Grantham - the Streamliner years

[LNER4479]

On Old OS maps: this was Brick Kiln Lane until sometime pre-c.1904, thereafter Springfield Road.  The brick works, including clay pit, was situated to the the south of the lane/road, opposite the junction with Huntingtower Road.  The brick works remained a feature of OS mapping until the early 1930s.  By the late '40s it could have been derelict and it later became (1960s) the site of a 'Works'; no doubt our Grantham-based correspondents will know where I mean and what this works was - it was east of BMaRCo. There was a malthouse adjacent to the brickworks.  You'll be relieved to know that all this is a few feet off your baseboard Robert (though probably still inside the chapel!).

 

Thanks for the info John. You never know, I might be able to fit an indication of a brick works somewhere. Mind you I could probably fit in the whole of Grantham town centre if I tried hard enough!

 

Is the Signal Bo in photo 6 of post 270 a scratch built or the Knightwing model?  Looks very nice.

 

MArk in OZ

 

Hi Mark. Yes, good spot - it's the Knightwing model. It's actually surprisingly close to the real 'Yard Box'. However, I have been fortunate to come into the possession of a D&S etching for a GN signal box and this is earmarked for Yard Box; it's a perfect fit for the base.

Edited December 28, 2012 by LNER4479

[LNER4479]

The Grantham Christmas challenge – update No.2

 

Having had a bit of a play, time now for some serious carpentry. Not sure how interesting pure woodwork can be but here goes:

 

It’s gone a funny shape! Following the trial layout, the extent of the main board was marked and cut accordingly. The inset towards the top is where the yard access off Springfield road will go.

 

 

Here are two of the cross-ways support members, temporarily screwed together, partly to speed things up(!) and also to ensure help get a consistent shape for the cut­­-out (the ‘ole for the roadway).

 

Here are the five cross pieces. The outer two are 9mm ply; the inner three are 6mm ply. ‘Robert’ looks on impatiently!

 

To which we add the length-ways pieces. Inner one (top) 9mm ply (as this will have a fixing onto the 9mm piece on the existing board); outer one 6mm ply.

 

 

Perhaps I go a bit OTT at this point, but I like to ‘tab and slot’ my wood joints, rather just rely on the screw and glue. At least I know it’s all supporting itself mechanically.

 

Happiness is a nice neat wood joint!

 

Finally for now, here is the first test assembly of the baseboard frame.

 

Well, I did warn you it wouldn’t be that interesting, but depots can’t sit on thin air! 

 

'Robert'

[Kenokie]

 “Well, I did warn you it wouldn’t be that interesting” ...

 

It’s amazing how many times on RMWeb the builder of another masterpiece says that about the mundane things such as baseboards and wiring etc. when to me, and I am sure many others, this is just as interesting and quite possibly more useful than picture on trains on a layout.

I have been amazed by how many different type of construction methods, types of wood or foam, fastening methods, supports, power tools, hand tools have been used to build layout. Each layout I follow is different and I have generally learned a little more, both do’s and don’ts, from each of the threads I follow.

 

Please keep up the progress postings, no matter how trivial you think they are cos we, your public, need them

 

For me you nailed it with this photo tag “Happiness is a nice neat wood joint!”

 

Thoughts of a long time lurker

 

Chris

[JCL]

I agree Chris. You're doing a great job Robert! It's always good to see a well made joint.

[LNER4479]

Thanks guys(!) - here we go with the next instalment then...

 

The Grantham Christmas challenge – update No.3

 

The carpentry continues:

 

Here I’m cutting the slots in the cross pieces for the strip-wood supporting pieces…

 

…and similarly for the supporting strip for the roadway (using one of my favourite tools, the coping saw  ). In both cases, again all pieces are clamped together for consistency/efficiency.

 

Now to mark where the fixings (ie to the adjacent boards) will go, with the relevant end piece temporarily clamped into position. Carefully positioned, that is, to try and avoid any sort of step between the boards.

