Grantham - the Streamliner years

[LNER4479]

I didn't get over to Nottingham either - been laid up with the flu for a week now

 

Can't believe I missed mini-Grantham and Borchester... 

And I had all my trackwork research files specially looked out for you...  Get well soon; I'm sure there'll be another opportunity before too long

 

In case you were wondering (you probably weren't but I'll tell you anyway!) we've had the builders in big time over the last two months doing the first floor conversion work. The chapel model railway room has been used as a materials store, etc(!) making any layout running or building quite impossible. They finished last Friday so it all needs a thorough clean and sort out - and then I think there'll a celebratory 'return to service' run! So look out for pictures of that.

 

BTW - we haven't actually got a bad word to say about our builders; they were brilliant. Nice to know that there are some decent workmen out there (contrary to popular opinion!).

[Mallard60022]

OT I know but maybe those builders would be willing to travel a way for decent work? However, if they are good they are probably booked and in no need of work elsewhere?

P @36E

P.S. I am also very sorry not to have seen you at NM. 

[LNER4479]

Definitely OT, but what the heck!

 

These two views taken from approx the same viewpoint! This is to be our bedroom. No-one can quite believe the mirror-like finish of the plastering that was subsequently applied

 

Would love to put more work their way; they are 51A based so not sure how far they might travel. If anyone is interested in more details PM me.

 

Equally sorry to have missed you at Nottingham 60022 (your webbed feet would have come in very handy in that playing field on Saturday afternoon  ). Look forward to a further occasion.

Edited March 20, 2013 by LNER4479

[61070]

This programme has 6 seconds of footage showing the north end of Grantham station before the platforms were lengthened: 07:05 to 07:11.  No.4491 gets the starring role - now she's what I call a real iron lady!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01s4f88/Margaret_Thatcher_Prime_Minister/

 

If you pause it during the clip there's lots of detail to observe, and you can do a 'PrtScn' to save a still image.

[LNER4479]

Thanks John - that's another cracker you've pointed me to!

 

Not only a lovely piece of film in its own right but I've done a 'PrtScr' as you suggest for my records. I've taken this from the start of the sequence as it reveals some wonderful details of the 'Up' bay platform (now long gone). The configuration was completely different pre-war so this shows some vital details, including some rather dodgy-looking trackwork(!) at the platform end, where the trailing connection to the Up main crossed Platform 1. I simply haven't seen it from this viewpoint before (the train that is usually the object of the photographer's attention always obscures the immediate background). Also revealed for the first time (well for me at least) is the profile of the canopy extension at this end. I understand that this collapsed under the weight of snow during an immediate post-war winter (1947 probably) so agains rarely appears on photographs - fantastic stuff.

 

Have you noticed the train in platform 5? It appears to have a milk tank immediately behind the loco. I understand that milk tanker wagons were only just being introduced at this time (prior to this date it was churns in a dedicated milk van) but one of their first uses apparently was to serve the creameries on the ex-GN Uttoxeter-Stafford route. It's possible therefore that this is a Nottingham train (there was a 5.48pm departure in this direction, which would coincide with the down Coronation passing time), working an empty back? Anybody confirm (or otherwise).

 

Putting aside the 'love or loathe' (I'm not even going to think about going there!) it is an historical fact that Grantham is the home town of the lady who wasn't for turning and there is a plaque on the wall of the old corner shop denoting the fact. The property is across the other side of town from the station and thus well away from the footprint of my model. However, it seems far too distinctive a detail to let a little bit of geography get in the way! Accordingly, I have appropriately adorned the corner shop that is on the end of the row of terraces I'm building (apologies for rather crappy photo).

 

 

In 1937 (my target year), Margaret Hilda Roberts would have been a 12 year old so we might stretch to a little cameo of father plus 12-year old daughter standing on platform 2, waiting to catch a train to London...

 

Been a bit quiet on postings since Nottingham - been quite busy on 'other stuff', but progressing on a few Grantham fronts notwithstanding. I'll do a few update postings shortly.

Edited April 10, 2013 by LNER4479

[Markeg]

I think thats a fitting touch for the late 'Iron Lady.'

 

Mark in Oz

[Rich5ltr]

Wasn't Alf Roberts place in Coronation Street rather than Grantham ;-)

[Alister_G]

I see Alf was an early proponent of Horseburgers, then.

 

Nice little shop, what have you used for the brickwork, is that scalescenes paper?

[LNER4479]

Wasn't Alf Roberts place in Coronation Street rather than Grantham ;-)

Where? Never heard of it...

 

I see Alf was an early proponent of Horseburgers, then.

