Dapol 2012/13 (and now 2014) O gauge range discussion thread

[gardenwall]

Depends on the financial advantage... I could probably use six but couldn't afford to buy them all in one go, and if I was only saving (say) a fiver per wagon, I'd rather just take the hit and buy them when I can and spread the cost. As the price is almost double the Slater's kit, that would be a more troublesome, but cost-effective, option if I wanted undecorated ones.

 

Most milk tankers outside of preservation you couldn't see the livery anyway, because they got very filthy very quickly - and it seems a shame to buy a nice decorated one just to airbrush weather it to within an inch of its life...

 

Double the cost?? after the price rise due in December the Slaters Kit will be very nearly the projected discount cost for the finished Dapol tanker. I want some dirtied ones - I'll be dirtying the RTR with none of the file/filling to get the tank smooth.

[cromptonnut]

I hadn't kept up with what the prices might be - the last I heard the tanks rrp was about £80 (of course most dealers will offer something off of that) so if what you say is right then the kits become a far less attractive proposition... it then goes down to how easy the Dapol ones will be to dismantle before putting through the paintshop.

 

I guess once they become available, we'll see what the prices come down to - and I guess I'd better start saving up already.

 

I do hope that the Dapol range isn't short-lived, as with the higher cost of O gauge it's going to take me a while to get hold of sufficient cash to get the six I want and I'd hate them to be unavailable quickly like many O gauge rtr things have been so far.

[gardenwall]

 

I do hope that the Dapol range isn't short-lived, as with the higher cost of O gauge it's going to take me a while to get hold of sufficient cash to get the six I want and I'd hate them to be unavailable quickly like many O gauge rtr things have been so far.

 

Likewise, I hope the Dapol range continues successfully. Regardless of scale there does seem to be a trend towards buy it when (or before) it is released or miss out. If the model is sufficiently popular then further releases with number/livery variations may ensue -which for the purposes of producing dirtied milk tankers would not matter too much. The silver lining is that it does look as though there may be tooling options to produce slightly different models and rarely were the rakes of the real thing uniform.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi,

 

Likewise I wish Dapol well too, yet I hope that, for all of our sakes, 7mm RTR doesnt get subjected to the frothing and scrabbling for releases that other RTR scales and gauges seem to be subjected to?!

 

Perhaps Dapol Dave could confirm how many 08's and 6 wheel tanks are to be manufactured or released - if that helps to put minds at rest.

 

I note that Dapol seem very quiet about the issue surrounding solebars etc on the wooden bodied wagons?!

 

In addition some have mentioned - elsewhere - how well a fixed chassis 6 wheel vehicle will ride/perform in this scale and gauge - even on 4 wheel vehicles a.n.other manufacturer has introduced 'compensation' on their wagons so as to overcome 'issues' with such, although their chassis appears to be manufactuered from diecast and would, I imagine, work well w/o compensation (which retails at approx £40 a pop and works very well with compensation) - will Dapol being doing the same, for these larger vehicles?

 

ATVB

 

CME.

[DapolDave]

Hi CME,

 

sorry no, we will not divulge production quantities i'm afraid as it is commenrcially sensitive information for the time being.

However i'd say that we will produce how ever many we get orders for plus some extra for those who didnt pre-order.

 

We'll also, line in OO and N gauge revisit popular decorations with alternate numbers, plus, if needs be, further new decorations.

 

As for the 5,7 &8 plank wagons, did i miss a question regarding an 'issue'? sorry not meant to, perhaps you can copy and paste it again here for me to save me searching?

 

The 6 wheel milk tanks will not have compensation as at the mmoent testing using Peco track and pointwork seems to 'point' (sorry) to them running well on it.

Have i missed something here as well regarding 6 wheel vehicles in O guage and problems with running?

 

Is O gauge track laid to the same standard as OO track, or is it finer with tollerances etc because of the size?

I think help is required please?