 

I use M6 bolts, repair washers and ‘Tee’ nuts (from that well known orange-y DIY store) to fix one board to another. Other fixing methods are available…

 

At last – some screwing and glueing! Here, I’m adding the corner strengthening pieces (some square section stripwood for the screws to screw into) in preparation for the big fix. Of course it’s the glue that gives the joint its ultimate strength. I arranged for some to splodge out specially to illustrate!

 

So now (at last!) we can do some assembly. First stage is the basic frame shape.

 

Details of the corner joint.

 

I like to do a simple twist test at this point – ie stand the frame on its end and see if there is one (a twist that is!). Doesn’t look too bad to me?   

 

Now with the intermediate cross pieces added and test fitted in position.

 

Followed by the supporting battens (18mm x 34mm softwood). These are notched to match the cut outs to complete the interlocking of the supporting structure.

 

And at 5pm tonight, with a turkey stew beckoning, thermometer showing 48F in the chapel railway room and the effects of the unwelcome cold/flu bug taking hold… that’s as far as it’s got.  There’s just the roadway to install next time before we can get the top board fixed in place and work towards actually getting some track down.

 

'Robert'  (Aaaaa-tishoo!!)

Edited December 27, 2012 by LNER4479

[Kenokie]

Robert

 

Thanks for the "splodge" photo, don'tcha just love detail like that   

 

Having just recovered from one I sympathise about the bug taking hold - wrap up warm, lots of fluid (I find whisky works best) and prey it dosn't mutate into "man" flu 

 

Chris

[LNER4479]

The Grantham Christmas challenge – update No.4

 

Final part of the woodworking (promise!)  :

 

The roadway supporting strip is located into the pre-cut slots we saw earlier

 

…allowing the roadway itself to be fitted (4mm MDF). This is an altogether lighter structure as it’s only carrying the weight of the road vehicles. Meanwhile, traffic has resumed following the Xmas shutdown(!) as an O4 clanks by with iron ore empties.

 

A K3 hauled ECML stopping service crawls past the worksite as the ‘guide wire’ road surface is installed.

 

I realised that I would have to install the roadway a little distance beyong the ‘tunnel’ prior to fixing the main board down, so here is a mock up to get the basic shape right. The approach road up to the yard is going to be a little steeper than I would have liked!

 

Finally, everything is in place for the attachment of the main board. Firstly, an additional fixing block in the centre of the frame. And just to prove that I don't exclusively shop at the orange-y DIY outlet

 

Next, having marked the exact location of the supporting pieces from the underneath with the board temporarily placed in position, the board is removed and holes drilled through from the underside. This guarantees that each screw will locate into a supporting member.

 

The inevitable run of wood glue on all mating surfaces.

 

I like to pre-drill each fixing with a pilot hole. This is especially important where I am screwing down into the ends of the 9mm ply. Very little margin for error – without the pilot hole there’s a strong chance of the ply splitting. I don't attempt to screw down into 6mm ply - hence the additional supporting block above.

 

The final screw is symbolically driven home – done!

 

Et voila! One depot board, ready for tracklaying (well, almost!). The extra bit of roadway, referred to earlier, can be seen bottom centre. There is quite obviously some further carpentry required to finish the board completely but the challenge was to get the final board for the depot set up so this is where the remaining work over the holiday period will be focussed.

 

It’s quite a significant moment for the project actually, as this is the last of Grantham's baseboards to be completed. And if I were to tell you that the first boards were constructed over Xmas 2006/7 then I think you might appreciate that’s quite a milestone. But no resting on laurels - onwards and upwards!

 

'Robert'

 

PS - thanks for the cold remedy Chris. Whisky was already on the menu (my good lady refers to it as 'anasthetic'!). Seems to have done the trick. 

Edited December 29, 2012 by LNER4479

[Kenokie]

Yep, its great for colds - dosn't cure them but does help make the suffering time slightly "less" unpleasent. Unfortunately its not so good when using power tools or laying track. You make lots of progress but regret it later 

 

Where did you learn your woodworking skills? Your methods seem a little different (in a good way) than most of the other approaches I have seen.

 

Chris

[fishytrains]

Some great progress there. It is fantastic when you get a block of time to devote to a project. Makes the whole layout progress seem to happen more quickly. I am looking forward to seeing the track fill this space.