 

Nice little shop, what have you used for the brickwork, is that scalescenes paper?

Ooh, very sharp (re the horsebox)

 

The shop is on the end of the following row of terraces:

 

This was a 'free gift' with - I think - an issue of Model Rail many moons ago. I stuck it in my 'scenery' box and had clean forgotten about it. It was only when rooting around for something else that I rediscovered it! 'Perfect', I thought, as I knew by then that I needed a row of terrace houses on the 'town' side of Harlaxton Road. They must have been demolished in the 1960's/70's so it relies on research to recreate them accurately. You can see the odd glimpse of a bit of them now and then in the corner of a photograph but I don't think I'll ever get to see a clear 'front on' view taken from down at road level so this depiction will do for me.

 

The basic kit had no roof (or chimney stacks) and was only thinnish card, so I've reinforced it with 1mm card sheet and added internal walls to keep the shape. As pantiles are pretty common in Lincolnshire, I bought some packs of Wills sheets and clad it with them. I've since painted roof and chimneys but still need to add gutterings, etc and the whole row needs to be 'set' into the board.

 

Not quite in Jason (Sandside)'s league but I quite like them

Edited April 11, 2013 by LNER4479

[JCL]

Those houses look just the job - and the pantiles definitely place them in Lincolnshire. Mind you, Grantham was so far from my neck of the woods, it was practically abroad!

[LNER4479]

Time to get back to some layout building (the Chapel Model Railway room having been effectively ‘out of bounds’ whilst the builders were at large).

 

Remember this?

 

Board 4a (as it is designated) got completed only so far during the Xmas challenge, so best get round to finishing it off! Some further carpentry pictures follow, seeing as they went down such a storm last time (well, one or two were interested!)

 

Here is the closure piece. I’ve made a bit of an effort to make it look quite nice as it will be on view!

 

What you’re looking at is a piece of 6mm ply as the facia, screwed and glued to a piece of 9mm ply to brace it. The 6mm has a series of vertical saw cuts part way through to encourage it to bend a bit more than it really wants to. The 9mm piece also is also required to bend halfway along (again, you can see the ends of the saw cuts) as not only does it brace but also forms the support for the road surface, which is level on the left but falls away slightly on the right.

 

Here is it in being fixed into place. You can see how the 9mm ply bracing piece is also supporting the roadway.

 

Meanwhile, here is a picture of a piece of wood on a table! However, this is about to become a leg.

 

All Grantham boards have integral legs, hinged to fold away beneath. First of all a cut is made at the required hinge point (in this case 4 inches from the top)

 

I plane a slight chamfer on the end as the butt hinge doesn’t sit quite flat.

 

See?

 

Having positioned the hinge so its axis aligns with the saw cut and marked the holes, here I’m drilling the pilot holes for the screws. This is a 65mm hinge for a 70mm wide leg

 

With the hinge attached, the leg is positioned in its intended foldaway position prior to it being attached to the board.

 

And folded out, ready for the board to be re-attached to the layout.

 

That’s better!

 

Fixing the roadway in place is the next job, but that’s all for now. Back soon…

 

'Robert'

[Kenokie]

Robert

 

As one of the “one or two”      who like your woodworking deliberations I am now curious about the foldaway legs.

 

Are you intending to exhibit Grantham in the future?

 

Chris

[jukebox]

Carpentry - the neccesary evil before you can have some proper fun.  Being in the same boat - or is that "sawmill"??? - I feel your pain!

 

Scott

[61070]

Thanks John - that's another cracker you've pointed me to!

 

Not only a lovely piece of film in its own right but I've done a 'PrtScr' as you suggest for my records. I've taken this from the start of the sequence as it reveals some wonderful details of the 'Up' bay platform (now long gone). The configuration was completely different pre-war so this shows some vital details, including some rather dodgy-looking trackwork(!) at the platform end, where the trailing connection to the Up main crossed Platform 1. I simply haven't seen it from this viewpoint before (the train that is usually the object of the photographer's attention always obscures the immediate background). Also revealed for the first time (well for me at least) is the profile of the canopy extension at this end. I understand that this collapsed under the weight of snow during an immediate post-war winter (1947 probably) so agains rarely appears on photographs - fantastic stuff.

 

Have you noticed the train in platform 5? It appears to have a milk tank immediately behind the loco. I understand that milk tanker wagons were only just being introduced at this time (prior to this date it was churns in a dedicated milk van) but one of their first uses apparently was to serve the creameries on the ex-GN Uttoxeter-Stafford route. It's possible therefore that this is a Nottingham train (there was a 5.48pm departure in this direction, which would coincide with the down Coronation passing time), working an empty back? Anybody confirm (or otherwise).