 

cheers

dave

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi CME,

 

sorry no, we will not divulge production quantities i'm afraid as it is commenrcially sensitive information for the time being.

However i'd say that we will produce how ever many we get orders for plus some extra for those who didnt pre-order.

 

We'll also, line in OO and N gauge revisit popular decorations with alternate numbers, plus, if needs be, further new decorations.

 

As for the 5,7 &8 plank wagons, did i miss a question regarding an 'issue'? sorry not meant to, perhaps you can copy and paste it again here for me to save me searching?

 

The 6 wheel milk tanks will not have compensation as at the mmoent testing using Peco track and pointwork seems to 'point' (sorry) to them running well on it.

Have i missed something here as well regarding 6 wheel vehicles in O guage and problems with running?

 

Is O gauge track laid to the same standard as OO track, or is it finer with tollerances etc because of the size?

I think help is required please?

 

cheers

dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks for clarification - for all of us.

 

It didnt occur to me that quantities of release models would be CS - yet you guys obviously have your reasons.

 

Good to hear that there will be some slack in the system plus releases of others in different liveries/with different numbers - personally as the qty of models sold may be less in 7mm scale, caution is wise.

 

Re the 5/7 plank wagons there were comments made here/there/elsewhere - plus viewing of the models - that the pre-production models seemed to be at odds with regard to sole bars (era of) matching up to the appropriate bodywork (I think that Mr. Bartlett may have contributed to comments made on RM Web - but hold me to that as I cant keep up with all that is on here anyway LOL!!).

 

I agree, the industry standard for trackwork, in 7mm scale, is currently PECO, and as with all things 'baseboard', track laying can make or break a layout, yet there are other considerations in the larger scales and gauges which have an impact on good running - hence basic compensation on Parkside kits, Lionheart RTR (although many Slaters kits don't come with such yet there are after-market 'W' Irons/springing kits readily available for their kits) - one of which, for 7mm scale, is venturing out into the garden with 7mm scale railways. In the real world, outdoors, mother nature loves to challenge the railway modeller, where best laid plans - and track - can get challenged. The longer the vehicle - especially those with 6 wheels - the more challenges there can be. Most 7mm stock ends up with end-float and 'slop' which can, in a crude way, help of course, it is all down to tolerances, the extra weight, size, and bulk in the larger scales when compared to, eg. 2mm and 4mm scale. Having said this, if one is aware, of these issues and works to constant standards, with four wheel stock, then one can, just about, get, away with rigid/fixed axles. The GOG standards are a good starting point, yet many of those who build 6 wheel stock in 7mm, so it would seem, end up having to compensate and provide additional 'passive' steering when the vehicle is above a certain size.

 

Minimum radius considerations are also key - the GOG recommends a minimum of 6', yet IMHHO, many modellers, in 'modern' homes will look, I would guess, to tweak such to 4' to 4.5', so yet more considerations, especially if a RTR manufacturer wishes to sell to modellers of 'OO' (sic) so as to encourage a move up in scale and gauge.

 

I for one hope that Dapol/your 6 wheel milk tanks are a success, hence the above comments, I have, as yet, to build, any of the 6 wheel tanker kits, perhaps those who have may wish to contribute their comments and ideas too?

 

Will Dapol be fitting brass (Top Hat) bearings, PTFE bearings or other to any of it's rolling stock? Because with the extra weight and size of 7mm RTR (or with the the modeller adding extra weight) then wear and tear can become an issue as the models themselves end up doing a real job of work, which the smaller scales often don't (even if their 'mileage' is higher).

 

I hope that the above helps - thanks for replying.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

[cromptonnut]

Unfortunately "pre-ordering" is a big problem for many people, including me, particularly on a previously unavailable range.

 

As I said, I may require five or six. There is no way I am going to risk something in the region of £400 on a range that so far has had little media coverage.