 

Mike

[LNER4479]

Where did you learn your woodworking skills? Your methods seem a little different (in a good way) than most of the other approaches I have seen.

 

Chris

 

Only woodworking I was ever taught was at school in year 1 and 2 (ie when I was 11 & 12). Mind you that was when we were shown how to make a 'proper' wood joint so I must have taken something in! After that, it's all been trying stuff out and learning by mistakes. I 'discovered' plywood comparatively recently (previously being a half-inch chipboard with 2 x 1 bracing merchant) and I think it's fantastic stuff. Strong (when placed on it's end) and lightweight, the ideal combination for a transportable layout.

 

As we're on the subject, I thought I'd share these pictures with you. I like to use my 'little people' for load testing purposes (they seem to enjoy the experience!) :

 

This picture dates from 2007 and is of one of the first boards:

My son would have been 13 at the time. This span of this board is 3' 8".

 

The more recent load test was more ambitious, involving the 'link board', connecting fiddle yard to layout at the south end. This has the largest span of any of Grantham's board at 6 foot; I upped the size of the main lengthways 6mm ply pieces from 4" depth to 5" depth accordingly.

Here it is, newly constructed earlier this year, taking the strain of Little person No.2 (also by now age 13!). The remarkable thing is that there appeared to be no deflection whatsoever, quite satisfying if I may say so

 

Some great progress there. It is fantastic when you get a block of time to devote to a project. Makes the whole layout progress seem to happen more quickly. I am looking forward to seeing the track fill this space. Mike

 

Thanks Mike - looking forward to track on it myself. Currently the cork is sticking - didn't think that a picture of glue drying would be that exciting!

Edited December 29, 2012 by LNER4479

[Kenokie]

Thanks for sharing the photos. I like the concept of using "little people" for the load testing experiments. Fraction of the weight of "big people" and far more bendy and rubbery and much quicker off the mark so they have a fighting chance of landing well (a bit like a cat) if the unthinkable should happen. 

 

Interesting point about school. I was also there when woodwork and metal work were mandatory and although not as requirement in any of my career choices based on what I learned I am capable of fastening bits of wood and metal together well enough for them to stay that way.

 

The use plywood and various ways you and others assemble it interests me though. All my previous layout experience has been with chipboard, 2” x 1” framing and L girder construction, all of which have worked, but resulted in quite heavy or large boards. Part of my interest in the construction methods is an information gathering exercise prior to starting work on a exhibition layout where it seems both the strength and light weight of plywood will be an advantage.

 

Now, my current stock of available “little people” are a bit smaller than yours (5yrs  and 6yrs), but, if I used them in pairs ....     mmmmm.... I might try some practice “drop” testing with them next time they come round.     

Chris

[nigeln]

My stock of "little people" is a 16 year old 6`2" ish and 15 1/2 stone !!

Think I`ll pass on this load bearing experiment and take my chances with my handy work :-))

[LNER4479]

The Grantham Christmas challenge – Final(!) update

 

Challenge complete? Read on to find out how we got to this scene.

 

With a complete baseboard (well, more or less!) things can now progress towards track going down:

 

Here is the cork sheet being stuck down. I use 1/8” (or @3mm if you like). As well as being weighted by pieces of wood and the heaviest tools available(!), I also tack the edges with track pins to prevent it curling up whilst sticking.

 

Preparing to paint. I use nothing more fancy than children’s play paints (one of the few modelling materials available from Early Learning Centre!) 50:50 black and white gives a good coverage in dark grey. I think that’s a reasonable basis for a ground covering largely comprising ash/cinders.

 

I usually leave the last 3 or 4 inches on the previous board unpainted so as to be able to merge the colour in. The chances of mixing up exactly the same shade as before are pretty slim so I think this is better than a straight line colour ‘step’ at a baseboard joint (even thought it will all eventually be covered up).

 

A picture of paint drying! The unpainted area is where the shed building will be. I shall be installing pits so won’t need the cork here; once the exact position of the shed is fixed, then the cork will be cut away accordingly.

 

At last(!), we can get down to some tracklaying! Here I’m positioning and cutting to exact length the pointwork immediately on the other side of the new board.

