hmrspaul Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 My first question - does anyone have any 'ready done research' that denotes which livery milk tank wagons are suitable for roughly which time period? From the information provided above that would not be possible. Just as an example Are they large lettered or small plates etc. Most, if not all of the companies altered the appearance of the tanks considerably down the years. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 BG John Useful website covering Col Stevens Terriers - http://www.hfstephen...s-terriers.html Given the number that passed through his hands as it were, I'd say your desired 'none' was a slim chance. Especially since previous incarnations of Terriers have eventually made it to GWR green, Portishead being one of Stevens purchases. I'd seen that site, but wondered if someone had already been through all the variants and made any sense of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 From the information provided above that would not be possible. Just as an example Are they large lettered or small plates etc. Most, if not all of the companies altered the appearance of the tanks considerably down the years. http://paulbartlett....com/brmilktanks Paul Bartlett Thanks for that useful link Paul - unfortunately the TMV/TRV conversions are spot on perfect for my era (although they only ran for about a year on one specific flow then spent 5 years rusting away before being scrapped) but I'm a bit loathe to buy half a dozen £70 wagons just to hack them apart and/or respray them! I was hoping that if I went a bit earlier one of the range would slot obviously into the mid 1970's - but I guess I need to find someone with the catalogue to see whether there's any more information in there. I looked at the N gauge equivalents on the Dapol site and sadly there isn't any information on eras there either. I know Bachmann's "era" system isn't perfect but it's more helpful than no information at all! I'm guessing that they are, more or less, scaled up versions of the N gauge milk tanks so someone with knowledge might be able to ascertain something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted July 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2012 Dave Are Dapol considering the production processes to allow for an original spec Terrier to be produced in the future? I am more an 1890's modeller and that would allow for most variations of the A1 to be produced as well as the K&ESR A1X with the front sand boxes as built. So many variations but all reasonably simple to allow for if thought is put in now on the CAD before cutting metal. Also, now you have the scans, does this mean a more accurate 4mm version? I'd like that as well!!! Cheers Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Cant wait to see the 08, Im really hoping this is a cracking model. Really glad to see the green wasp stripes added. I will be renumbering as one of the 81A locos. The milk tankers look interesting I suppose I could get away with one or two being shunted off an express for on ward travel to Kensington. All looks good on the RTR O gauge front. A question for Dave. If they are using oo gauge motors attatched to fly wheels will they have standard DCC 8/21 pin sockets in them? Im wondering if can get away with a OO gauge sound chip hooked up to a bass reflex speaker. This would be cheaper than the O gauge chip by about £80. Hi, I like your thinking, I keep reading about those who have O gauge locos (with a single motor) - as with many 'kettles' - using decoders for 00, yet when I speak to certain DCC suppliers they - of course - advise against it (not sure whether such is due to a 'CYA decision' on their part or that they would rather sell a more expensive decoder to me???), yet if the motor is low draw, with decent gears/gearbox and a fly wheel, then, in the case of an 08 or Terrier, why not use '00' (sic) parts and come to that decoders too - it makes good sense, in many ways. Whilst, I am grateful for the myriad of cottage industry suppliers who have taken the time and effort to enter into the O gauge market place (we wouldn't have 7mm/O gauge without many of them), and indeed some of the RTR supplier's, it is a breath of fresh air, to have a SME, such as Dapol come to market with a different, yet long over due IMHO, practical approach to producing RTR in this scale and gauge... I could even see room for development of small range of RTR in 0-16.5 narrow gauge as that is, in effect, 7mm scale on '00' track and takes up only minimal space, yet with lots of detail potential for those with limited space who do not wish to model the smaller scales (a manufacturer could, if producing 'freelance' narrow gauge locos and wagons, make use of existing '00' chassis).... ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 One of the things I guess is that the extra weight of O gauge needs a more powerful motor - and the higher current - but as an 08 and terrier are likely to be light loads, slow speed, that should mean OO chips are ok. I have a OO sound chip fitted in a Bachmann 122 and that works fine. I've also got a CT-Elektronik chip in a kit built shunter (possibly even an N gauge one - I don't remember) but because of the lowish current draw of the motors both work fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I don't think either Skytrex or Heljan fit 'small range', maybe not as extensive as we would like. Heljan are up to seven locos with two more on the way, but does illustrate the perils of expanding into effectively a new market, their mark 1 coach range probably did not live up to their targets and several livery versions have been cancelled, not least because they just didn't look right. Dapol have already found interest not always as expected (deferred/cancelled EWS 08), but it is early days yet - we have not seen a wheel turn so far. The experience in other scales should stand them in good stead, and one hopes that demand for some of the models/liveries will far exceed expectations. That will of course create it's own problems - scarcity of some models and delays to others as schedules are rejigged to try and cope, but it will help ensure the continuance of the range - we'll just have to be patient. Hopefully the opens will not be too long now, then we can get into prototype and re-livery/mod options. There are a lot of versions of the MKI, in kit form, in this scale and gauge, yet Heljan missed a big trick with their RTR version, which could have 'cleaned up', because they didn't get the model right and the price point was too high (due to Danish 'VAT' and costs of living etc.?). A good quality RTR MK1, could encourage more modellers of '00' out into the garden, yet Heljan's strategy was a risky one and if the models weren't right then it would fail - and it did. Dapol are doing the right thing of using media such as RM Web et al so as to canvass and gauge opinion/advice, whilst taking into account production and cost considerations et al.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 My Sang Cheng Terriers draw less than 0.5 amp and run on standard lenz silver decoders. Even when double heading they draw less juice than a single Heljan 4mm Hymek!!! I'd be very happy to see an as built A1 or a mainland A1X at some point and hopefully Dapol will have taken account of this when they put the tooling together, like they have with the 4mm class 22. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 One of the things I guess is that the extra weight of O gauge needs a more powerful motor - and the higher current - but as an 08 and terrier are likely to be light loads, slow speed, that should mean OO chips are ok. I have a OO sound chip fitted in a Bachmann 122 and that works fine. I've also got a CT-Elektronik chip in a kit built shunter (possibly even an N gauge one - I don't remember) but because of the lowish current draw of the motors both work fine. The main issue is the quality (efficiency) of the motor and gearbox (ratios) etc. and better motors and gears need not, in a RTR loco, cost much more than lesser quality versions. Heljan has gone to the extreme with their 7mm RTR diesel outline locos - unmatched motors with high draw rates etc.....oh and plastic gears ala the toys made in Hong Kong that I remember from my yuff LoL.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markeg Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Fantastic stuff. I have bought some O gauge track (a box) from a friend. and will buy a couple of points in due course. These are excellent value. I will probably buy an 08 and Terrier. Have both in OO. And maybe a couple of wagons. Any news when these are planned for release? I would think the Terrier is 2013, which gives me time to save after spending on upcoming OO LNER/ER locos from B & H. Saw an 08 on the the Severn Rly and 2 x Terriers on Bluebell Rly. Mark in OZ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 A class 22 to go with the milk tanks and I feel the Culm valley calling. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 A class 22 to go with the milk tanks and I feel the Culm valley calling. Ed I have been banging on - to Dapol - about one of those for a while now - as the 00 version just needs up-scaling with the odd tweak or two.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenwall Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Gauge O Gazette arrived yesterday. In the trade news section it indicted that by the time we read this the first batch of Dapol O gauge wagons should be available. Not yet seen anyone quoting 'in stock' but must be soon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Gauge O Gazette arrived yesterday. In the trade news section it indicted that by the time we read this the first batch of Dapol O gauge wagons should be available. Not yet seen anyone quoting 'in stock' but must be soon! Me neither. How do they size up next to the Lionheart versions, in terms of looks and accuracy?.....a little bit out of my era, yet could be tempted..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenwall Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Osborns are showing the O gauge wagons as pre-order essential, limited edition (150) against all the Dapol o gauge opens. I knew it was a good idea to pre-order, but the (low) quantity, if accurate, is news to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Osborns are showing the O gauge wagons as pre-order essential, limited edition (150) against all the Dapol o gauge opens. I knew it was a good idea to pre-order, but the (low) quantity, if accurate, is news to me. A link would have been a courtesy. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenwall Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 A link would have been a courtesy. Paul Bartlett As requested, provided as info - have not used them, cannot endorse them. Merely observing the stated batch size. http://www.osbornsmodels.com/7f051004-Dapol-5-plank-br-mineral-open-wagon-18961-p.asp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 As requested, provided as info - have not used them, cannot endorse them. Merely observing the stated batch size. http://www.osbornsmo...gon-18961-p.asp Thanks very much, I hadn't related Osborne to the model company that sell N gauge. We can only hope that the photos do not represent the final products. As we have already discussed the lettering on the BR wagons is much too large, and the P version has the lettering reversed. I'll not make much comment about the bodies of the 7 plank mineral. They appear to be based on the RCH standard of the 1920s, but there is no sign of bottom doors, and no hinge for the top door. The brake rigging correctly appears to be independent with double V hangers, but a cross bar is present - easily removed. The GWR minerals of 1907-9 are not well recorded. The diagram N33 is quite different to the official photos in Atkins, A. G. Beard, W. Tourret, R. (1998) GWR Goods Wagons A historical survey. Tourret Publishing, Abingdon, Oxon. 530 pages ISBN 0-905878-07-8 The photo of 06515 (HMRS Z3688) shows the Dapol wagon is closer to the original than the diagram! However, it is only 15ft. 6in oh, whereas I am pretty sure the Dapol wagon is the later 16ft 6in oh type. They also had grease axleboxes (as was standard at that time) unlike the model which has 'modern' oil split boxes. I do accept, at £36, they are competitively priced. Plenty of O gauge kits are in a similar price range. Paul Bartlett PS you mention batch size. I think this is very difficult to judge. But, apparently, there will be 600 of each of 3 types they are introducing, which is a lot of models in 7mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Thanks very much, I hadn't related Osborne to the model company that sell N gauge. We can only hope that the photos do not represent the final products. As we have already discussed the lettering on the BR wagons is much too large, and the P version has the lettering reversed. I'll not make much comment about the bodies of the 7 plank mineral. They appear to be based on the RCH standard of the 1920s, but there is no sign of bottom doors, and no hinge for the top door. The brake rigging correctly appears to be independent with double V hangers, but a cross bar is present - easily removed. The GWR minerals of 1907-9 are not well recorded. The diagram N33 is quite different to the official photos in Atkins, A. G. Beard, W. Tourret, R. (1998) GWR Goods Wagons A historical survey. Tourret Publishing, Abingdon, Oxon. 530 pages ISBN 0-905878-07-8 The photo of 06515 (HMRS Z3688) shows the Dapol wagon is closer to the original than the diagram! However, it is only 15ft. 6in oh, whereas I am pretty sure the Dapol wagon is the later 16ft 6in oh type. They also had grease axleboxes (as was standard at that time) unlike the model which has 'modern' oil split boxes. I do accept, at £36, they are competitively priced. Plenty of O gauge kits are in a similar price range. Paul Bartlett PS you mention batch size. I think this is very difficult to judge. But, apparently, there will be 600 of each of 3 types they are introducing, which is a lot of models in 7mm. Hi Paul, Thanks for the extra info. I think that Tower Models are also pre-advertising the Dapol versions too....... I have a funny feeling, that the Lionheart ones maybe more accurate - sorry - than the pre-prodcution Dapol versions...... When did these vehicles go out of service with BR ? ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I wonder if Dapol would consider producing a GWR 14xx/48xx Auto tank? It would fall into the small engine policy and provide some nice little limited edition issues like 1401 for example. Not a wish list, just a suggestion. Great Western, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hi Paul, Thanks for the extra info. I think that Tower Models are also pre-advertising the Dapol versions too....... I have a funny feeling, that the Lionheart ones maybe more accurate - sorry - than the pre-prodcution Dapol versions...... When did these vehicles go out of service with BR ? ATVB CME Sorry, I'm not willing to comment much on Lionheart as I cannot claim independence. I will point out that, for example they use both steel and wooden end stanchions, have a form of suspension and will find the slightest gradient. If they have one problem it is that they move too easily and it takes a lot of precision to buffer up for coupling without them moving away. Not difficult to judge for yourself from the Lionheart website http://www.lionhearttrains.com/models.php?page=models By the way, no charge