 

Glad to help - but I hope it doesn't mean that some carefully crafted canopy construction has to be consigned to the bin.  I'd suggest that the trailing connection appears to be a remnant of the kind of connection provided at many stations during the Victorian period to enable a loaded carriage truck to be attached speedily to the rear of an up train to convey a pasenger's horsedrawn vehicle (the passenger station's road/rail interface being behind platform 1).  You could be right about the milk tank on the Nottingham/Derby train too.  The gas lamps on the up side are the same type as appear in Rev Parley's Edwardian photos.

 

Now for some good news - there appears to be a little more film of Grantham in 1937!  Having looked at the programme's credits and made enquiries, I've found that the clip comes from the Lincolnshire Film Archive. It turns out that it wasn't filmed by the LNER or one of the newsreel film companies but by a local man, hence why it may not have been picked up before. The archivist replied to my enquiry as follows:

• On our website http://www.lincsfilm.co.uk you will find details of the film of trains at Grantham Station in 1937 under Accession Number 199. In fact, however, this item is an extract from Acc No 188, Grantham Review of 1937, filmed by the late Walter Lee, a well known Grantham photographer. We have no other film of railways at Grantham.
• You may like to know that our DVD compilation Grantham Looks Back includes a much fuller version of the Grantham Station item than was used in the broadcast. It is less than the 1.75 minutes listed in the catalogue, but this is because Walter Lee used to include numerous very wordy intertitles. The version in the DVD omits these but includes all the good pictorial material.
• You can find details of how to order our DVDs by following this link to Primetime Video Productions:
• {C}http://www.primetimedvds.co.uk/advanced ... c_subcat=1{C}

 

I've ordered a copy of the DVD, so we'll see what else there is - according to the description on the website: Scenes in the signal box as the line is cleared in readiness, and the ‘Coronation’ hurtles through on its daily run. A reverse-angle shot shows the "beaver tail" observation car. The 'Silver Jubilee' is also seen passing.

Edited April 15, 2013 by 61070

[LNER4479]

Thanks once again John,

 

Your diligence and tenacity in ever seeking further for more information about Grantham past never ceases to amaze me; that's a proper piece of research you've done there. Delighted to hear that a full sequence exists and hope to be able to see it one day.

 

It occurs to me that the Coronation's passing time through Grantham station (@5.30pm) would be all important in terms of it being captured on film, that being an ideal time to see it 'on the way home from work'. As the service started in September 1937, there would have been a relatively few number of weeks to record it before the darker night's set in so I think we can be fairly sure that it was in its very early days of operation - certainly the loco (4491) looks immaculate in the clip, free from the inevitable grease and oil stains that soon started to build up around the joins in the streamlined casing. At the risk of appearing slightly vain, this notion of people making a special trip to see the new streamliner trains was the inspiration behind the opening section of my Grantham article in the BRM 2013 Annual.

 

According to the Summer 1938 timetable (which would have been little different from Sept 1937), in the two hours between 5.0 and 7.0pm, our photographer friend would have witnessed the following:

Leeds-King's Cross (dep Grantham 5.1)

'Up' Queen of Scots Pullman

'Down' Coronation (as per film)

King's Cross-Newcastle (dep Gantham 6.5)

'Down' Yorkshire Pullman

'Down' Silver Jubilee

as well as numerous local services starting and terminating.

 

Definitely worth being late home for tea for!

Edited April 16, 2013 by LNER4479

[LNER4479]

Robert

 

As one of the “one or two”      who like your woodworking deliberations I am now curious about the foldaway legs.

 

Are you intending to exhibit Grantham in the future?

 

Chris

Yes Chris, Grantham is indeed transportable and thus exhibitable, very definitely designed that way. There are four 'king' boards, with a double set of legs that fold out; the rest just have one set of legs and 'piggy back' off the adjacent board. 18 boards in total make the complete circuit, with 3 additional boards at the front for the loco depot. Most boards partner up with their adjacent board for transport and the whole lot fits in a LWB transit van with room to spare.

 

Carpentry - the neccesary evil before you can have some proper fun.  Being in the same boat - or is that "sawmill"??? - I feel your pain!

 

Scott

Actually Scott, I quite enjoy the carpentry - but there's no denying that the real 'fun' comes afterwards. That would be the tracklaying!!

[JCL]

Actually Scott, I quite enjoy the carpentry - but there's no denying that the real 'fun' comes afterwards. That would be the tracklaying!!

Hi Robert, if you're looking for a busman's holiday in the mountains, I'm looking to put a deck together this summer.

