Grantham - the Streamliner years

[LNER4479]

Thanks very much Andy for suggesting a separate thread; it goes without saying that I would be willing to contribute (and post the odd picture of a Grantham goods train to be 'shot at'!)

 

My research is limited but I can happily list what sources I have (eg the Goslin book) so we can pool resources. Jonathan Wealleans is clearly a keen LNER wagons man and has already dug out some excellent reference material for me (via PM correspondance) on the iron ore wagons.

 

My main interest will of course be parochial to Grantham and I freely declare that at the start! I also think that, from the work undertaken so far, the limiting factor will ultimately be the ability to source sufficient wagons of the correct type to be able to make the trains up! Even kits seem few and far between when you really start to hone in on certain prototypes!

 

Let us know when/if you start the thread up - or I would be willing to start if you prefer.

 

[jwealleans]

Hear, hear. There's not enough discussion about wagons. I'd be very pleased to be educated as well.

[devondynosoar118]

In the 1941 shot, a number of the PO's are lettered ATKINSON & PRICKETT Ltd. He was a Hull merchant so no surprise a lot of his are in the yard!

The one behind the shunter is S&D? FIS?ER the D maybe a B, will keep looking.

Good list of identified coal merchants on here

http://www.lightmoor.co.uk/BDLpdf_files/Private_Owner_Wagons_Index.pdf

Edited December 21, 2012 by devondynosoar118

[LNER4479]

Thanks for that DD

 

Yes, I'd almost deciphered that name too! The first visible wagon in the rake has the (large) letters 'PTO' in the centre of it. I suspect this is not a reference to it being a tippler (lol!) but the centre 3 letters of a 5 letter name such as 'UPTON'? Trouble is, I know next to nothing myself about PO wagons in terms of who's was who's which is why I would welcome a specialist topic thread on the subject as suggested (Hint! Hint!).

 

[andyrush]

Thanks for that DD

 

Yes, I'd almost deciphered that name too! The first visible wagon in the rake has the (large) letters 'PTO' in the centre of it. I suspect this is not a reference to it being a tippler (lol!) but the centre 3 letters of a 5 letter name such as 'UPTON'? Trouble is, I know next to nothing myself about PO wagons in terms of who's was who's which is why I would welcome a specialist topic thread on the subject as suggested (Hint! Hint!).

 

Have a look at the Goods Train Operation thread that I have started and where I mention your wonderful railway (with apologies in advance!)

 

Andy

[devondynosoar118]

I suspect that the 3rd one is indeed UPTON, a colliery in Pontefract. I wonder if there is a sharper version of this picture somewhere as it is a good one for variety.

[LNER4479]

Have a look at the Goods Train Operation thread that I have started and where I mention your wonderful railway (with apologies in advance!) Andy

 

Found it Andy thanks! (I'll add a link to my signature for others to follow) I will have a good read then add some postings. As well as LNER 1930's, I also have things to contribute based on my previous layout (link is below) which had LMR 1950's theme. That at least partially explains some of the non-prototypical wagons in my current coal train (which I am very happy for you to point out btw)!

 

I suspect that the 3rd one is indeed UPTON, a colliery in Pontefract. I wonder if there is a sharper version of this picture somewhere as it is a good one for variety.

 

Thanks DD - a good guess then

[LNER4479]

                                               The Grantham Christmas challenge!

As a result of some last minute alterations over the festive season, I find myself with a straight run of somewhat over a week at our new place. We being firmly in the ‘bah humbug’ camp when it comes to this time of year, it seems far too good a chance to miss to make some noticeable progress on the layout.

So, the challenge (which I have chosen to accept!) is to build the remaining shed (MPD) board

This is the shed layout as it exists at the moment. The J39 is sat where the ‘old’ shed building will be (two roads instead of four roads), whilst resident A1 4479 ‘Robert the Devil’ is sat alongside the old coaling stage (which I actually intend as the working coaling stage for the depot). Beyond ‘Robert’ however, the tracks end. As all familiar with the old 35B/34F will know of course, this is where the main (‘new’) shed was and no portrayal claiming to be Grantham would really be complete without it. Incidentally, don’t panic – the cheap and cheerful Hornby trainset controller attached to the board is only temporary, for testing purposes only.

Here then is the gap to be filled! It will be a slightly unusual and awkward board to make as it incorporates three things:
• The ‘new’ shed area of the depot (as already outlined)
• The dead end roads of the ‘down’ goods yard
• The roadway, at the lower level (the current ‘holes’ for which can be seen)
 

If you look closely towards the right hand side, the edge of the existing board is not straight but shaped to accommodate the Peco pointwork. This is so designed to avoid there being a baseboard joint right through the middle of a point. So the board is going to have to be carefully made to fit.

