down side is a more tortuous path for any goods train on the up relief crossing back to the up main - but that is the lot of a slow moving goods train!

 

An additional sliver of 9mm ply has been added to provide the necessary trackbed support.

 

Track going back down (phew!)

 

The Pullman set (one of the persistent offenders!) demonstrates the newer, more gentler alignment. That's better! (Father has installed a strict discipline into his offspring when it comes to good running!  )

 

Meanwhile, over at the loco depot, a serious piece of tracklaying is about to break out! I've been 'stuck' for a few months, saving my pennies for a new 3-way point but this has now been acquired and, together with some recovered plain track from Gowhole, there is now enough track on hand to complete the loco depot and the adjacent goods yard. the track is just 'plonked down' for now to check alignment, positioning, etc.

 

'Robert' surveys the scene from a 'classic' Grantham shed vantage point (sat outside the New shed). I love the sheer depth of the layout at this point (over 4 foot wide) and I count 18 lines from front to back, with at least another three to be added in the down goods yard (far distance) in due course. Loco depot, goods yard(s), through goods lines, carriage sidings, relief lines, main lines - a complete railway 'scene' (albeit horribly condensed in some places).

 

Finally (for now), thought I'd share this with you for no other reason than sheer exuberance. This is the view that greets me every time I enter the chapel model railway room (albeit with a bit of telephoto).

 

'Robert'

Edited May 22, 2013 by LNER4479

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

So happy to see some Grantham updates.  More glorious trackery, and the 18 track vista is stunning.  Thats one of the key elements for me of a steam era railways - track everywhere!  Not like the modern weed fringed thin ribbon of the modern railway.

 

And I love the telephoto shot - I'm imagining this in its 'finished' state, you will actually be able to shoot classic 3/4 tele shots of big engines on lengthy trains.

 

And to think I'm feeling intimidated by my soon to arrive 16'x8' railway room....

[The Stationmaster]

Do I spy something which looks rather like Peco foam underlay - the stuff shaped to accept sleepers?  Or is it by someone else?  The reason I ask is that the Peco stuff has (or definitely used to have) a limited lifespan after which it started to disintegrate; I reckon probably about 20 years, maybe a bit less.

[LNER4479]

Yes Mike, the very stuff. I used it on my previous layout (Gowhole) and got about 12-15 years out of it in a quite aggressive loft environment. I'm hoping for slightly better performance on Grantham but it does have a finite life. The good thing though is that you don't damage the track when replacing it. And I just love the quiet 'whoosh' sound you get of a train passing. Each to his own.

[JCL]

I just love the quiet 'whoosh' sound you get of a train passing.

I have to admit, mine can sound like a bandsaw when a trip train is going full thresh on the mainline.

[LNER4479]

Well father has been and gone and the layout had a good run. We had a go at working our way through a timetable sequence (based on summer 1938) so what follows are some scenes as the cameraman followed the action.

 

We start at an exciting moment. It’s just gone 1pm and the southbound Scarborough Flier passes the northbound Queen of Scots Pullman. As neither are booked to call at Grantham it’s a case of ‘stand well back from the platform edge’. Without any visiting locos, my choice of stock is a little limited, hence Tornado being pressed into action to maintain the service!

 

Barely 10 minutes later and the southbound Yorkshire Pullman is due through, following in the wake of the Flier. Headed by an Atlantic (for so long the mainstay of these services) and again passing through non-stop, the train is running well with the climb of Stoke bank immediately ahead. In the loco change siding, Grantham’s A4 4494 Osprey waits for the following train.

 

It’s 1.31pm and the Doncaster-King’s Cross semi-fast has arrived. This was a popular running in turn for the Plant and here B17 2864 Liverpool - reeking of new paint - pulls forward to reverse back across to the down main. The ground signal for the move can be seen to the right of the tender. Meanwhile, the A4 (a surprising choice to take this working forward?) moves out to take the B17’s place.

 

If you look closely, you can see that the ground signal has rotated to show a green aspect (although the green itself doesn’t show too clearly from this angle) and the B17 duly reverses back (through the crossover formed by the two ‘trailing’ single slips)…

 

…and away to the north end where it will access the shed for turning. The A4 is being hooked on, in preparation for departure. The timetable shows that this service was due to stop for just four minutes so signalman and traincrews had to be pretty slick performing a move like this.