[LNER4479]

Sorry Jason, unable to attend this summer. Planning a trip 'across the pond' for 2014 though - can it wait till then?       

[andyrush]

Thanks once again John,

 

Your diligence and tenacity in ever seeking further for more information about Grantham past never ceases to amaze me; that's a proper piece of research you've done there. Delighted to hear that a full sequence exists and hope to be able to see it one day.

 

It occurs to me that the Coronation's passing time through Grantham station (@5.30pm) would be all important in terms of it being captured on film, that being an ideal time to see it 'on the way home from work'. As the service started in September 1937, there would have been a relatively few number of weeks to record it before the darker night's set in so I think we can be fairly sure that it was in its very early days of operation - certainly the loco (4491) looks immaculate in the clip, free from the inevitable grease and oil stains that soon started to build up around the joins in the streamlined casing. At the risk of appearing slightly vain, this notion of people making a special trip to see the new streamliner trains was the inspiration behind the opening section of my Grantham article in the BRM 2013 Annual.

 

According to the Summer 1938 timetable (which would have been little different from Sept 1937), in the two hours between 5.0 and 7.0pm, our photographer friend would have witnessed the following:

Leeds-King's Cross (dep Grantham 5.1)

'Up' Queen of Scots Pullman

'Down' Coronation (as per film)

King's Cross-Newcastle (dep Gantham 6.5)

'Down' Yorkshire Pullman

'Down' Silver Jubilee

as well as numerous local services starting and terminating.

 

Definitely worth being late home for tea for!

Wot, no goods trains? 

 

Andy

 

[LNER4479]

Wot, no goods trains? 

 

Andy

 

Sorry Sir!

 

Not sure of Grantham passing times but possibly/likely:

Frodingham (dep 12p30)-High Dyke Class C empties

King's Cross (dep 3.40)-Niddrie 'Scotch Goods' (of course!)

 

(Must try harder, must try harder,...  )

[JCL]

Sorry Jason, unable to attend this summer. Planning a trip 'across the pond' for 2014 though - can it wait till then?       

 

We're yon side. I'll put the kettle on if you can smuggle in some stuffed chine! I'm ok for sausages, I've given the local butcher a recipe from Wainfleet that he makes up - sells like hotcakes it does, and it confuses the locals no end because there's no maple syrup in it I've introduced a Danish friend into the Lincolnshire dialect (Danish, we're probably related if you go back far enough), starting with "Naaaiiirrrn, meeeyyyatt!" - for those not in the know, that's "How do you do?".

 

That carpentry is looking great though, it must take some working out!

 

j

[great northern]

Sorry Sir!

 

Not sure of Grantham passing times but possibly/likely:

Frodingham (dep 12p30)-High Dyke Class C empties

King's Cross (dep 3.40)-Niddrie 'Scotch Goods' (of course!)

 

(Must try harder, must try harder,...  )

"They" are on your case.   Resistance is futile, and anyway, we know they are right really - we neglect our goods workings shamefully. As you can see, I am on the path to redemption.   And building a lot of cassettes..........

[LNER4479]

Whilst we're on the topic of goods trains then...

 

One thing I was able to do whilst the builders disturbed layout progress was to work on some stock.

 

My workbench is located in 'the office', the name we've given to the small room in the corner of the chapel model railway room which forms the way in from the house (the house is behind me; the way through to the railway room is to the left. A rather pleasant arrangement

 

Here is a bit of a windfall! A model railway friend has passed these on to me as surplus to his requirements. They are a mixture of D&S and Slaters kits mainly. The vehicles nearest the camera are mainly GN prototypes so absolutely perfect (no doubt Jonathan can name them all!). Currently engaged on 3-link-ing them and re-lettering/numbering.

 

Meanwhile this has also been passed on to me; a D&S kit for a GN 8-wheeled brake. Fantastic!

 

Only a small scale start had been made by the previous owner, so I'm basically making it up from the start.

 

The running gear makes up as two compensated 4-wheel units

 

And this is where I've gotten up to with it as of a few nights ago.

 

Look out for it at the rear of a goods train (yes, you heard that right Andy - a goods train ) heading through Grantham some time soon...

 

'Robert'

Edited April 20, 2013 by LNER4479

[61070]

It occurs to me that the Coronation's passing time through Grantham station (@5.30pm) would be all important in terms of it being captured on film, that being an ideal time to see it 'on the way home from work'. As the service started in September 1937, there would have been a relatively few number of weeks to record it before the darker night's set in so I think we can be fairly sure that it was in its very early days of operation - certainly the loco (4491) looks immaculate in the clip, free from the inevitable grease and oil stains that soon started to build up around the joins in the streamlined casing.