This view shows where Springfield Road goes under the railway on the existing board that the new board will join on to. I modelled this based on a site visit and was delighted to find this rather quaint arrangement. The arched passageway on the left is where you walk as a pedestrian. I am assuming that this was the original roadway when the railway was first built, presumably being sufficient for the horse and carts of the time. At some point during the twentieth century (post WWI perhaps?) the main road underpass on the right must have been added as larger road vehicles became the ‘norm’. Even to this day however, it is only a single carriage roadway, traffic lights controlling the alternating flow. I hope it was already in this configuration by the 1930’s? If not, too late as I’ll be keeping it as it is!
 

Meanwhile, above the bridge(s), you can see more clearly perhaps the staggered nature of the baseboard joint. Immediately below where the J39 is standing will be a left hand point, the left hand leg of which will cross onto the new board, hence the board shape turning through 90 degrees to accommodate.
 

So, hopefully you can see the challenge I’ve taken on. I’ll keep posting regular updates through the holiday period and let’s see where we are on 2nd Jan. Now, it’s off to B&Q for some materials…

 

'Robert'

[andyrush]

GN Bridge Book entry for Springfield Road Bridge, No.240

Brick abutments 19ft 9in span under down and up main lines, superstructure reconstructed in 1899 with steel trough girders and curved floor plates. Abutments extended on down side for 2 additional lines of rails in 1872, superstructure reconstructed in 1903 with additional girder and trough flooring, under present down slow line and siding. Footpath opening constructed in 1872 on north side of bridge. Brick semi-circular arch 10ft 0in. Abutments extended on up side in 1872. Superstructure reconstructed in 1903 with steel girders and trough flooring. Span 19ft 10in under present up slow line and siding. Cast iron face girder and parapet. Abutments further extended in 1903 for 2 additional down sidings. 19ft 8in span steel girders and trough flooring, cast iron face girder and wood parapet. Footpath opening extended at same time for these 2 lines, 10ft 0in span

I have also come across references to the road originally being called Brick Kiln Lane but the Bridge Book makes no mention of this

 

Good luck with the Christmas activity!

 

 

Andy

[LNER4479]

Wow - more great info, thanks! Good to confirm that this is the correct configuration for my era. I was almost certain that there would have been progressive widening. I need to detail the track where it crosses the bridge to show girders and plates accordingly but you can only get the occasional glimpse from photos!

 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I am looking forward to seeing this develop over the next few days - not that I needed any excuse to tune into Grantham, but the prospect of new developments has made my online Christmas.

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Robert,

I've now caught up with your glorious thread and I must say that I've enjoyed it immensely! Grantham means a good deal to me as my mothers family came from all around there, actually my Grandfather was born in Rutland! Unfortunately I was only familiar with the station from the 1970's onwards so it's really wonderful to see it as it was in the great days!

Also, congratulations on such a wonderful home for your railway - I'm green!

Finally, freight - great stuff! It's really nice to see that you have room for the non-glamour stuff!

Cheers,

John E.

[andyrush]

Wow - more great info, thanks! Good to confirm that this is the correct configuration for my era. I was almost certain that there would have been progressive widening. I need to detail the track where it crosses the bridge to show girders and plates accordingly but you can only get the occasional glimpse from photos!

Probably not a lot of help, but here is bridge No.240 pre-1903 viewed from the up side. I've now gone delving into the archives to see what more modern shots I've got....

 

Andy

[great northern]

I can take my camera over to Grantham and take a few photos if that would help. I don't think the bridge has changed much over the years.

[andyrush]

It looks like a parlous job! Here is the best of only two shots I have of the bridge - even in 1966, there was a bit traffic dodging going on.....

 

Andy

[micklner]

Austin Marina with a L Suffix 1973 from memory

[andyrush]

Austin Marina with a L Suffix 1973 from memory

I'll take that date, most of these photos have sketchy dating at best (and a lot none at all)

 

Happy Christmas

 

Andy

[great central]

Austin Marina with a L Suffix 1973 from memory

Sorry to be picky but the Marina was sold under the Morris badge in this country. It was known by the Austin badge in the USA, as something like the Austin America, damned if I can be sure at the moment though.

L reg ran from August 72-July 73 if I recall correctly, I have a K Reg one to restore at some point in time (if I can live long enough!)

[LNER4479]

Probably not a lot of help, but here is bridge No.240 pre-1903 viewed from the up side. I've now gone delving into the archives to see what more modern shots I've got....

 

Andy

 

Wow - thanks Andy, that's a gorgeous view. I'm very tempted to make it looking like that!

 

I did take a few pictures a few years ago GN so no need to bother specially on my behalf (but don't let me stop you visiting the place otherwise!)

[LNER4479]

                             The Grantham Christmas challenge – update No.1

 

Had a reasonably productive day, getting the main board cut to shape.

 

Here is the raw material, the straightest 6’ x 2’ sheet of 9mm ply I could find at that well-known orange-y DIY outlet (other stores are available). ‘Robert’ is sat at the approximate location of one of the shed roads, whilst the 3 vans show where one of the dead end goods yard sidings will be.

 

First ‘rough cut’, made at least half an inch away from where the first stab at the joint line might be. Just as well, as I was quite a bit ‘out’ down this bottom end.