 

The first length of track being ceremoniously fixed to the new board! This is actually one of the sidings in the goods yard; the join with the existing board runs parallel with it, above.

 

Here’s the track we saw earlier, now (spray) painted and being fixed down for good. This is the approach pointwork that leads towards the engine shed building, off to the right.

 

And this, dear reader, is the maximum extent of what I am able to achieve with the 2012 Christmas challenge, the simple reason being that I’m ‘stuck’ until I get myself a 3-way point!

 

But, rather than end on a damp squid, I spent an hour or so temporarily laying out the remaining trackwork as best I could so as to be able to take some photos to show the effect

 

Locos are scattered around the yard and the goods yard is thronged with wagons as a north bound express sweeps past in the background

 

Whilst waiting for glue and paint to variously dry, I spent some time knocking up some mock ups of the shed building and the coaling stage. Neither feel ‘right’ to me – but that is the point of a mock up at the end of the day.

 

This view shows the good yard. Again, I’m short of a point or two – the left hand road will join up with the adjacent one in the fullness of time! These two roads will be deliberately spaced as shown so as to allow a roadway between.

 

Viewed from a different angle, this view shows virtually the entire trackwork that will be on the new board.

 

And with that, we come to the end…. Oh hang on a minute – the cameraman’s disappeared off to ‘bunk’ the shed. Let’s hope he comes back with some more shots…

 

'Robert'

Edited December 31, 2012 by LNER4479

[Rich5ltr]

Totally absorbed reading this thread for the last half hour - one question Robert, if it's mostly all your own work how have you found a hall ig enough to build it in? Surely you don't dismantle it every time you finish work...?

[LNER4479]

Totally absorbed reading this thread for the last half hour - one question Robert, if it's mostly all your own work how have you found a hall ig enough to build it in? Surely you don't dismantle it every time you finish work...?

 

Thanks and glad you enjoyed the read. Grantham's current home really is part of my own house; a few months ago we bought a former Methodist chapel/schoolroom, part-converted. The bit that isn't converted is the old chapel. Measuring 42' x 28' this is now designated as the model railway room (my den!). So I no longer have to dismantle and re-erect on a continuous basis. If you feel so moved, then you can read more about it from #124 onwards.

[CUTLER2579]

Robert,
please forgive me if I am in error ,but you appear to only have a three road Shed for the "New Shed" where as it was actually four roads [i am sure you know this}.If I am correct, may I ask why this is the case.Also have you managed to aquire any photographs of the East side of the Shed as I over 38 years have never had any luck. The West side was often photographed ,but that Bl**dy Great wall of coal always seemed to have blocked the view on the East side. The times I saw it and yet once it had gone so have my recollections of it.I once asked Keith Pirt if he had such a photograph in his vast collection,only to be met with a negative response.I must have walked down Springfield Road and looked at it a  thousand times at least,but what it looked like eludes me. I have book with a picture showing the complete shed from a high vantage point and the East Wall looks completely blank of windows,but it is not clear.A belated Happy New Year to you and I know how your feeling with "Man Flu" at the moment.

Regards,Derek.

[LNER4479]

Hi Derek,

 

Thanks for starting the discussion about the shed building as I was going to ask for any information from those 'in the know'.

 

Yes, I do know that the 'new' shed building will be a road short. My reasonings are several fold. Firstly one of space - I'm loathe to make the baseboard any wider here, it's already 4' 3" wide at this point. Also, beyond the new board (southwards), the front line of the baseboard 'steps back' by some 18 inches as it is, which is a big enough 'gap' bearing in mind an exhibition audience.

 

Secondly, I'm trying to be consistent in my compromises. I've already decided to reduce the 'old' shed from 4 to 2 roads so to reduce the size of the other shed building is in keeping. Finally, proportion. My shed building will be significantly shorter in length that the original so by reducing its width that lessens the disparity.