 

I understand your reasons for working solely on the basis of "pre-orders" - but that doesn't help people like me who want to see the item first, then find we can only purchase half of what we want becase everywhere is now "out of stock" with no idea when, or if, more are coming out.

 

A preorder gamble on a £10 wagon, maybe. £60+? The wife would kill me.

[DapolDave]

I refer the gentleman to the answer i gave some moments before "plus some extra for those who didnt pre-order".

 

cheers

Dave

 

Hi CME,

 

Thanks a lot your 6 wheel comments have helped a lot and i will look out for potential pitfalls here.

Much appreciated

cheers

Dave

[cromptonnut]

Will "some" extra be enough? Who knows. Chances are that, with most things, by the time I've saved up enough money, they're out of stock - and asking a model shop to keep several hundred pounds worth of "stuff" back for months is unlikely to be received favourably.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

I refer the gentleman to the answer i gave some moments before "plus some extra for those who didnt pre-order".

 

cheers

Dave

 

Hi CME,

 

Thanks a lot your 6 wheel comments have helped a lot and i will look out for potential pitfalls here.

Much appreciated

cheers

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

You are very welcome - such helps us all.

 

I have added some more comments to the above POST - between answering the dog and bone and eating lunch, sorry I was a slow writer!

 

ATVB

 

CME

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Will "some" extra be enough? Who knows. Chances are that, with most things, by the time I've saved up enough money, they're out of stock - and asking a model shop to keep several hundred pounds worth of "stuff" back for months is unlikely to be received favourably.

 

Hi CN,

 

I can see your point(s)- this is the possible downside of RTR in 7mm.

 

Personally I think, if common sense is applied, there is enough business for RTR manufacturers, Cottage industry suppliers et al in this scale and gauge.

 

It will be hard for the likes of Dapol to gauge (no pun etc.) sales of RTR in 7mm scale - I am not sure what production strategies Dapol use (Batch or otherwise) and how many models tooling can cater for before such is worn out/un-viable - and experience will only come for them in time (I would guess the numbers of the membership of DEMU the GOG et al. +/- may be a guideline for starters).

 

As I said before, I for one, don't want to get involved in the 'scrabbling and frothing' that surrounds some other scales and gauges - that would ruin the hobby for me - yet I do not wish to miss out either. I think that most buyers will want 3-6 milk tanks, yet will only buy one or two at a time, unless one is a music mogul perhaps LOL!!

 

Manufacturers also have to realise that 7mm, even when sold at more cost effective prices, is at a higher price point than other scales and gauges and despite what the UK govt says, we are in the midst of huge financial challenges, with cash (disposable income) becoming a scarce resource in it's own right - but once again, common sense will win out, if applied.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

[DapolDave]

Hi CME,

 

Yes all Dapol's O gauge wagons announced to date (5,7&8 plank, Pill Box Brake Van and Milk tank) have fitted brass bearings within the insides of the axleboxes.

cheers

Dave

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi CME,

 

Yes all Dapol's O gauge wagons announced to date (5,7&8 plank, Pill Box Brake Van and Milk tank) have fitted brass bearings within the insides of the axleboxes.

cheers

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks - very wise move as one manufacturer has, in the past, relied purely on ABS plastic to act as 'bearings/journals' for pinpoint axles.

 

I think that there maybe some merit in using PTFE for bearings ala the late, great, Jack Ray. Such means that even with a large/heavy train, when fitted with PTFE bearings, the loco is almost 'running light'. This then means that smaller motors can be used and if using DCC, lower rated, thus more cost effective decoders can be used also...

 

Thanks again - I am now AFK as this is becoming like ping pong!

 

ATVB

 

CME

[thirty2a]

Could it be possible with this uptake of O Gauge to see some making it's way to ModelZone? that might improve the chances of us who like to have a look at stuff in the flesh before we buy and help mainstream O Gauging.

[DapolDave]

I'm afraid The terms of dealing with Modelzone are too onerous for us to consider cutting margins that much.