 

There then followed over an hour of careful sawing, then plane-ing and lastly sanding as I iterated towards the fit I was after. I thought you might like to see the general set up available in the chapel railway room for work like this. Workmate and tools no further than 10 foot away from the job in hand. Nice and dry, reasonably warm(!) and just a quick sweep up of the sawdust when finished – near perfect working conditions!

 

It fits! The staggered nature of the joint can now be clearly seen. Time to play trains for a bit!

 

The arrangement of tracks on the board has only ever previously existed on a sheet of graph paper, so it’s always an anxious moment when you first set them out in trial form. All seems well though.

 

The three locos are positioned where the front of the shed will be. Yes that’s right, ‘only’ a three road shed. This is in accordance with my mantra of consistent compromise (in this case compression). The road to the right of the B17 was outside, alongside the shed and featured a set of shear legs. I could of course sacrifice this and have the four road shed, but I think to have the outside road will give a better balance and the shear legs will be an interesting feature (be interested in any views, contrary or otherwise?)

 

In the background, the J52 and the (laughable!) rake of coal wagons sit on the middle of the three dead end sidings. I will be leaving a roadway space between this siding and the siding nearest the shed to represent the configuration that existed at the actual yard itself; hopefully this will add to the feeling of space. Mind you, there were about 10 roads in the real yard so it’s a brutal compression in truth.

 

Couldn’t resist this whilst the three locos were sat there! (I should have asked the foreman to move ‘Liverpool’ so the rods were ‘bottom centre’). Ooh and I can see I need to splash some black paint on the underside of the running plate. Perhaps one day we might be able to give Tom at Leaman Road a ‘run for his money’ when scenes like this are rather more developed!

 

Finally (for now) a telephoto view showing the complete shed site for the first time. The J39 (2^nd from left) is sat where there was an additional outside road (well, two in reality) which always seemed to have been occupied by freight locos. The B17 meanwhile (furthest right) is sat on what will be the designated space for ash disposal, beyond the coaling stage. This is part of a classic one way natural ‘flow’ road the depot.

 

The shed yard in total measures about 11 foot in length but never more than 18 inches at its widest point. I think this is a reasonably faithful vignette of a real place that inevitably ‘grew like topsy’. If you were to start with a blank sheet of paper and design a ‘model railway’ depot layout would you ever come up with something as distinctive, convoluted and just downright quirky as this? I love it all the more for that.

 

'Robert'

Edited April 29, 2013 by LNER4479

[micklner]

Sorry to be picky but the Marina was sold under the Morris badge in this country. It was known by the Austin badge in the USA, as something like the Austin America, damned if I can be sure at the moment though.

L reg ran from August 72-July 73 if I recall correctly, I have a K Reg one to restore at some point in time (if I can live long enough!)

 

 

Should have British Leyland that would have covered all names !!

 

A K reg Marina cant be many of them left. make sure Top Gear dont try dropping a Piano on it lol

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Looking fantastic already. I spent a happy afternoon leafing through the Colin Walker books featuring Grantham while the rest of clan Gerbil-Fritters did a jigsaw.

 

A thoroughly splendid Christmas Eve...

[LNER4479]

Hi Robert,

I've now caught up with your glorious thread and I must say that I've enjoyed it immensely! Grantham means a good deal to me as my mothers family came from all around there, actually my Grandfather was born in Rutland! Unfortunately I was only familiar with the station from the 1970's onwards so it's really wonderful to see it as it was in the great days!

Also, congratulations on such a wonderful home for your railway - I'm green!

Finally, freight - great stuff! It's really nice to see that you have room for the non-glamour stuff!

Cheers,

John E.

 

Thanks John,

 

I too have only known Grantham from the 1970's. Glad it's 'struck a chord'; it's certainly an interesting challenge to research and try and recreate an altogether earlier era - freight especially!

[61070]

GN Bridge Book entry for Springfield Road Bridge, No.240

 

I have also come across references to the road originally being called Brick Kiln Lane but the Bridge Book makes no mention of this

 

Andy

On Old OS maps: this was Brick Kiln Lane until sometime pre-c.1904, thereafter Springfield Road (edit 11-1-13: 1911 census has 'Brick Kiln Lane or Springfield Road').  The brick works, including clay pit, was situated to the the south of the lane/road, opposite the junction with Huntingtower Road.  The brick works remained a feature of OS mapping until the early 1930s.  By the late '40s it could have been derelict and it later became (1960s) the site of a 'Works'; no doubt our Grantham-based correspondents will know where I mean and what this works was - it was east of BMaRCo. There was a malthouse adjacent to the brickworks.  You'll be relieved to know that all this is a few feet off your baseboard Robert (though probably still inside the chapel!).

Edited January 11, 2013 by 61070

[Markeg]

Hi Robert,

 

Looks like you are progressing well on the MPD.  The B17 is certainly the right colour/team, but not doing so well lately.  Tom should be worried! lol.  excellent stuff.

 

Is the Signal Bo in photo 6 of post 270 a scratch built or the Knightwing model?  Looks very nice.

 

MArk in OZ