 

According to the Summer 1938 timetable (which would have been little different from Sept 1937), in the two hours between 5.0 and 7.0pm, our photographer friend would have witnessed the following:

Leeds-King's Cross (dep Grantham 5.1)

'Up' Queen of Scots Pullman

'Down' Coronation (as per film)

King's Cross-Newcastle (dep Gantham 6.5)

'Down' Yorkshire Pullman

'Down' Silver Jubilee

as well as numerous local services starting and terminating.

 

Definitely worth being late home for tea for!

I've ordered a copy of the DVD, so we'll see what else there is - according to the description on the website: Scenes in the signal box as the line is cleared in readiness, and the ‘Coronation’ hurtles through on its daily run. A reverse-angle shot shows the "beaver tail" observation car. The 'Silver Jubilee' is also seen passing.

Well, the Grantham Looks Back DVD has arrived, with 30 seconds of ECML footage from 1937 (along with 49.5 mins of other mainly non-railway content between 1908 and 1971 - which is, nevertheless, not without appeal).

 

We see external views of Grantham North box, then the signalman and his assistant ('telegraph lad'?) at work, including a glimpse of the clock - showing a couple of minutes after 5:30. Then a shot through the station from the 'box, when the down main somersault starting signal is pulled 'off' (now there's a challenge for you Robert - can you get the movement of the arms exactly as prototype, including the transitional 'overswing'??). Next, No.4491 approaches and passes with the Coronation, and finally the observation car recedes around the curve. Wonderful stuff! But, before all this appears, there's a three second view north from the Great North Road bridge (without moving trains) which you may find helps with (e.g.) track layout detail, the signalling, and the disposition of the smaller buildings and structures in the area betwen the South Box and the bridge including, on far right, the siding descending towards the Spittlegate Iron Works.  Nothing of the Silver Jubilee train passing though, so I've ask the film archive about that.

 

Now as to when the film may have been made. The Coronation service commenced on Monday 5th July 1937 - hauled in the down direction by No. 4491. The LNER Magazine reports, in December 1937, that No. 4491 hauled the southbound Coronation on 48 of the first 51 trips. This makes another appearance on the down train very unlikely until September. If we look to the autumn of 1937, from Sunday 17th October an electric colour-light signal replaced the down starter somersaults. There's no evidence in the film coverage of works connected with that installation (which involved the construction of a brick-built relay room immediately adjacent to the south end of Grantham North box) being in hand. In any event, as you suggest, the light in September and October at 5:30pm would scarcely be good enough for filming; and, in the film, the sun does appear to be fairly high.  All this infers, I believe, that the film is very likely to feature the inaugural run of the Coronation on 5th July.  Whatever, it gives some dependable reference views for the 1937 date of your layout.

Edited April 21, 2013 by 61070

[LNER4479]

Wow that's exciting stuff John - looks like I'm going to have to order a copy myself then.

 

Your research and deduction into whether this was the inaugural run of the Coronation is truly fascinating. The one thing that strikes me from the clip is how spotless the loco is, and I mean shiny new paint spotless. No amount of cleaning can really bring back that fresh out of the paintshop look so that's perhaps another clue that this is 5.7.37. There is a picture of the train in RCTS Vol.2A passing Harringay with the loco looking equally as spotless.

 

If this is 5.7.37, then I think I can match you (for once) for research material as I have a log of the run. It was published in the 9th July 1937 edition of the Railway Gazette, a collection of which I acquired many, many years ago (I think someone gave them my Dad, who passed them on to me). Even though that was a long time before the concept of my Grantham project was even a twinkle, I did have the presence of mind to keep this particular piece (it also features the inaugural run of the LMS's Coronation Scot service on the same day - heady days!)

 

Anyhow, key/interesting features of the log are as follows: it was indeed 4491 on the train (as if that needed confirming!) with a Gateshead crew (driver Dron and fireman Charlton). The running time to Grantham (105 miles) is shown as 85mins and 17sec (booked 87.5mins), with the passing speed - most interestingly - shown as 75mph! Well there's another fact that tallies, as she's certainly shifting on the film! There was a pws a little further on so speed was subsequently eased to 30mph. Other than the obligatory slowing through Peterborough, that appears to have been the first time that the high speed running was interrupted, with 98mph being recorded at Holme and an average speed of 81.2mph up Stoke bank! Mind you, with the King's Cross-York section requiring an average of 71.9mph the train needed to get a move on... York was reached 1.5 mins early and Edinburgh 1 min early. William Whitelaw (LNER chairman) and Sir Nigel himself were passengers on the train.

 

Cracking stuff