Sorry

Dave

[Nick]

When are photos of the Class 08 likely to be available? I have seen CAD images but would have thought that some pilot shots would have been available by now given the anticipated release date.

 

I hope I am not breaking any rules by asking!

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[CME and Bottlewasher]

When are photos of the Class 08 likely to be available? I have seen CAD images but would have thought that some pilot shots would have been available by now given the anticipated release date.

 

I hope I am not breaking any rules by asking!

 

Cheers

 

Nick

 

Hi Nick,

 

Has a firmed up delivery date now been announced?

 

ATB

 

CME

[hmrspaul]

When are photos of the Class 08 likely to be available? I have seen CAD images but would have thought that some pilot shots would have been available by now given the anticipated release date.

 

I hope I am not breaking any rules by asking!

 

Cheers

 

Nick

 

You are..... we have said we don't want frothing on 7mm threads.

 

Paul Bartlett

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi!

 

This one is a follow up for 'Dapol Dave'

 

Re six wheel - 7mm scale - vehicles there is a very useful and interesting article of how to set such up by Neil Burgess entitled 'Six Wheel Simplicity' published in Railway Modeller (May 2011 pp 366-368).

 

One point that Neil makes is that whilst on a 6 wheel vehicle - of length - the leading and trailing (first and third) wheel sets, if turning e.g to the LEFT, need to move in that direction (LEFT) then, in effect, the middle wheel set, needs to go to the RIGHT, in other words the wheel sets need to move in relation to each other, with adequate side play etc......

 

I am not sure how such applies to the new Dapol RTR tanks - and the use of wider flanges et al. all helps in this regard - and please dont think that I am trying to teach granny to suck eggs, yet 6 wheelers do require a little extra thought in the larger scales and gauges, especially as IMHO, many modellers will try and undercut, out of requirement/need, the GOG ruling 6ft radius.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

[Jack]

With regard to the forthcoming RCH wagons ... I noticed Model Rail's review commented on the shiney 3-links and cross rod.

 

Why haven't they been blackened when ... a) so much excellent attention to detail has been displayed elsewhere and ... B) they got abit of a slating for shiney wheels on previous n gauge steam locos?

 

Still looking forward to mine, and it won't take much to put peco 3-links on, just seemed a bit odd.

[hmrspaul]

With regard to the forthcoming RCH wagons ... I noticed Model Rail's review commented on the shiney 3-links and cross rod.

 

Why haven't they been blackened when ... a) so much excellent attention to detail has been displayed elsewhere and ... B) they got abit of a slating for shiney wheels on previous n gauge steam locos?

 

Still looking forward to mine, and it won't take much to put peco 3-links on, just seemed a bit odd.

 

What MR should have said is that the cross rod should not be there. PT wagons had independent brakes - two V hangers either side of the solebar which are joined by a thick bar, but nothing across the wagon - see http://PaulBartlett....poetc/e3e5753e4 We have discussed this before about these wagons. Just snip it off!

 

A reason for this, is that they had drop doors in the floor, so could not have such a rod. It was only when BR abandoned having the drop doors on the steel mineral wagons that Morton brake was introduced, which had brakes on only one side of the wagon, but they could be worked from either side with a rod connecting them across the wagon.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Jack]

What MR should have said is that the cross rod should not be there. PT wagons had independent brakes - two V hangers either side of the solebar which are joined by a thick bar, but nothing across the wagon - see http://PaulBartlett....poetc/e3e5753e4 We have discussed this before about these wagons. Just snip it off!

 

A reason for this, is that they had drop doors in the floor, so could not have such a rod. It was only when BR abandoned having the drop doors on the steel mineral wagons that Morton brake was introduced, which had brakes on only one side of the wagon, but they could be worked from either side with a rod connecting them across the wagon.

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Giving them a snip should be easier than blackening!! Is it just the metal bar that needs to come off, or should the rest of the break gear be somehow modified? What about changes for original single sided breaking?

