Karhedron Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 has anybody ever tried adding wallpaper paste powder to the ballast mix and then spraying with water after brushing the stones and powder into place ? No but I have talked to other people who have tried this. One of the problems is that wallpaper paste is not really strong enough to reliably hold stone chips in place. Might work for ballast that is not stone based (ground cork or nut shells). A simmilar suggestion is to use a powdered adhesive called cascamite. This is strong enough to hold almost anything but will set absolutely rock solid so make sure you really have the ballast where you want it before you apply the water. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I use Klear floor polish. No need to wet anything first and it dries in about an hour. Just apply neat with an eye dropper. Does it not give the ballast a rather glossy look when it dries or do you add a matting agent? Noe other thing is that some people suggest adding detergent as a wetting agent to the water spray and dilute PVA. Another tip I have heard is to use a few drops of isopropyl alcohol (available from chemists and maplins among opthre places). Apparently this is even better at breaking up the surface tension. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Moria Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 pipettes of various types and shapes can be got from a chemist, and sometimes one with a curve on the end really helps. I converted on this layout to the Klear method as well... having done 5 or 6 layouts with the PVA and then spent ages chipping dried glue out of pointwork where it misted in and congealed, the Klear method was a dream. Nothing in the wrong place, no pointwork glued up and no track cleaning needed afterwards and thats on deep ballasted peco code 55 N. It's strong enough that theres absolutely no need for any form of track pins to hold it down anywhere, and a couple of pins which were inserted to hold alignment during track laying have now been removed and theres no glossing at all, it's like it dissapeared completely. No wetting agent required either, even on woodland scenics ballast that tends to float away in anything.. just add the neat Klear to the outside edges of the ballast and watch it suck itselfe into every grain. Regards Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted December 23, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2009 Tried 'Klear'recently for ballasting on Matford's rebuilding. AFAIAC I'll not use the old PVA method again. It all went so well and looked fine when it was dry. I used it neat, with an eye dropper and it tended to get 'sucked up' very well without 'puddling' of the ballast, which tends to occur with the PVA/water sprayed with washing up liquid method. One thing I did notice was, as previously mentioned, that natural stone ballast can puddle with the Klear, but with the 'organic' Woodland Scenics stuff, it soaks up nicely. It does dry a little darker perhaps than the PVA method, but I can live with that. The most important thing to me is getting the ballast nice and neat and level in the sleeper beds, and compacted. To this end I made a little hand tamper out of a small bit of stripwood, the same size as the sleeper bed with a cocktail stick attached. Before adding the Klear I give the rails a few little taps to vibrate some of the ballast granules off the sleepers. Also one of my pet hates is seeing ballast all over the sleepers. I know that it occurs on the real railway, but to me it never looks right in the smaller scales. When all is dry, finish off some general weathering with powders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 That looks very good. I think I will have to give Klear a try. Is it still available or is there some replacement product now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I love that mini tamper you've made there John . Must admit I did get a little pooling of ballast with Klear in my attempts but I think a little more practice with the pipette would have solved it. With full height sleepers though I can tamp it down nicely anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted December 23, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2009 I agree with Jim about Johnson's Klear. Isn't this the stuff that there was a long thread on the old RMWeb because you can't actually get it any more...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Nice. (I think I used a bit of clingfilm for the 'interface' barrier.) With PVA, I use a cheap kitchen sieve, gently shaken about 6" above the track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Hiya No it doesn't (go shiney), but even if it did wouldn't you weather the track anyway? The above pic show's Klear secured ballast as it dries before weathering. HTH Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinburgh Junction Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 Flippin heck guys! So many of you know whats best. I've tried the 4 parts water to 1 part PVA, and by god that works! Its a mistly solution, and I've sprayed it loads, and from the looks, its working! I shall report tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 One of the track component manufacturers [C&L ] recommend using a latex glue [Copydex or similar] rather than PVA as it doesn't set hard. For misting the ballast I use an cooking oil spray [like a pump up aerosol can] as it gives a finer mist. Plant sprays I've always found tend to spray out such large drops that the ballast is disturbed. Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 How easy is it to remove track ballasted with klear? I think the traditional method you just soak the track but maybe not so easy with klear- or is it? cheers mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 23, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2009 Art shops have very nice plastic pipettes as artists use them for accurately mixing paint. I paid 50p each for those I bought at a local artists' supplies/craft shop. They also have dropper bottles. Mike 100 for roughly ??8.00 on eBay - look for disposable pipettes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I'm going to be doing ballasting soon. So a bit of googling produced the rebranding of Johnson's Klear as Pledge Multisurface Wax (and it's the same name now in the USA, apparently) http://www.mysuperma..._Wax_750ml.html [Edit] I must sound like a floor polish anorak! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinburgh Junction Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 Right... the 4:1 seems to be working.... I await patiently... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Mind and give it plenty time to dry out fully. It may seem dry on top but could still be soft underneath. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinburgh Junction Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 I am aware of this problem, but thanks for reminding me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivers Finelines Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Well I've just been to my Dads and found a full bottle of this Johnson Klear, it's no longer there, I stolen it for research matters!! Going to give it try on a test piece, see what happens. For all the ballest I've ever laid, I've only ever used the PVA and Water Mix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium eldavo Posted December 24, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 24, 2009 I believe you should be able to remove Klear using an ammonia solution or one of the window cleaners that are basically just that. It's what's recommended for cleaning the floor prior to retreating with Klear. Mind you I haven't had the need to try it (yet). Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.