 

I too struggled to turn up any views of the east side as I constructed the mock up the other day. Once I'd finished it, I happen to glance at the following photograph:

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10443415&itemw=4&itemf=0001&itemstep=1&itemx=3&screenwidth=1263

 

Taken on 29.6.61 it has a glimpse of the elusive east side (although as you say the coal stack obscures much of it). I was however mainly concerned with the 'sawtooth' profile of the roof and this shows it to be a lot flatter than my mock up. Curses! However, I then looked at the Grantham pictures in John Hooper's 'LNER Sheds in Camera' and plate 157 shows the view from the then new coaling tower in 1937. This reveals that at that date the shed was of a classic GN 'northlight' design with a very prominent 'sawtooth' roof profile. So that completely 'blows out of the water' any attempt to model the shed based on pictures from the 1950's and 1960's!

 

According to the information in the book, the roof was rebuilt 'in the 1950's' (anyone know dates for sure?) which must therefore have been when it acquired its much flatter profile - and also the corrugated iron(!) Sounds like a classic post-war 'patch up' (the GN roof would have been in existence for well over 50 years by that date). I agree that the west elevation appears devoid of windows (but was it like that in 1937?). Colin Walker's pictures of the inside of the shed in its final days appear exceptionally gloomy so if there was any lighting from the east side it can't have been very much!

 

Incidentally, the 1937 picture also shows a turntable in situ adjacent to the shed building (when there was already the 70' turntable in operation elsewhere on the site). Would love to have fitted that in but again, no room!

 

A general appeal therefore - if anyone has any more information about the 'new' shed building in LNER days, when it was in its original GN 'northlight' configuration then that would be most helpful

 

'Man flu' a lot  better now thanks. Here's to a 2013 full of exciting and fulfilling modelmaking.

Edited January 1, 2013 by LNER4479

[61070]

I can't help at all with the as built or 1930s appearance of the 'new shed'. In trawling the web, though, I've just come across the Britain from Above website. If you already know it please ignore the following.

 

Britain from Above is based on the Aerofilms archive of aerial photos. There isn't much of Grantham on the site at present and, frustratingly, the only photo which shows the railway barely shows anything of it at all. It's

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw016188?search=Grantham&ref=1

It was taken in July 1926 and shows Grantham North signal box (roof only) and a small section of the railway nearby. If you register on the site you can zoom in on the pictures, read people's comments and leave your own.

 

This is next to no use at all for your project of course, but what they have on the site at present appears to be only a fraction of the collection. I haven't tried, but maybe by contacting them you may be able to find out if there are any more images of the station/shed area and urge them to bring them forward for scanning and uploading? Could be worth a try.

 

Congratulations on the new 'Christmas Challenge' section - it's made a big difference to the 'feel' of the layout.

 

John

Edited January 9, 2013 by 61070

[LNER4479]

Many thanks John for continued research on my behalf.

 

I have registered on the site and had a good look at the photo. Although it only shows a fraction of the railway (and not the shed at all) I would disagree with you when you say that it is of 'next to no use' for my project - far from it! There is some wonderful detail around the station approach road which I can use for that area. If you look closely then you can see two horse-drawn carts (drays?) - one empty heading towards the station and one loaded heading away from the station, almost certainly engaged on deliveries to and from the goods yard. That is valuable evidence that there would have been a high dominance of horse drawn (as opposed to motor vehicles) pre-war (although noting that 1926 is a full 10 years before my timeframe). And I'm absolutely loving 'W B Harrisons & Sons Ltd Belvoir Baby Carriages' emblazened on a factory roof in the block behind the approach road! I'm definitely going to have that on the backscene

 

As you can detect, I wasn't previously aware of this website so I will keep an eye on it with interest!

 

Thanks once again.

[61070]

Hello Robert,

Pleased to be of help again. I was thinking 'railway infrastructure', not appeciating that you would be modelling - or representing - some of the landscape adjacent to the railway.