 

Thanks.

[boxbrownie]

Hi CME,

 

sorry no, we will not divulge production quantities i'm afraid as it is commenrcially sensitive information for the time being.

 

 

cheers

dave

 

Hmm, somebody ought to tell your Joel, according to Tower Models website they spoke to him and your only producing 150 of each wagon!

 

I must admit, myslef along with plenty of others find it difficult to justify pre-ordering on the promise of the item being of quality and value.

 

Once I get my mits on one I am sure I will be buying probably at least 10 or more and a few tankers also, let alone chomping at the bit for the 08 to be released, but pre-order? nah.......even if it means missing out on them, this is only a hobby after all, I'll buy an alternative either kit or built. If Dapol are in fact restricting production rates so much then I do not think they have gauged the spending power of middle aged and older modellers who have been waiting all thier lives for someone to release RTR 7mm, just look at the success of the Heljan diesels.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hmm, somebody ought to tell your Joel, according to Tower Models website they spoke to him and your only producing 150 of each wagon!

 

I must admit, myslef along with plenty of others find it difficult to justify pre-ordering on the promise of the item being of quality and value.

 

Once I get my mits on one I am sure I will be buying probably at least 10 or more and a few tankers also, let alone chomping at the bit for the 08 to be released, but pre-order? nah.......even if it means missing out on them, this is only a hobby after all, I'll buy an alternative either kit or built. If Dapol are in fact restricting production rates so much then I do not think they have gauged the spending power of middle aged and older modellers who have been waiting all thier lives for someone to release RTR 7mm, just look at the success of the Heljan diesels.

 

Hi,

 

By and large I agree - good comments.

 

Several issues though. Tower seem to proclaim certain things eg prior to a new release - as the font of all knowledge of all things O gauge - yet I have come to learn that such are not always the case - clarification from Dapol Dave would be helpful in this instance though.

 

Yes there maybe spending power for the 'middle aged', yet the markets for products requiring disposable income are severly challenged at this time, so I would have thought that Dapol have to be sensible in regard to quantities released - all also depends on their production methods and strategies etc too etc etc. Being open and up front about follow up releases would be helpful here too.

 

I also understand that a pre-order does not alway require a deposit/down-payment and if prior to release one wishes to cancel such 'intent' then one can, 'intent' is not a contract to procure.......

 

On another subject re the 25T Pillbox, I have read in one mag that both left and right hand ducket versions will be availbale as will chassis plating (a BR modification?) etc. yet it would be nice to know, from Dapol DAVE, if the various planking types will also be available ala the prototype and Bachmann/GF versions?

 

ATVB

 

CME

[DapolDave]

Hi chaps,

 

Forgive this but i'm afraid in this instance the 'gen' is correct. We ahv only produced 150 of each of the first releases.

 

Simply put, this was because we had an unknown quantity and market (to us that is) and decided to 'dip' our toes rather than belly flop (as i do everytime i go off a diving board) into the pool big time.

Now, as all the BR ones are now pre-sold to stockists i will hold my hand up and say we made a mistake (lots of private owner left though, which possibly tells another story), and as such we are doing as much as we can to get more to the market.

 

However rather than just produce more of the same, we are doing the BR ones again but with slightly different markings and running numbers, and we hope this 'extra' batch will be out for Warley in not very soon afterwards.

It's worth noting here that the O gauge wagons are made jointly in both China and the UK, which gives us the flexibility to produce special comissions , or, in this case, a re-run of a popular decoration/type of wagon.

 

As for the brake van, there will be left and right duckets, 2 roof styles, 3 platform styles (not including the tanks on one end), 2 and 3 window types and well as minor chassis variations, planking changes (where possible) plus a working tail lamp one end too.

As for information going out to third parties, i have found in the past that a tight ship isnt always that tight, and as such we will keep things internal until we are ready to tell the public from now on i think.

 

Cheers

Dave