 

Whilst all that was going on, a goods train has eased into the yard from the south. This is the 1.15pm iron ore train from High Dyke, hauled by an O4 running tender first as there were no turning facilities at the exchange sidings five miles away. For now, my iron ore train is made up with every other wagon as a hopper of some description, ‘padded out’ with ordinary (wooden bodied) mineral wagons. It at least gives a characteritic pre-war randomness to the look of the train. You'll have to imagine that the wagons are loaded for the time being

 

The loco was (apparently) allowed 15 minutes to go on shed and turn before the train continued on its way. Now facing the right way the O4 regains the mainline, right away for Frodingham. It will turn off the ECML the other side of Peascliffe tunnel at Barkston then pick up the line via Honington to Lincoln. Meanwhile, the B17 has had to wait for this move to take place, so only now can she get on shed!

 

As there is now a small lull in proceedings, our photographer is tucking into his corn beef sandwiches and Tizer. He’ll be back shortly!

 

'Robert'

Edited June 10, 2013 by LNER4479

[JCL]

Hi Robert, those photos are great! I like the colour of your track.

 

oh, and I'm green eyed with envy over your Atlantic.

[andyrush]

Nice photos, but EMPTIES from High Dyke to Frodingham? 

 

Andy

  

[jukebox]

Wonderful photos yet again - thanks for sharing.

 

One question: what is the heritage of the B17 Liverpool?  I only ask because the polished handrail and smokebox dart are a distraction to me, even for an ex-works loco - I want to reach out with a 000 brush and some matt black enamel and tone them down!

 

Keep the posting coming - always great to see more of Grantham.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[LNER4479]

Nice photos, but EMPTIES from High Dyke to Frodingham? 

 

Andy

  

Oops, of course! - caption duly altered (sackcloth and ashes)

[LNER4479]

Wonderful photos yet again - thanks for sharing.

 

One question: what is the heritage of the B17 Liverpool?  I only ask because the polished handrail and smokebox dart are a distraction to me, even for an ex-works loco - I want to reach out with a 000 brush and some matt black enamel and tone them down!

 

Keep the posting coming - always great to see more of Grantham.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

Thanks Scott,

 

There are several anomalies with Liverpool! In terms of the model, it's a bit of a mongrel - the body is a Cornard whitemetal kit which I acquired from a model builder's collection some fifteen years ago. It's an old kit, dating from the era where true to scale dimensions were more 'approximate' than now. It is a bit of a 'pet' loco (my son supports said football team!) so I was happy to apply embellishments such as pristine handrails etc.

 

Prototypically, there are further anomalies. It is painted in the Darlington shade of green and has painted cylinder covers (in Darlington style). 2864 was one of a batch built by Robert Stephenson & Company in 1937. There is a 'works portrait' picture of 2862 in the Nock British Steam Locomotives of the 20th Century (Vol2), p10 in pretty much the exact condition I've turned 2864 out in. Which begs the question what is it doing on a running in turn from Doncaster if it is painted in 'as new' Darlington style?!

 

The answer is that it's my layout!

[jukebox]

Pesky reality intervening again!

 

By modelling a (ficticious) location that is "somewhat near Darlington", I'm going to allow myself all sorts of absurdities and anachroisms on running in turns from Darlington to Stockrington!  Bring on the K4, I say!

Edited June 10, 2013 by jukebox

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

C'est Magnifique!  

 

One question - why did the B17 reverse along the Down line to the signal box and then use the Nottingham Line junction to access the Engine Shed roads, rather than carry on over the double-slips and round the back of the platforms (platform 1?) so avoiding the main line?

[LNER4479]

C'est Magnifique!  

 

One question - why did the B17 reverse along the Down line to the signal box and then use the Nottingham Line junction to access the Engine Shed roads, rather than carry on over the double-slips and round the back of the platforms (platform 1?) so avoiding the main line?

Good question! The immediate answer is 'I don't know'. All pictures I've seen of the south end loco change show the relieved loco backing through the down main, in some cases, even following behind a departing express on the down main (and hence being held at the north end signal until the signals/points were reset).

 

The back platform (or the down relief road) - it was numbered platform 5 actually; nowadays it's platform 4 - was quite busy with local services and shunts to/from the carriage sidings throughout the day. The 1938 timetable shows a 1.30 departure to Derby; also it can be argued that to cross over to the down relief blocks the down main equally as effectively(!) Perhaps the down main was viewed as the most efficient way to get it to the north end and the Nottingham lines (out of harm's way?)

 

I am however very happy to be corrected by those who knew the place - anything to make the depiction as accurate as possible

[JCL]

 

The answer is that it's my layout!

 

I'm with you there!

[CUTLER2579]

In all my times on Grantham station and there were many, I always saw Locomotives run through Platform 3 to access the Engine Shed. I do not recall seeing a single movement through platform 5 (which is the platform "Dr Gerbil-Fritters" calls Platform ! ?) and yet it always puzzled me as to why such a movement was never carried out whilst I was present or indeed any of my many friends..