By the way, the houses on Station Road that you can see in the photo were all railway-owned. In the 1911 census you can see who lived at each of 9 addresses on Station Road. No.1 (Station Inspector) appears to be detached, 2, 3, 4 and 5 (Goods Checker, Goods Checker, Passenger Guard & Foreman Porter) are a terrace while 6&7 (Shed Foreman & P. Way Inspector) are semi-detached. The Station Master lived at 8 (which had a name - 'The Poplars').  No. 8 appears to be detached but, if it is, No.9 (Platform Inspector) must be further up the road somewhere.  Possibly 8&9 are part of the same building (semis or flats?). Google streetview shows us today that No.1 has been demolished (presumably for road 'improvements' at the junction) but the others - with the possible exception of 9, if it was detached from 8 - are still there. I mention this because you might wish to consider featuring these houses in '3-D', as railway property, rather than in 2-D with the factories on the backscene.

John

Edited January 11, 2013 by 61070

[LNER4479]

Thanks John,

 

Yes, in an earlier post I mentioned that we were tackling some of the properties on the station approach road. Here is the block of terraces (Nos 2-5) that have already been done:

 

I say 'we' because this model was actually assembled by my good lady, after I had prepared a 'kit' using Metcalfe card papers. It's based purely on a site visit and a couple of photographs from the approach road so one or two details probably aren't right for the 1930's but I think it'll be fine towards the back of the layout, immediately in front of the backscene.

 

I was aware that they were railway properties but your information re the house numbers and who lived in each is most interesting. I think I erroneously numbered the doors 1-4(!) so I will have to correct that

 

 

[61070]

That's a very nice job!

 

Well, this focus on railway homes on Station Road may have resolved something that's been puzzling me for a few years. I have a photo, taken at Grantham station, of a panelled wooden external door with two women in front of it (or, I should say, of two women in front of a door because I'm sure they were the subjects of the picture!). On the door is a painted sign 'Station House'. I had thought that the door was that of the Station Master's house, i.e. No.8 Station Road, but I was never really sure. Closer inspection this morning reveals that it isn't the front door of No.8 because the detailing of the brickwork bears no resemblance. It's a door on the Station Road frontage of the main passenger station building - I've confirmed this because it's visible on streetview (though unfortunately, with a van parked in front of it, you only get a glimpse). In the 1911 census, 'Station House' is recorded as an 8-room dwelling wherein lived eight mainly young women (ages range from 19 to 27) - all GNR staff who worked in the Refreshment Room. Perhaps it had originally been the Station Master's residence but was 'cascaded' to accommodate refreshment room staff when the detached house at No.8 Station Road was built.

 

In terms of the properties on Station Road, the 1911 census gives 8 rooms for No.8 and 7 rooms for No.9.  I can't see that one building having 15 rooms (counting the chimney pots there appear to be eight). So the whereabouts of No.9 Station Road remains a bit of a mystery at present.

Edited January 11, 2013 by 61070

[andyrush]

Here are some more fairly indifferent slides around Grantham station from circa 1984 (judging by some of the others in the same sequence). Any more fulsome captions than 'Railway house' and Railway cottages' would be appreciated!

 

I hope they are of interest

 

Andy

[61070]

Hello Andy,

 

Top photo - the Station Road side of the main range of buildings. The door to 'Station House' would be about level with the car behind the mini - in the central block, just beyond the slightly projecting gable end of the north wing. I suspect the rooms of Station House would likely have been on the the first floor of the two-storey section of the buildings, i.e. 'over the shop' as it were.

 

Second photo - No. 8 Station Road, 'The Poplars' - the Station Master's residence.

 

Third photo - Nos. 6 & 7 Station Road, with No. 8 in the right background.

 

Fourth photo - Nos. 2, 3, 4 & 5 Station Road (the subject of Robert and Mrs Robert's model), with No. 6 in the right background.

 

Some additional info from the Old Maps website:  Nos. 2, 3, 4 & 5 and 6 & 7 appear on a map dated 1887 (as does the since demolished No.1); No.8 had not been built then, though it appears on a map dated 1904.  Looking at the photos you can see that the earlier houses have multi-paned windows while No.8 has a single pane of glass per sash on the front elevation, new glass manufacturing techniques having made larger sheets of window glass more widely available and cheaper by the late 19th/early 20th century.  I find these little architectural 'clues' to different build dates quite fascinating, especially as they remain evident today on these houses.

Edited January 12, 2013 by 61070

[andyrush]

Thanks for that 61070.

 

Here are another few pictures around the Station Road area from the same date