for postage (like Osborn, unlike Tower). I think we discussed the destruction of the ex Private Trader wagon fleet by BR in detail a couple of years ago. Wooden mineral wagons, which by then would mainly be the RCH standard introduced c1923-4 with oil axleboxes (ie what Dapol and Lionheart model), can be seen in photos into the early 1960s. I am increasingly of the belief that they, and the earlier steel minerals seem to have been popular for loco coal - or possibly for loco ash as they can be seen in MPD photos. A few survived in internal use - I think I caught the last one, acting as a station spoil wagon in September 1977 http://bit.ly/RoLFKO http://bit.ly/MGIfxO This is the other that lasted a long time on BR (at Stratford I believe), and upainted http://bit.ly/RoLWgS Many lasted for far longer in internal use at industrial sites. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brpomineral Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenwall Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I am relieved to see that maybe there will be more Dapol open wagons of each type than the 150 shown on the Osborn listing. 150 seemed so low as to preclude any chance of getting any once we had actually seen the production model. No doubt there will be some tweaking required (hinge on the 7 plank) and livery corrections (or weathering out), but it will be good to have additional options available. Though the model railway market in general does seem to be moving in the direction of ' buy it when it is released (or even before) or risk missing out.' Looking at photos, general wagon workings seem to have a great deal of variety of wagons is size shape and fittings. Getting the train right needs alternative renderings. The horde of small wagon repairers/builders gave almost endless variations on a theme. I'm aware of course that there were more uniform consists (china clay etc). It is to be hoped that the Dapol offering will be accurate, but as long as they look right it will be difficult to prove it never happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenwall Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I wonder if Dapol would consider producing a GWR 14xx/48xx Auto tank? It would fall into the small engine policy and provide some nice little limited edition issues like 1401 for example. Not a wish list, just a suggestion. Great Western, Wouldn't that be nice! As would an upscaled 22. Who knows, these may be the subject of Dapol Dave's 'under wraps' developments, though in truth we do not even know if any of those are O gauge. I suspect Dapol will need to see a return, or at least a realistic promise of a return on their considerable investment before ploughing in further capital. This is likely to mean variations on a theme - other region milk tanks, or the roro version for example, or ringing the changes on the extensive 08/terrier versions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I wonder if Dapol would consider producing a GWR 14xx/48xx Auto tank? It would fall into the small engine policy and provide some nice little limited edition issues like 1401 for example. Not a wish list, just a suggestion. Great Western, They are already available from Tower Models. One of the very strange things about 7mm is that there aren't many RTR locos, but incredible duplication between manufacturers - A4s, A3s, Jubilees, Duchess, etc etc. As 4mm have shown there is an enormous number of possibilities. The GWR has a decent range of smaller locos suitable for branchlines - Lionheart for example with the Pannier and 2-6-2T, but try finding a small loco suitable for LNER branchlines! Please, lets think more broadly about what it would be useful to see being introduced. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenwall Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 They are already available from Tower Models. One of the very strange things about 7mm is that there aren't many RTR locos, but incredible duplication between manufacturers - A4s, A3s, Jubilees, Duchess, etc etc. As 4mm have shown there is an enormous number of possibilities. The GWR has a decent range of smaller locos suitable for branchlines - Lionheart for example with the Pannier and 2-6-2T, but try finding a small loco suitable for LNER branchlines! Please, lets think more broadly about what it would be useful to see being introduced. Paul Bartlett Not for much longer. The San Cheng Factory that makes them closes in the the new year. Plus brass and RTR plastic are two different beasties. However I agree with your comments about other areas of modelling, Dapol are to be commended for running with the Southern - not so long ago (oo years) there was a real dearth of southern models. If one thinks Dapol's entry into the RTR O gauge area is a good thing (and I do) they have to start somewhere, and we have to hope that they are sufficiently successful to spread into other areas eventually - even if that is via GWR(WR). Now about those GE models ..... (raised on GE, grandad worked on LMS, uni on WR and lived on SR - I draw the line at foreign, I have to) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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